22LR ammo comparison in Anschütz 1416D (12x shootout)

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Re: 22LR ammo comparison (12x shootout)

Post by Gwion » 18 Jan 2015, 9:03 pm

Westy wrote:Talked to the older brother yesterday and he said they were a no go in bench rest comp shooting as the bullets have been modified.

Might still be ok for silhouette?


Good for practice. I have one for uniforming the hollow points in some ammo and improving el cheapo stuff for plinking. Makes a noticeable difference. Mainly works by uniforming bullet diameter to 0.225" and there by standarising pressure somewhat (sealing bore same every time). If you take the pressing too far it makes it all worse, so there is some testing involved to get it right.

Planning to do a bit more testing with the T-bolt and a mate's new Zasty soon, so will update if you're interested.

Cheers.
1FedChamp-HollowPoints.jpg
Fed Champ hollow points. Left to right, unpressed, with the right hollow point, with too much hollow point, with the right flat, with too much flat.
1FedChamp-HollowPoints.jpg (255.46 KiB) Viewed 8454 times

2FactHolWaltzHol25m.jpg
These are shot in my old Sportco. Doesn't like the round much but gives a little idea of what the press does to performance of this round in this rifle.
2FactHolWaltzHol25m.jpg (214.32 KiB) Viewed 8454 times

3RecFlatOverFlat.jpg
Tope group is with suggested flat tip size, other spray is with the tip flattened too much.
3RecFlatOverFlat.jpg (133.22 KiB) Viewed 8454 times
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Re: 22LR ammo comparison (12x shootout)

Post by bigfellascott » 19 Jan 2015, 6:28 am

Interesting G, so do you think they are worth it?
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Re: 22LR ammo comparison (12x shootout)

Post by Gwion » 19 Jan 2015, 1:49 pm

bigfellascott wrote:Interesting G, so do you think they are worth it?


Funny you should ask, BigFella. Been pondering that very thing this morning. Was going to test more ammo in the mates Zasty and my T-bolt but when he came over our first groups had gone completely to poo. I lost all confidence to do any reliable testing and just spent hours wasting good ammo trying to figure out why i couldn't make a decent group with either rifle when they had both grouped well with the same ammo last week!!??!! Screwed my confidence so much i even made a fluff session out of load testing my 223rem. Got some usable results but even though it was a calm day with light breezes, i got better groups in the last session in 17km/h changable winds!!!???!!!

Anyway, that's a different story.

So, are the Waltz dies worth it? Maybe, maybe not, depending on what you want it for.

Improving hunting ammo (hollow points): with really cheap stuff like Fed Champ, that has almost no hollow point, uniforming the length (and flat tip to 0.130ish") and then poking your own standardised hollow point in the end makes a marked difference to the ammo as it does improve consistent bullet diameter and accuracy. BUT. Anything with a substantial hollow point already is not worth trying to press for diameter because all you do is put a huge flat point if you want to change the diameter from 0.221 (not uncommon) to 0.223-0.225. On ammo like this it's hit and miss and i'm getting the impression that the only use for the die here is to uniform the hollow point for terminal performance, as some of these rounds have extremely varied points on them and i wouldn't trust them to open up properly (pin holed quite a number of Win Power Point 40s).

Improving target ammo: i think that's where it comes into its own. Cheaper solid ammo that shoots ok can be made to shoot quite well by pressing the point to the recommended flat. You can then turn it into Hunting ammo by pressing a good reliable hollow point into it. This way you can shoot target practice and hunt with the same round, once you've buggerised around getting all your pressing procedure right.

In short, i'd say for a lot of people it would be too much hassle and out lay (cost me about $160 landed, from memory). For others who enjoy playing around with stuff and finding that cheap ammo they can take from acceptable to reliable it is well worth it. Also for target practice if you go through a crap load of ammo (think i just shot about 200 rounds this morning), it's worth it.

I really want to test more before making a recommendation to anyone but i'm not disappointed that i bought mine. I can turn the Fed Champ Hollow Points into an acceptable round for both my 22s, which is great for practicing off hand and "snap" shooting and it's less than 1/2 the price of Win PP42max (in my Sportco) and almost 1/3 the price of CCI Velocitor (in my Tbolt). So, two more bricks of Fed Champ Hollows and it will have saved me the money it cost.

