22LR ammo comparison in Anschütz 1416D (12x shootout)

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Re: 22LR ammo comparison (12x shootout)

Post by bigfellascott » 10 Jun 2014, 7:01 am

5Tom wrote:That .22lr resize die looks interesting. Might look into it a bit more


It does look interesting hey, I don't know what they cost (did send a email to the address provided but as yet haven't heard anything back), If you do get one let us know how it all goes and what you think etc, to me its not a bad way to make cheap ammo shoot better and as I said if your into shooting targets a lot it would probably work out cheaper over time to buy the cheaper stuff and resize it and get same/similar results to using the expensive stuff.

cheers
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Re: 22LR ammo comparison (12x shootout)

Post by Westy » 10 Jun 2014, 7:32 am

bigfellascott wrote:It does look interesting hey, I don't know what they cost (did send a email to the address provided but as yet haven't heard anything back), If you do get one let us know how it all goes and what you think etc, to me its not a bad way to make cheap ammo shoot better and as I said if your into shooting targets a lot it would probably work out cheaper over time to buy the cheaper stuff and resize it and get same/similar results to using the expensive stuff.

cheers


Talked to the older brother yesterday and he said they were a no go in bench rest comp shooting as the bullets have been modified.

Might still be ok for silhouette?
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Re: 22LR ammo comparison (12x shootout)

Post by pucker » 10 Jun 2014, 9:50 am

Westy wrote:Talked to the older brother yesterday and he said they were a no go in bench rest comp shooting as the bullets have been modified.


Odd, how different can you make a .22lr round really?
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Re: 22LR ammo comparison (12x shootout)

Post by bigfellascott » 10 Jun 2014, 10:04 am

Westy wrote:
bigfellascott wrote:
5Tom wrote:That .22lr resize die looks interesting. Might look into it a bit more


It does look interesting hey, I don't know what they cost (did send a email to the address provided but as yet haven't heard anything back), If you do get one let us know how it all goes and what you think etc, to me its not a bad way to make cheap ammo shoot better and as I said if your into shooting targets a lot it would probably work out cheaper over time to buy the cheaper stuff and resize it and get same/similar results to using the expensive stuff.

cheers

Talked to the older brother yesterday and he said they were a no go in bench rest comp shooting as the bullets have been modified might still be a.o.k for Shilloute?????


That's a shame mate, still it would be good for those who like just shooting groups for fun etc and even hunting I guess (seems it can make some pretty decent hollow point ammo out of solids). :D
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Re: 22LR ammo comparison (12x shootout)

Post by 5Tom » 10 Jun 2014, 10:55 am

I normally shoot to hunt so if it improves accuracy, I can't see why not.

I've already tried free-floating and a few different types of ammo.
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Re: 22LR ammo comparison (12x shootout)

Post by Hilux2003 » 28 Jun 2014, 8:37 pm

SSAA benchrest Part C IRB revised 2013 No:8
Section 5.2 Ammunition: must be of lead projectile type in .2LR, commercially available from regular oultets.

Does not say you cannot "modify it yourself" or 'uniform' the rounds!

This is dependant on what "benchrest comp" rules we are talking about.
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Re: 22LR ammo comparison (12x shootout)

Post by on_one_wheel » 28 Jun 2014, 10:32 pm

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Re: 22LR ammo comparison (12x shootout)

Post by veep » 29 Jun 2014, 8:41 am

That guy must have put some serious hours into his 22 ammo.
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Re: 22LR ammo comparison (12x shootout)

Post by Monty » 29 Jun 2014, 8:42 am

Hours? Days more like it.
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Re: 22LR ammo comparison (12x shootout)

Post by Oldbloke » 10 Jan 2015, 3:37 pm

Thanks Lorgar. I found this comparison on the net. There must be 40 different brands of ammo to choose from.

http://www.accurateshooter.com/guns-of- ... ison-test/
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Re: 22LR ammo comparison (12x shootout)

Post by bigfellascott » 10 Jan 2015, 4:12 pm

Oldbloke wrote:Thanks Lorgar. I found this comparison on the net. There must be 40 different brands of ammo to choose from.

