.22, ground glass in primer mix and barrel life

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.22, ground glass in primer mix and barrel life

Post by Urastus » 22 Sep 2018, 1:45 pm

Hello. I'm about to buy a new .22 rifle and scope and all the other gear that adds up. It's a fair bit of money. Anyway, reading on various rifles I came across some folk who had short .22 barrel life and the theory is that the ammo they use has ground up glass in the priming mix. The wear usually shows along the bottom of the bore. Eley is one manufacturer that does this: https://www.chuckhawks.com/quest_22_ammo.htm An alternative to ground glass as a frictionator (sheesh) is aluminium powder which is also a propellant https://www.bevfitchett.us/chemical-ana ... tions.html. Obviously with a nice new rifle I want to keep away from the glass stuff. Does anyone here have any knowledge of what brands use aluminium powder, or what brands use glass? Be aware if you search for aluminium in the links above use the spelling aluminum (the us spelling)
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Re: .22, ground glass in primer mix and barrel life

Post by Stix » 22 Sep 2018, 8:47 pm

I know nothing about what youre saying with regard to ground glass. :unknown:

Loose carbon sits at the bottom of the barrel of a 22lr after a session--you can see it down the bore. :shock:

If worried about it "wearing out" the barrel at 6 o'clock, push a patch through the bore with whatever CLP you buy, or even oil, or drag a pull-thru down the pipe after every time you shoot.

I grew up on a Sportco 22lr...it still sits in my ol'mans safe...its had so much use & looks so worn we would have to pay someone to take it away...!!!!! :thumbsdown:

Im guessing when i was around the age of 10-12 & the ol'man was teaching me the responsibility to look after your equipment, he made me clean out the bore after a day on the bunnies

That happened once...& im hazzarding an educated guess thats only the third time that rifles' bore has ever been cleaned...the first time was probably after the ol'man first shot it....& the third time was after i stole it for a few weeks in more modern times.

That rifle has killed hundreds & hundreds of bottles, cans & limestone rocks...& headshot many hundreds of foxes & thousands of rabbits...

I stole it from him some thirthy to fourty years on just for a bit of nostalgia & 3 out of 5 shots It could still shoot a 1/4 inch twig off a tree at 30 metres...but the trigger is bludy horrible...!!!!!
The man who knows everything, doesnt really know everything...he's just stopped learning...
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Re: .22, ground glass in primer mix and barrel life

Post by Urastus » 22 Sep 2018, 9:15 pm

Yes, my experience too, although it was a slazenger single shot made by lithgow in the 20's I think (the one where you pull the rear of the bolt to cock it). However, things may have changed from about 2005. It seems to be effecting mostly target shooters using eley or lapua
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Re: .22, ground glass in primer mix and barrel life

Post by bladeracer » 22 Sep 2018, 11:46 pm

Urastus wrote:Hello. I'm about to buy a new .22 rifle and scope and all the other gear that adds up. It's a fair bit of money. Anyway, reading on various rifles I came across some folk who had short .22 barrel life and the theory is that the ammo they use has ground up glass in the priming mix. The wear usually shows along the bottom of the bore. Eley is one manufacturer that does this: https://www.chuckhawks.com/quest_22_ammo.htm An alternative to ground glass as a frictionator (sheesh) is aluminium powder which is also a propellant https://www.bevfitchett.us/chemical-ana ... tions.html. Obviously with a nice new rifle I want to keep away from the glass stuff. Does anyone here have any knowledge of what brands use aluminium powder, or what brands use glass? Be aware if you search for aluminium in the links above use the spelling aluminum (the us spelling)


What do they mean by "short" life, under a million rounds or under 100,000rds? And how are they determining it's worn out? Accuracy drops from 1MoA to 2MoA? There was a shooter in the US who had over a million rounds through his competition 10/22. Even with cheap ammo that's a hundred-grand worth of ammo through that barrel.

I really wouldn't worry about it at all. You can probably replace the barrel for about the cost of a case of cheap ammo, or just buy a new rifle.
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Re: .22, ground glass in primer mix and barrel life

Post by tom604 » 23 Sep 2018, 12:01 am

i didn't know you could wear out a .22 :shock:
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Re: .22, ground glass in primer mix and barrel life

Post by straightshooter » 23 Sep 2018, 7:40 am

Urastus wrote:Hello. I'm about to buy a new .22 rifle and scope and all the other gear that adds up. It's a fair bit of money. Anyway, reading on various rifles I came across some folk who had short .22 barrel life and the theory is that the ammo they use has ground up glass in the priming mix. The wear usually shows along the bottom of the bore. Eley is one manufacturer that does this: https://www.chuckhawks.com/quest_22_ammo.htm An alternative to ground glass as a frictionator (sheesh) is aluminium powder which is also a propellant https://www.bevfitchett.us/chemical-ana ... tions.html. Obviously with a nice new rifle I want to keep away from the glass stuff. Does anyone here have any knowledge of what brands use aluminium powder, or what brands use glass? Be aware if you search for aluminium in the links above use the spelling aluminum (the us spelling)


Please understand that people today are saturated with advertising.
Most "in your face" advertising is relatively easy to deal with BUT the insidious surreptitious forms of both positive and negative advertising are what turn people's brains to putty.
A classic advertising technique is to present a (often exaggerated or concocted) problem and then reveal their glorious solution to that problem.
Now to the upshot of your post.
At about 100 000 rounds your rimfire barrel might begin to show some evidence of wear with these disgusting ground glass primers yet without any detectable effect on accuracy provided you have followed sound maintenance and preservation procedures.
The greater probability is that poor maintenance or other forms of abuse will have had their effect much sooner in the life of the barrel.
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Re: .22, ground glass in primer mix and barrel life

Post by Gaznazdiak » 23 Sep 2018, 11:21 am

tom604 wrote:i didn't know you could wear out a .22 :shock:


My favourite gun of all is my 100+yo Winchester Model 04 my Mum gave me when I was 13, no idea how many 100's of thousands of rounds I have put through him, but the rifling is now only visible after a good clean, fire a couple down there and it's invisible.

