7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Calibres, cartridges, ballistics tables and ammunition information.

Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by JimTom » 10 Jan 2019, 2:58 am

Flyer wrote:I had a 527 full stock (lovely rifle) in 223 and disabled the set trigger so that it worked only off the main trigger. It was a great little rifle which I only sold to buy a Sako 85 in the same cailbre.

At least with the Grendel you can have a stash of 6.5 projectiles to use for that and your 6.5 Creedmoor.



Yeah that's true mate, have 95gn Vmax and 123gn SST already. Was going to get around to trying them in my Creedmoor.
User avatar
JimTom
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
 
Posts: 2130
Queensland

Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by Flyer » 10 Jan 2019, 1:41 pm

According to all my books, 2209 gives the best velocity with 123gr 6.5CM bullets.

43.2gr of 2209 with 123gr Lapua Scenars shoots best in my 6.5CM Sako A7 - 0.375" 4-shot groups at 100m (well under 1/2 MOA) at 2815fps (chronoed).

44.2gr of 2209 shoots second best and was chronoed at 2880 - would make a good hunting round.

I also tested 45.2gr of 2209, which wasn't as accurate, but was a very fast load at 2960fps.

These should all be good ball-park figures for the 123gr SSTs. I loaded .015" off the lands, so OAL was 2.850" (2.865" to the lands with the 123gr Scenar). Lapua small primer cases (Starline SRP cases have almost identical case capacity) with CCI BR4 primers.
The laws of physics do not apply to politics.
Flyer
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 392
-

Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by in2anity » 10 Jan 2019, 1:58 pm

I thought we were talking about Grendel?
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
User avatar
in2anity
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 3048
New South Wales

Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by JimTom » 10 Jan 2019, 4:24 pm

Yes mate we were, Flyer and I both have Creedmoors and the talk of a common projectile developed into a bit of a tangent in the conversation.
User avatar
JimTom
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
 
Posts: 2130
Queensland

Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by JimTom » 15 Feb 2019, 1:48 pm

Just ordered a Ruger American Ranch in 300AAC for those who are interested in which way I went.
They are on sale at the moment for a fairly good price. Couldn’t help myself. Looking forward to taking it out and putting a few down range before chasing a few close range hogs with it.
User avatar
JimTom
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
 
Posts: 2130
Queensland

Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by SCJ429 » 15 Feb 2019, 6:09 pm

Nice one, what bullet are you going to use for pigs?
SCJ429
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 3207
New South Wales

Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by JimTom » 15 Feb 2019, 8:18 pm

G’day ate I have a fair few 130gn Speer HP that I used in my .308 but 3000fps was a bit quick and I think they expanded to quickly giving no penetration.

Hoping they will go ok in the blackout as I have 1000 of them. Do you have any projectile suggestions mate?
User avatar
JimTom
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
 
Posts: 2130
Queensland

Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by Bill » 16 Feb 2019, 7:19 am

BO is bit of a dumpling past 200m but plenty for gun for pigs thou. I hate when sales influence a decision LOL. So what projectile will you be using, heavy or light ?
When a guy is digging his own grave, you don’t fight him for the shovel.

Success leaves clues, Fools follow failure !

20 Hornet, 218 Bee, 222 Rem, 256 WM, 6mm ARC, 6.5 Grendel, 6.5x55 Scan, 270 Win, 357 Mag, 358 Win, 9.3x62, 500 A Square
User avatar
Bill
Warrant Officer C1
Warrant Officer C1
 
Posts: 1253
New South Wales

Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by JimTom » 16 Feb 2019, 8:13 am

Bill wrote:BO is bit of a dumpling past 200m but plenty for gun for pigs thou. I hate when sales influence a decision LOL. So what projectile will you be using, heavy or light ?


Mate I only intend on using it <100m. Most of the shots where I go are fairly close. 300 AAC will be spot on for what I want it for. After conducting research, I have been leaning towards the 300AAC for a while anyhow, I have a fair few projectiles for it already, and I guess the sale is what sealed the deal. In saying that if the 7.62x39 was on sale I do t think I would have purchased it.
Will be trying some 130gn HP initially mate. Have a few laying around so am hoping they go well.
User avatar
JimTom
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
 
Posts: 2130
Queensland

Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by SCJ429 » 16 Feb 2019, 8:41 am

I don't have any experience with slow moving small projectiles, the only reduced hunting loads I have tried have been with big bores where you need something to open up at lower velocities. I wonder for you if the Speer TNT 125 would work. They are very frangable perhaps too much so. I will be interested to hear how your 130 grain Speer's go.
SCJ429
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 3207
New South Wales

Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by JimTom » 16 Feb 2019, 9:36 am

SCJ429 wrote:I don't have any experience with slow moving small projectiles, the only reduced hunting loads I have tried have been with big bores where you need something to open up at lower velocities. I wonder for you if the Speer TNT 125 would work. They are very frangable perhaps too much so. I will be interested to hear how your 130 grain Speer's go.


