7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

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Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by JimTom » 06 Jan 2019, 7:51 pm

SCJ429 wrote:Would Trail Boss in your 308 do everything that you were hoping to do with the 300? I think that a 45/70 with Trail Boss is a pretty good alternative to the Blackout.



Yeah I reckon using trailboss or using reduced loads of AR2206H would do what I want.
You are right, I don’t really need it, but where is the fun in that.
Any excuse for a new rifle.
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Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by SCJ429 » 06 Jan 2019, 8:09 pm

What I see missing in your gun safe is a 375, 416 or a 458.
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Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by in2anity » 06 Jan 2019, 8:36 pm

bigrich wrote:after looking at some ballistics on these rounds, it seems like their a bolt action in the 30-30 niche . not a critisism , just a observation . the 6.5 would have superior accuracy at distance i would imagine :unknown: i have considered a ruger bolt gun in 44 mag as a 100 yard rifle, but the jury's still out on that for me ;) the 300 BO does sound interesting :)

:drinks: :drinks: :thumbsup:


The BO vs 30/30 is the obvious parallel to draw, but the BO should be more accurate (in a bolt gun that is). I'm speculating here (never owned a BO) but the BO (vs 30/30) should also be more suited to the handloader; the smaller case means you can operate in the faster powder region, equating to better economy than the mid-burns. The front locking lugs of the bolt gun (vs the 30/30's rear locking lugs) should equate to less case stretch and longer brass life, not to mention I'm guessing the brass will be thicker on the modern BO cartridge compared to the 30/30 (looking at the pressure specs).
Last edited by in2anity on 06 Jan 2019, 9:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by JimTom » 06 Jan 2019, 8:37 pm

SCJ429 wrote:What I see missing in your gun safe is a 375, 416 or a 458.


Haha yeah well I had entertained the idea of something larger but to be honest mate I’d have nothing to shoot with it. Bit of an overkill for the feral pig population.
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Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by in2anity » 06 Jan 2019, 8:42 pm

SCJ429 wrote:I think that a 45/70 with Trail Boss is a pretty good alternative to the Blackout.


IMO I don't think so - the 45/70 will consume a lot more Trail Boss than the BO, and probably be less accurate. Not to mention the 45/70 will shoot more rainbow and consume more lead.
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Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by in2anity » 06 Jan 2019, 9:17 pm

JimTom wrote:reduced loads of AR2206H would do what I want.
You are right, I don’t really need it, but where is the fun in that.
Any excuse for a new rifle.
:thumbsup:


Part cases of 2206H can be annoyingly position sensitive - alright for target shooting but it's another variable you have to consider.
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Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by SCJ429 » 06 Jan 2019, 10:20 pm

in2anity wrote:
SCJ429 wrote:I think that a 45/70 with Trail Boss is a pretty good alternative to the Blackout.


IMO I don't think so - the 45/70 will consume a lot more Trail Boss than the BO, and probably be less accurate. Not to mention the 45/70 will shoot more rainbow and consume more lead.


I don't think that they use trail boss in the Blackout when shooting heavy 200 plus projectiles. My thinking was that a 45/70 would be a good fun lead slinger at subsonic speeds for short range work. I don't expect people buy a blackout because it shoots bug holes. Of course a 400 grain bullet travelling at 1000 fps isn't going to be flat shooting but the Blackout is no 257 Weatherby in this regard.

The 45/70 is just a left field suggestion, I think out of all of your options you cannot go wrong. They all will be a lot of fun.
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Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by wanneroo » 07 Jan 2019, 2:20 am

I know there are subsonic 308 loads you can do, I've shot subsonic 308 in a bolt gun with suppressor and it's pretty damn quiet.