I don't hunt with him anymore, the combination of the lack of rifling, open sights and my shaky "disco hands" mean I'd be better using him as a club :D
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Re: .22, ground glass in primer mix and barrel life

Post by Urastus » 23 Sep 2018, 11:25 am

Sounds good. I'd rather it not be true of course.

Thankyou all for the reality check
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Re: .22, ground glass in primer mix and barrel life

Post by Ten » 23 Sep 2018, 3:07 pm

Many years ago I noticed a six o'clock ring showing up just forward of the chamber in my Hart barrelled Anschutz after about 50,000 rounds.

I queried Eley on this and they said the visible ring was due to the ground glass in the priming mix, and not to worry. They added that they had test barrels that had fired over 300,000 rounds!
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Re: .22, ground glass in primer mix and barrel life

Post by Urastus » 23 Sep 2018, 6:22 pm

Ten wrote:Many years ago I noticed a six o'clock ring showing up just forward of the chamber in my Hart barrelled Anschutz after about 50,000 rounds.

I queried Eley on this and they said the visible ring was due to the ground glass in the priming mix, and not to worry. They added that they had test barrels that had fired over 300,000 rounds!


Yes, Eley are very defensive on this now. They've had quite a media campaign - doing the barrel firing tests - in the states that has been met with some scepticism. Apparently some of the photos they used were from another manufacturers tests; that wouldn't help :) I don't know why they just stop using glass and start using the aluminium powder; that would be the end of the stories.
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Re: .22, ground glass in primer mix and barrel life

Post by No1_49er » 23 Sep 2018, 6:50 pm

Aluminium "powder" is usually Aluminium Hydroxide (Alumina). There are various grades, some of which are rather coarse for use in smelting to produce aluminium. Fine (particulate) grades are used as the abrasive in some toothpastes.
Probably more abrasive than glass. Be careful what you wish for.
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Re: .22, ground glass in primer mix and barrel life

Post by knowsnothin » 23 Sep 2018, 6:50 pm

Bottom line is.

Eley shoot good.
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Re: .22, ground glass in primer mix and barrel life

Post by Urastus » 23 Sep 2018, 6:54 pm

No1_49er wrote:Aluminium "powder" is usually Aluminium Hydroxide (Alumina). There are various grades, some of which are rather coarse for use in smelting to produce aluminium. Fine (particulate) grades are used as the abrasive in some toothpastes.
Probably more abrasive than glass. Be careful what you wish for.


It is used by some, I don't know what brands, hence the question here. Apparently it adds to the explosive mix and burns and doesn't cause the same wear at 6 o clock.
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Re: .22, ground glass in primer mix and barrel life

Post by Ziad » 23 Sep 2018, 8:05 pm

knowsnothin wrote:Bottom line is.

Eley shoot good.
bloody oath they do... even thre eley std
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Re: .22, ground glass in primer mix and barrel life

Post by Oldbloke » 23 Sep 2018, 9:37 pm

The hardness of Aluminium Hydroxide on the moh scale is 2.5. Glass is 5.5. It isn't linear so I'd guess glass is at least 5 times harder.

The glass it added to the primer mix to make it more sensitive to impact. This I guess would result in more reliable ignition.
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Re: .22, ground glass in primer mix and barrel life

Post by Urastus » 23 Sep 2018, 10:45 pm

Oldbloke wrote:The hardness of Aluminium Hydroxide on the moh scale is 2.5. Glass is 5.5. It isn't linear so I'd guess glass is at least 5 times harder.

The glass it added to the primer mix to make it more sensitive to impact. This I guess would result in more reliable ignition.


Yes, that's right. They call it a frictionator. Actually, I just read that eley has a patent on it (glass in the primer mix). Hopefully that means they're the only ones doing it.
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Re: .22, ground glass in primer mix and barrel life

Post by straightshooter » 24 Sep 2018, 7:48 am

Urastus wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:The hardness of Aluminium Hydroxide on the moh scale is 2.5. Glass is 5.5. It isn't linear so I'd guess glass is at least 5 times harder.

The glass it added to the primer mix to make it more sensitive to impact. This I guess would result in more reliable ignition.


Yes, that's right. They call it a frictionator. Actually, I just read that eley has a patent on it (glass in the primer mix). Hopefully that means they're the only ones doing it.


It would seem that ground glass in primers is an obdurate concern giving you sleepless nights and thus preventing you from buying your first 22 rifle.
To put yourself at ease wouldn't the simple solution be to only buy the ammunition that does not contain ground glass.
As a kindness to me and other forum members could you please let us know how your barrel looks after firing 100 000 rounds of your selected glass free ammunition.
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Re: .22, ground glass in primer mix and barrel life

Post by Ziad » 24 Sep 2018, 10:41 am

It might take him 50 years... until then I'll be happy shooting my eley standard at ~65 per 500 rounds
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