Thanks mate. Will try the 130’s first and they’re no good will prob try a 125 of some description. Thanks for the suggestion mate. Will keep it in mind.
User avatar
JimTom
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
 
Posts: 2130
Queensland

Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by vmaxaust » 19 Feb 2019, 6:48 pm

300BLK is great. The latest Ranch rifle has AR magazines or you can use the original type with rotary mag. I have rotary mag Ranch in 300 as well as a Ranch in 223. Bargain, accurate and great bolt action on either.
I also have a 300BLK Warwick rifle which is amazing.
Everyone bags the poor old 300 but until you really explore its capabilities and advantages by owning them you have no idea.
I reload all my 223, 300, 303 rifle calibres. For the 300 I cast my own projectiles and Hi Tek coat them. In the Ranch rifle there is no problem using Hi Tek coated cast bullets even at 2200fps without gas checks. No leading whatsoever, very accurate to 200 metres (I don't shoot these beyond 100 most of the time).
I started loading with Sierra 135gr bullets very successfully but have switched more and more to cast the same way I did with 303's. Easy on the barrels and no leading.
Don't write off the 300. It's not just a fad, but of course it isn't for everyone. Some people need to get 10 shots into 1" at 300 metres.




JimTom wrote:G'day Gents

Have been doing a little research on the pro's and cons of the above mentioned cartridges for use as a close range (under 100M) pig buster. Looking at a Ruger American Ranch or Similar. Yes I know that rifle doesn't come in Grendel.

I think either one would be suitable, however I thought I would call on the brains trust to chuck their thoughts and opinions into the ring.

Thanks for your time in advance fellas, sincerely appreciated.
vmaxaust
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 116
Victoria

Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by JimTom » 19 Feb 2019, 8:21 pm

Yeah mate I am looking forward to seeing what it can do.
User avatar
JimTom
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
 
Posts: 2130
Queensland

Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by SCJ429 » 19 Feb 2019, 8:58 pm

vmaxaust wrote:Everyone bags the poor old 300 but until you really explore its capabilities and advantages by owning them you have no idea. ]


What advantages do you see over other 30 cals?
SCJ429
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 3207
New South Wales

Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by vmaxaust » 20 Feb 2019, 5:46 am

SCJ429 wrote:
vmaxaust wrote:Everyone bags the poor old 300 but until you really explore its capabilities and advantages by owning them you have no idea. ]


What advantages do you see over other 30 cals?



Cheap to reload with light powder needs, many projectile options from 308, compact cartridge that still hits at least as hard as 7.62-39, in rifles with AR mags you have 10 shots in a compact magazine. It also doesn't hurt that on my Hornady Progressive press I can use the same shell plate as 223. For those who don't reload the bulk ammo from ADI is very good value and works very well.
Once again, if you are an eagle eye target shooter wanting the optimum in groups 300BLK may not be as good at the longest distances (although I've personally never tested it and I doubt the baggers here ever have) but for me it's easily as accurate as anything else to over 200 metres.
Most people who discount this round look at the ballistics and articles on line that show the 300 as a round that simply cannot potentially have sufficient range due to its light powder load causing its trajectory to be like a banana.
Once again...what distances are you shooting it at? For me personally and I believe many others the really long distances are virtually irrelevant. For me the positives much outweigh that one apparent negative.
vmaxaust
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 116
Victoria

Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by JimTom » 20 Feb 2019, 2:24 pm

Not that I intend on using it at that distance but I watched a video clip of a bloke shooting targets at 500yds with a 300AAC.
User avatar
JimTom
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
 
Posts: 2130
Queensland

Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by in2anity » 25 Feb 2019, 9:44 pm

Under varying conditions, in my experience lighter 30 cal pills at mild velocities are really not that great over those medium+ distances, just sayin. Just keep your expectations in check i guess is what I’m sayin - horses for courses. If you have expectations about consistently grouping at medium distances and beyond, personally I’d steer clear of the small and somewhat limiting blk case. Fluctuating windage really destroy lighter, slow moving pills...
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
User avatar
in2anity
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 3048
New South Wales

Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by JimTom » 26 Feb 2019, 8:33 pm

in2anity wrote:Under varying conditions, in my experience lighter 30 cal pills at mild velocities are really not that great over those medium+ distances, just sayin. Just keep your expectations in check i guess is what I’m sayin - horses for courses. If you have expectations about consistently grouping at medium distances and beyond, personally I’d steer clear of the small and somewhat limiting blk case. Fluctuating windage really destroy lighter, slow moving pills...