http://www.accurateshooter.com/guns-of- ... ison-test/


I don't think I'd take too much out of those results, have a look at the target rifle that was used! :lol: quite simply it is a matter of testing the diff ammo in your particular rifle to see what it likes, they are all diff and somewhere in amongst the ammo range will be one your's like to shoot the best, as to whether that is the best for hunting or target work well that's something you'll have to work out for yourself. :thumbsup:
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Re: 22LR ammo comparison (12x shootout)

Post by Oldbloke » 10 Jan 2015, 4:58 pm

5Tom wrote:I got a Norinco JW15 .22 and it's a 2 - 2.5 MOA shooter.. I've mostly tried Winchester powerpoints 40gr and 42gr, Super speed and Sub-Sonics, CCI, Bushman and Highland. Doesn't really seem to get much better :(

Looks like I got more ammo to try.


5Tom. a few things you might like to check-the experts here should be able provide even better info than me.

Check the bedding is close fitting and no "high" spots like screws that are too long touching the barrel.
Try floating the barrel by putting a piece of cardboard or similar material under the front action of just in front of the chamber
Try putting some upward pressure on the barrel by placing a piece of cardboard or similar between the stock & barrel near the tip of the fore end
Check the barrel by first cleaning and then slugging it. Should be uniform
Check the last inch or two of the rifling. This is the critical part of the barrel. Try using a magnifying glass or bore scope or otoscope
Obviously check the scope by exchanging it with another (mounts too)

Hope this helps
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Re: 22LR ammo comparison (12x shootout)

Post by sally-bee » 12 Jan 2015, 12:09 pm

bigfellascott wrote:have a look at the target rifle that was used! :lol:


Bleiker is the bees-knees huh?
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Re: 22LR ammo comparison (12x shootout)

Post by bigfellascott » 12 Jan 2015, 12:26 pm

sally-bee wrote:
bigfellascott wrote:have a look at the target rifle that was used! :lol:


Bleiker is the bees-knees huh?


buggered if I know, I'm not into target shooting - so have no real idea of what's good or bad in the target shooting game.

My point is it was a target rifle doing the shooting, hardly worth taking much notice of in the real world of the hunting type firearms. :thumbsup:
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Re: 22LR ammo comparison (12x shootout)

Post by bigfellascott » 12 Jan 2015, 3:41 pm

Image

The wife just came home with a brick of these for me - what a good woman! :clap:

https://www.winchesteraustralia.com.au/ ... 1414556088
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Re: 22LR ammo comparison (12x shootout)

Post by Warrigul » 13 Jan 2015, 10:14 am

bigfellascott wrote:Image

The wife just came home with a brick of these for me - what a good woman! :clap:

https://www.winchesteraustralia.com.au/ ... 1414556088



Old reliables,

I prefer subsonics,

I use these exclusively now in my spotlighting rifle, I did try another brand and they were accurate but didn't expand as well.

In my s**ty old savage they will group better than a 5cent piece over a rest at 50m and I can usually manage around an inch off hand.

On the range (different rifle but still a savage) my choice for field rifle, 3P and 2P is CCI standard. Over a rest always a little better than a 5cent piece and around $45 a brick. Though I did get some really cheap Highland standard target that is quite exceptional.

On the range price is always the driving factor for me as I have two kids and pistols as well so a brick a day is the minimum normally.
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Re: 22LR ammo comparison (12x shootout)

Post by bigfellascott » 13 Jan 2015, 10:56 am

Yeah they go good in the Daughters Savage and my Brno Mod 2 - those CCI Standards are bloody good out of the Savages hey, the Daughters one shoots like your's too, I really enjoy shooting it.
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Re: 22LR ammo comparison (12x shootout)

Post by sally-bee » 14 Jan 2015, 9:53 am

bigfellascott wrote:My point is it was a target rifle doing the shooting, hardly worth taking much notice of in the real world of the hunting type firearms. :thumbsup:


Yeah ok :)
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Re: 22LR ammo comparison (12x shootout)

Post by Gwion » 18 Jan 2015, 9:03 pm

Westy wrote:Talked to the older brother yesterday and he said they were a no go in bench rest comp shooting as the bullets have been modified.