So, to answer your question, Scott. I dunno yet! LOL!
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Re: 22LR ammo comparison (12x shootout)

Post by Gwion » 19 Jan 2015, 2:09 pm

PS> i finally got both shooting well enough to go after some bunnies at his place tonight; had to swap the cheap arsed scope he had on the Zasty with the scope off my Sportco to do it, though! He only put it on at Xmas time. Waste of time and ammo!!!
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Re: 22LR ammo comparison (12x shootout)

Post by bigfellascott » 19 Jan 2015, 2:13 pm

$160! ouch, I'm thinking its really not needed for my use, the Savage we have shoots very tight groups with the CCI Standards and almost as good with the PP Subs so I doubt we would benefit from using the die.

So those groups you posted above are from the T-bolt and Zasty? sorry just had another look and it looks like they are from the sportco. :D
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Re: 22LR ammo comparison (12x shootout)

Post by jackles » 20 Jan 2015, 1:18 pm

Gwion wrote:Mainly works by uniforming bullet diameter to 0.225" and there by standarising pressure somewhat (sealing bore same every time). If you take the pressing too far it makes it all worse, so there is some testing involved to get it right.


How does using the uniformer work? Just like setting a seating die?

So if too deep you ruin the ammo, is that right?
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Re: 22LR ammo comparison (12x shootout)

Post by Gwion » 20 Jan 2015, 1:59 pm

jackles wrote:
How does using the uniformer work? Just like setting a seating die?

So if too deep you ruin the ammo, is that right?


Yeah, sort of. If you press it too much it deforms the bullet. To set it you just adjust it the same as a seating die but it doesn't push the bullet into the case, just squashes it. You want to press it the minimum you can to get the uniform diameter. The die is 0.225" internally.

Still experimenting but have found to go too far is no good.

Cheers.
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Re: 22LR ammo comparison (12x shootout)

Post by Guliver » 20 Jan 2015, 6:39 pm

Has any one tried Highland crap .22 LR Amunition? It's dirty smokey crud, youde think your shooting black powder :?
It's cheap but poor value at any price.
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Re: 22LR ammo comparison (12x shootout)

Post by bigfellascott » 20 Jan 2015, 7:04 pm

Guliver wrote:Has any one tried Highland crap .22 LR Amunition? It's dirty smokey crud, youde think your shooting black powder :?
It's cheap but poor value at any price.


Pretty sure I've given that one a run too, I think it shot ok (good enough for hunting purposes) can't remember it being anymore smokey than any others/ :unknown:
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Re: 22LR ammo comparison (12x shootout)

Post by Warrigul » 20 Jan 2015, 7:15 pm

Guliver wrote:Has any one tried Highland crap .22 LR Amunition? It's dirty smokey crud, youde think your shooting black powder :?
It's cheap but poor value at any price.


I love it, I have some target 36grain stuff that is going a treat in the pistol, it will hold the nine ring in standard pistol at 25m in my s**ty old 22/45 practice pistol. I shot a 547 last month using it. I paid bugger all for it and bought all that was available.

The Highland subsonics go especially well in my CZ but the shape of the projectile means they engrave into the lands and occaisonally they have to be shot to clear the chamber.


It is cheap, but as highland is no longer made(it was a brand of the now defunct highland sporting agencies) I have to grab it whenever I see it.

Highland rimfire is basically stirling, highland centerfire is PPU.

Grab it when you can if you like it.
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Re: 22LR ammo comparison (12x shootout)

Post by rsj223 » 20 Jan 2015, 9:56 pm

Guliver wrote:Has any one tried Highland crap .22 LR Amunition? It's dirty smokey crud, youde think your shooting black powder :?
It's cheap but poor value at any price.

I've tried it and not smokey shot ok prob wont buy again.
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Re: 22LR ammo comparison (12x shootout)

Post by Gwion » 21 Jan 2015, 6:50 am

Yeah, still got 15 rounds of Highland from last round of testing. Hasn't shot very well in any of the three rifles i've tried it in. AS for being smokey and dirty, haven't really noticed but will shoot the last when weather clears after pressing it in the Waltz die and see how it goes.
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Re: 22LR ammo comparison (12x shootout)

Post by Tiiger » 21 Jan 2015, 12:09 pm

Guliver wrote:Has any one tried Highland crap .22 LR Amunition? It's dirty smokey crud, youde think your shooting black powder :?
It's cheap but poor value at any price.