No expectations beyond 100m mate. I have other rifles to cover distance, I purchased this is purely as a 0-100m rifle.
User avatar
JimTom
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
 
Posts: 2130
Queensland

Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by Blr243 » 26 Feb 2019, 10:12 pm

I just bought a rem 300 blackout and I’m keen to experiment with it but it’s one of them bastard guns that won’t turn up at the dealers for another 4 months I did find on sale new primed Remington cases at 35 dollars per hundred
Blr243
Brigadier
Brigadier
 
Posts: 4479
Queensland

Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by wanneroo » 27 Feb 2019, 12:52 am

I'm building a new 300 Blackout AR-15. This will be my first AR build rather than buying a rifle off the shelf. I bought a stripped Anderson lower for $60, a Palmetto State parts kit for $369 that includes a complete upper with bolt carrier group and a complete set of lower receiver parts to install in the lower plus the butt stock, a Magpul fore grip for $25, a Sig Sauer red dot Romeo 5 for $119 and an O-Light 1200 lumen gun light for $59. Basically just wanted a simple rifle to use as a rifle around the property, to put in the car or for home defense and one that was cheap enough I could bang it up and not worry about it.
wanneroo
Warrant Officer C1
Warrant Officer C1
 
Posts: 1412
United States of America

Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by JimTom » 27 Feb 2019, 5:02 am

Blr243 wrote:I just bought a rem 300 blackout and I’m keen to experiment with it but it’s one of them bastard guns that won’t turn up at the dealers for another 4 months I did find on sale new primed Remington cases at 35 dollars per hundred



Mate the wait can be agonising fir sure.
That's cheap for primed brass. I a. Using ADI brass for reloading my 300AAC.
User avatar
JimTom
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
 
Posts: 2130
Queensland

Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by JimTom » 27 Feb 2019, 5:04 am

wanneroo wrote:I'm building a new 300 Blackout AR-15. This will be my first AR build rather than buying a rifle off the shelf. I bought a stripped Anderson lower for $60, a Palmetto State parts kit for $369 that includes a complete upper with bolt carrier group and a complete set of lower receiver parts to install in the lower plus the butt stock, a Magpul fore grip for $25, a Sig Sauer red dot Romeo 5 for $119 and an O-Light 1200 lumen gun light for $59. Basically just wanted a simple rifle to use as a rifle around the property, to put in the car or for home defense and one that was cheap enough I could bang it up and not worry about it.


Mate that sounds like a good little project. No chance of doing that here in Aus. Would appreciate seeing a picture or two of the finished product if you get the chance to put one up. :thumbsup:
User avatar
JimTom
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
 
Posts: 2130
Queensland

Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by wanneroo » 27 Feb 2019, 2:20 pm

JimTom wrote:
wanneroo wrote:I'm building a new 300 Blackout AR-15. This will be my first AR build rather than buying a rifle off the shelf. I bought a stripped Anderson lower for $60, a Palmetto State parts kit for $369 that includes a complete upper with bolt carrier group and a complete set of lower receiver parts to install in the lower plus the butt stock, a Magpul fore grip for $25, a Sig Sauer red dot Romeo 5 for $119 and an O-Light 1200 lumen gun light for $59. Basically just wanted a simple rifle to use as a rifle around the property, to put in the car or for home defense and one that was cheap enough I could bang it up and not worry about it.


Mate that sounds like a good little project. No chance of doing that here in Aus. Would appreciate seeing a picture or two of the finished product if you get the chance to put one up. :thumbsup:


I might end up doing a Youtube series on it. I'm going to be curious to see what accuracy I get out of this rifle compared to the other rifle.
wanneroo
Warrant Officer C1
Warrant Officer C1
 
Posts: 1412
United States of America

Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by Daddybang » 27 Feb 2019, 2:37 pm

JimTom wrote:
wanneroo wrote:I'm building a new 300 Blackout AR-15. This will be my first AR build rather than buying a rifle off the shelf. I bought a stripped Anderson lower for $60, a Palmetto State parts kit for $369 that includes a complete upper with bolt carrier group and a complete set of lower receiver parts to install in the lower plus the butt stock, a Magpul fore grip for $25, a Sig Sauer red dot Romeo 5 for $119 and an O-Light 1200 lumen gun light for $59. Basically just wanted a simple rifle to use as a rifle around the property, to put in the car or for home defense and one that was cheap enough I could bang it up and not worry about it.