Might still be ok for silhouette?


Good for practice. I have one for uniforming the hollow points in some ammo and improving el cheapo stuff for plinking. Makes a noticeable difference. Mainly works by uniforming bullet diameter to 0.225" and there by standarising pressure somewhat (sealing bore same every time). If you take the pressing too far it makes it all worse, so there is some testing involved to get it right.

Planning to do a bit more testing with the T-bolt and a mate's new Zasty soon, so will update if you're interested.

Cheers.
1FedChamp-HollowPoints.jpg
Fed Champ hollow points. Left to right, unpressed, with the right hollow point, with too much hollow point, with the right flat, with too much flat.
1FedChamp-HollowPoints.jpg (255.46 KiB) Viewed 8453 times

2FactHolWaltzHol25m.jpg
These are shot in my old Sportco. Doesn't like the round much but gives a little idea of what the press does to performance of this round in this rifle.
2FactHolWaltzHol25m.jpg (214.32 KiB) Viewed 8453 times

3RecFlatOverFlat.jpg
Tope group is with suggested flat tip size, other spray is with the tip flattened too much.
3RecFlatOverFlat.jpg (133.22 KiB) Viewed 8453 times
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Re: 22LR ammo comparison (12x shootout)

Post by bigfellascott » 19 Jan 2015, 6:28 am

Interesting G, so do you think they are worth it?
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Re: 22LR ammo comparison (12x shootout)

Post by Gwion » 19 Jan 2015, 1:49 pm

bigfellascott wrote:Interesting G, so do you think they are worth it?


Funny you should ask, BigFella. Been pondering that very thing this morning. Was going to test more ammo in the mates Zasty and my T-bolt but when he came over our first groups had gone completely to poo. I lost all confidence to do any reliable testing and just spent hours wasting good ammo trying to figure out why i couldn't make a decent group with either rifle when they had both grouped well with the same ammo last week!!??!! Screwed my confidence so much i even made a fluff session out of load testing my 223rem. Got some usable results but even though it was a calm day with light breezes, i got better groups in the last session in 17km/h changable winds!!!???!!!

Anyway, that's a different story.

So, are the Waltz dies worth it? Maybe, maybe not, depending on what you want it for.

Improving hunting ammo (hollow points): with really cheap stuff like Fed Champ, that has almost no hollow point, uniforming the length (and flat tip to 0.130ish") and then poking your own standardised hollow point in the end makes a marked difference to the ammo as it does improve consistent bullet diameter and accuracy. BUT. Anything with a substantial hollow point already is not worth trying to press for diameter because all you do is put a huge flat point if you want to change the diameter from 0.221 (not uncommon) to 0.223-0.225. On ammo like this it's hit and miss and i'm getting the impression that the only use for the die here is to uniform the hollow point for terminal performance, as some of these rounds have extremely varied points on them and i wouldn't trust them to open up properly (pin holed quite a number of Win Power Point 40s).

Improving target ammo: i think that's where it comes into its own. Cheaper solid ammo that shoots ok can be made to shoot quite well by pressing the point to the recommended flat. You can then turn it into Hunting ammo by pressing a good reliable hollow point into it. This way you can shoot target practice and hunt with the same round, once you've buggerised around getting all your pressing procedure right.

In short, i'd say for a lot of people it would be too much hassle and out lay (cost me about $160 landed, from memory). For others who enjoy playing around with stuff and finding that cheap ammo they can take from acceptable to reliable it is well worth it. Also for target practice if you go through a crap load of ammo (think i just shot about 200 rounds this morning), it's worth it.

I really want to test more before making a recommendation to anyone but i'm not disappointed that i bought mine. I can turn the Fed Champ Hollow Points into an acceptable round for both my 22s, which is great for practicing off hand and "snap" shooting and it's less than 1/2 the price of Win PP42max (in my Sportco) and almost 1/3 the price of CCI Velocitor (in my Tbolt). So, two more bricks of Fed Champ Hollows and it will have saved me the money it cost.