After that stirling review I'll go try a box immediately :sarcasm:
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Re: 22LR ammo comparison (12x shootout)

Post by Guliver » 21 Jan 2015, 7:23 pm

I had from one box two cartridges rupture down the side of the case, the sort of thing you see when a cartridge is undersized. Fortunately I only bought one brick.
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Re: 22LR ammo comparison (12x shootout)

Post by Warrigul » 21 Jan 2015, 8:54 pm

Guliver wrote:I had from one box two cartridges rupture down the side of the case, the sort of thing you see when a cartridge is undersized. Fortunately I only bought one brick.


That is very unusual, brass stretches a LONG way normally.

I've used over 15,000 highland and never had any issue at all?
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Re: 22LR ammo comparison (12x shootout)

Post by fuggle » 23 Jan 2015, 10:02 am

Warrigul wrote:I've used over 15,000 highland and never had any issue at all?


Same brand, different product line?
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Re: 22LR ammo comparison (12x shootout)

Post by Warrigul » 23 Jan 2015, 5:18 pm

Four different versions (and a couple of boxes of ZX but statistically they don't count).
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Re: 22LR ammo comparison (12x shootout)

Post by chacka » 26 Jan 2015, 12:31 pm

Not the ZX... Used the centrefire SX ammo though.

100gr .243 and 150gr .270 ammo. Both sub-moa hunting ammo.
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Re: 22LR ammo comparison (12x shootout)

Post by Techc » 26 Jan 2015, 12:34 pm

If you didn't SX is loaded with Sierra GameKings.

Yeah, just FYI. Accurate hunting bullets :)
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Re: 22LR ammo comparison (12x shootout)

Post by joker » 05 Jun 2015, 9:34 am

Great post mate. This helped heaps for understanding the concept of different types of ammunition cheers
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Re: 22LR ammo comparison (12x shootout)

Post by Rick » 03 Sep 2015, 11:54 am

Ive used Highland subs, bit smokjey but was okay, didnt have high expectations due to price, Wichester Bushmans were okay, CCI okay, anyone got any exp with Winchester T22?
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3 shotguns, all 12 Ga, U/O, SKB, FEG (coach) and Fausti
maybe a Boito coach gun, just because I should have a SXS in the safe.
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Re: 22LR ammo comparison (12x shootout)

Post by sandgroperbill » 03 Sep 2015, 12:27 pm

In the first YouTube link there was a zombie survival guide...

Slightly ironic given as how this dead thread has now come back to life twice over :sarcasm:
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Re: 22LR ammo comparison (12x shootout)

Post by Rick » 03 Sep 2015, 1:17 pm

:drinks: lol, hey I just got here!!
Winchester Model 06 .22 Pump
Winchester Model 9422 .22WMR Lever, with scope
Marlin Model 1895 45-70 Government, Lever
3 shotguns, all 12 Ga, U/O, SKB, FEG (coach) and Fausti
maybe a Boito coach gun, just because I should have a SXS in the safe.
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Re: 22LR ammo comparison (12x shootout)

Post by Lorgar » 04 Sep 2015, 8:41 am

sandgroperbill wrote:Slightly ironic given as how this dead thread has now come back to life twice over :sarcasm:


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Re: 22LR ammo comparison in Anschütz 1416D (12x shootout)

Post by flashman » 29 Oct 2017, 6:18 pm

Hi my ruger luvs eley sub-sonics bit pricy ,but what can u do................................. :mrgreen:
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Re: 22LR ammo comparison (12x shootout)

Post by southeast varmiter » 01 Nov 2017, 10:03 am

5Tom wrote:I got a Norinco JW15 .22 and it's a 2 - 2.5 MOA shooter.. I've mostly tried Winchester powerpoints 40gr and 42gr, Super speed and Sub-Sonics, CCI, Bushman and Highland. Doesn't really seem to get much better :(

Looks like I got more ammo to try.


Try Eley subsonic. It works great in them.
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Re: 22LR ammo comparison in Anschütz 1416D (12x shootout)

Post by Hugh » 12 Nov 2017, 12:49 pm

I have a Anschutz 22 that I sighted in when I was 23,stirling 4x40 scope,still confident of head shooting rabbits out to 100 metre with any type of ammo,great rifle.Picked up heaps 22 ammo when Clayton firearms was doing a clearout at 20c-$1.00 a box over 20 years ago of all different makes and velocity,still have 4 boxes left and I'm now 59.
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