Mate that sounds like a good little project. No chance of doing that here in Aus. Would appreciate seeing a picture or two of the finished product if you get the chance to put one up. :thumbsup:


Yep post a couple of pics for us poor bastards to dream and drool over!!!!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :drinks: :drinks: :drinks:
This hard living ain't as easy as it used to be!!!
Daddybang
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
 
Posts: 2012
Queensland

Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by JimTom » 27 Feb 2019, 7:16 pm

wanneroo wrote:
JimTom wrote:
wanneroo wrote:I'm building a new 300 Blackout AR-15. This will be my first AR build rather than buying a rifle off the shelf. I bought a stripped Anderson lower for $60, a Palmetto State parts kit for $369 that includes a complete upper with bolt carrier group and a complete set of lower receiver parts to install in the lower plus the butt stock, a Magpul fore grip for $25, a Sig Sauer red dot Romeo 5 for $119 and an O-Light 1200 lumen gun light for $59. Basically just wanted a simple rifle to use as a rifle around the property, to put in the car or for home defense and one that was cheap enough I could bang it up and not worry about it.


Mate that sounds like a good little project. No chance of doing that here in Aus. Would appreciate seeing a picture or two of the finished product if you get the chance to put one up. :thumbsup:


I might end up doing a Youtube series on it. I'm going to be curious to see what accuracy I get out of this rifle compared to the other rifle.


If you do the TubeFace thing let us now the details mate, I’d be keen to watch it.
User avatar
JimTom
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
 
Posts: 2130
Queensland

Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by wanneroo » 01 Apr 2019, 2:53 am

Well here you go, the AR-15 I built. We have an up and coming company here in the USA called Palmetto State Armory that sells quality but affordable AR and AK rifles and kits. Most of their barrels are made by FN Herstal.

We've got a 300 Blackout rifle kit here, 16 inch barrel, M-Lok handguard, standard AR-15/M-4 parts such as bolt carrier group, stock, grip, etc. The kit comes with a complete upper and a lower parts kit. You supply your own lower receiver. I bought an Anderson lower for $60 and assembled it myself with basic tools and punches. Mostly it is a selection of pins and springs used to hold everything together.

For a sight I went with a Sig Sauer Romeo 5 red dot since I don't really plan on shooting beyond 100 metres with this. $119 for that and it has a reputation for being very durable. I sighted it at 50 metres and got a group of around an inch so 2 MOA at 100 is fine. At some point when I build an AR Blackout pistol I might switch this sight to that and put another scope or sight on this rifle.

Also added a Magpul fore grip and an Olight weapon light with quick detach lever. I'd like to add a magazine pouch to the rear stock as I would like to keep a magazine with the rifle so I have two options, subsonic expanding bullets and lighter copper solid bullets.

Total cost I think came in around $650 US$

These days kits and lowers are so cheap a rifle can be built for a couple hundred bucks with no accessories so I plan on acquiring a few more lower receivers and kits. I think next will be a 300 Blackout AR-15 "pistol" and a regular 5.56mm M4 type AR-15 rifle.
Attachments
55750463_10155891134992085_4220975575109468160_n.jpg
55750463_10155891134992085_4220975575109468160_n.jpg (115.02 KiB) Viewed 4930 times
wanneroo
Warrant Officer C1
Warrant Officer C1
 
Posts: 1412
United States of America

Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by JimTom » 01 Apr 2019, 5:01 am

Good job mate.
User avatar
JimTom
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
 
Posts: 2130
Queensland

Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by SCJ429 » 01 Apr 2019, 7:29 pm

What is the big knob hanging down under the fore end?
SCJ429
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 3207
New South Wales

Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by wanneroo » 01 Apr 2019, 11:23 pm

SCJ429 wrote:What is the big knob hanging down under the fore end?


It's a Magpul fore grip. They were more popular 10-15 years ago, these days angled fore grips are more common and some people just go without. I find the 90 degree angle grip more comfortable to use. You can shoot holding onto it or prop the web of your hand up against it while shooting or use it to keep good control of the rifle if you need to make your shooting hand free.
wanneroo
Warrant Officer C1
Warrant Officer C1
 
Posts: 1412
United States of America

Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by Urastus » 18 Apr 2019, 4:56 pm

JimTom wrote:I did do a search before asking however nothing recent on this forum. A few people talking down the 300AAC as a fad. Be interested in people's thoughts, regardless of whether you own a rifle in these chamberings or not.


the 300 is made for this. Safety - if you miss, it's going to hit the ground soon. Size and weight - a 16" barrel is considered the maximum length; many in the US go with 12". And lastly, it's designed for a huge slug; piggies don't like them.
Urastus
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 140
Tasmania

PreviousNext

Back to top
 
Return to Calibres, cartridges and ballistics