So, to answer your question, Scott. I dunno yet! LOL!
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Re: 22LR ammo comparison (12x shootout)

Post by Gwion » 19 Jan 2015, 2:09 pm

PS> i finally got both shooting well enough to go after some bunnies at his place tonight; had to swap the cheap arsed scope he had on the Zasty with the scope off my Sportco to do it, though! He only put it on at Xmas time. Waste of time and ammo!!!
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Re: 22LR ammo comparison (12x shootout)

Post by bigfellascott » 19 Jan 2015, 2:13 pm

$160! ouch, I'm thinking its really not needed for my use, the Savage we have shoots very tight groups with the CCI Standards and almost as good with the PP Subs so I doubt we would benefit from using the die.

So those groups you posted above are from the T-bolt and Zasty? sorry just had another look and it looks like they are from the sportco. :D
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Re: 22LR ammo comparison (12x shootout)

Post by jackles » 20 Jan 2015, 1:18 pm

Gwion wrote:Mainly works by uniforming bullet diameter to 0.225" and there by standarising pressure somewhat (sealing bore same every time). If you take the pressing too far it makes it all worse, so there is some testing involved to get it right.


How does using the uniformer work? Just like setting a seating die?

So if too deep you ruin the ammo, is that right?
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Re: 22LR ammo comparison (12x shootout)

Post by Gwion » 20 Jan 2015, 1:59 pm

jackles wrote:
How does using the uniformer work? Just like setting a seating die?

So if too deep you ruin the ammo, is that right?


Yeah, sort of. If you press it too much it deforms the bullet. To set it you just adjust it the same as a seating die but it doesn't push the bullet into the case, just squashes it. You want to press it the minimum you can to get the uniform diameter. The die is 0.225" internally.

Still experimenting but have found to go too far is no good.

Cheers.
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Re: 22LR ammo comparison (12x shootout)

Post by Guliver » 20 Jan 2015, 6:39 pm

Has any one tried Highland crap .22 LR Amunition? It's dirty smokey crud, youde think your shooting black powder :?
It's cheap but poor value at any price.
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Re: 22LR ammo comparison (12x shootout)

Post by bigfellascott » 20 Jan 2015, 7:04 pm

Guliver wrote:Has any one tried Highland crap .22 LR Amunition? It's dirty smokey crud, youde think your shooting black powder :?
It's cheap but poor value at any price.


Pretty sure I've given that one a run too, I think it shot ok (good enough for hunting purposes) can't remember it being anymore smokey than any others/ :unknown:
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Re: 22LR ammo comparison (12x shootout)

Post by Warrigul » 20 Jan 2015, 7:15 pm

Guliver wrote:Has any one tried Highland crap .22 LR Amunition? It's dirty smokey crud, youde think your shooting black powder :?
It's cheap but poor value at any price.


I love it, I have some target 36grain stuff that is going a treat in the pistol, it will hold the nine ring in standard pistol at 25m in my s**ty old 22/45 practice pistol. I shot a 547 last month using it. I paid bugger all for it and bought all that was available.

The Highland subsonics go especially well in my CZ but the shape of the projectile means they engrave into the lands and occaisonally they have to be shot to clear the chamber.


It is cheap, but as highland is no longer made(it was a brand of the now defunct highland sporting agencies) I have to grab it whenever I see it.

Highland rimfire is basically stirling, highland centerfire is PPU.

Grab it when you can if you like it.
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Re: 22LR ammo comparison (12x shootout)

Post by rsj223 » 20 Jan 2015, 9:56 pm

Guliver wrote:Has any one tried Highland crap .22 LR Amunition? It's dirty smokey crud, youde think your shooting black powder :?
It's cheap but poor value at any price.

I've tried it and not smokey shot ok prob wont buy again.
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Re: 22LR ammo comparison (12x shootout)

Post by Gwion » 21 Jan 2015, 6:50 am

Yeah, still got 15 rounds of Highland from last round of testing. Hasn't shot very well in any of the three rifles i've tried it in. AS for being smokey and dirty, haven't really noticed but will shoot the last when weather clears after pressing it in the Waltz die and see how it goes.
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