However, one advantage for those with bolt guns is 300 BO is a 223 sized action, so if you don't want to carry the extra weight of a 308, this is where it can come into play. I have AR semi auto rifles in both and carrying around the 308 AR rifle is a totally different proposition to the 300 BO AR. 300 BO is light and handy, 308 is not.
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Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by bigrich » 07 Jan 2019, 4:36 am

in2anity wrote:
bigrich wrote:after looking at some ballistics on these rounds, it seems like their a bolt action in the 30-30 niche . not a critisism , just a observation . the 6.5 would have superior accuracy at distance i would imagine :unknown: i have considered a ruger bolt gun in 44 mag as a 100 yard rifle, but the jury's still out on that for me ;) the 300 BO does sound interesting :)

:drinks: :drinks: :thumbsup:


The BO vs 30/30 is the obvious parallel to draw, but the BO should be more accurate (in a bolt gun that is). I'm speculating here (never owned a BO) but the BO (vs 30/30) should also be more suited to the handloader; the smaller case means you can operate in the faster powder region, equating to better economy than the mid-burns. The front locking lugs of the bolt gun (vs the 30/30's rear locking lugs) should equate to less case stretch and longer brass life, not to mention I'm guessing the brass will be thicker on the modern BO cartridge compared to the 30/30 (looking at the pressure specs).


Absolutely a bolt gun would be more accurate, as well as spritzer bullets in a bolt help accuracy. The parallels I’m referring to are the similarities in power and caliber in a lightweight Carbine type rifle for 100 - 150 yard type shooting. Just a observation

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Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by in2anity » 07 Jan 2019, 6:20 am

wanneroo wrote:I know there are subsonic 308 loads you can do, I've shot subsonic 308 in a bolt gun with suppressor and it's pretty damn quiet.

However, one advantage for those with bolt guns is 300 BO is a 223 sized action, so if you don't want to carry the extra weight of a 308, this is where it can come into play. I have AR semi auto rifles in both and carrying around the 308 AR rifle is a totally different proposition to the 300 BO AR. 300 BO is light and handy, 308 is not.


Sadly ARs aren't really a think down here.
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Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by wanneroo » 07 Jan 2019, 8:11 am

in2anity wrote:
wanneroo wrote:I know there are subsonic 308 loads you can do, I've shot subsonic 308 in a bolt gun with suppressor and it's pretty damn quiet.

However, one advantage for those with bolt guns is 300 BO is a 223 sized action, so if you don't want to carry the extra weight of a 308, this is where it can come into play. I have AR semi auto rifles in both and carrying around the 308 AR rifle is a totally different proposition to the 300 BO AR. 300 BO is light and handy, 308 is not.


Sadly ARs aren't really a think down here.


I know, unfortunate for you all, but whether a bolt or semi auto, there will be a weight difference. Again it all depends what you want.

Someone mentioned 30-30 up above. I shot one last weekend and 300 BO does the same thing in a smaller package.
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Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by JimTom » 07 Jan 2019, 9:54 am

The Ruger American Ranch in 300AAC would suit my purpose more than a 30/30 lever. Short light and fairly cheap to purchase.
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Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by Flyer » 09 Jan 2019, 3:30 am

CZ makes a nice little 527 carbine in 7.62x39. I shot a lot of 7.62x39 when I lived in Asia. AKs and SKS. The SKS was surprisingly accurate - I even won a rifle comp with one many years ago. Easy on the recoil. More accurate than most give it credit for. Can't comment on the others. I do like my lever action, though. But it's only a .22. My next rifle will probably be a Winchester 9422M (22 mag) lever. Or a 6mm PPC :lol:
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Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by Cooper » 09 Jan 2019, 11:24 am

JimTom wrote:
SCJ429 wrote:The 762 x 39 biggest downside is that it uses 311 projectiles. If you chambered a 308 barrel in it you would have a winner.

The Grendel is very accurate also, you could load it to shoot subsonic if you wanted to.

The 300 has a very narrow focus but if that is what floats your boat.....




Yeah mate agree about the .311 projectiles and the 7.62x39. Pity they aren't .308. Would be a winner there. That as I see it is the only advantage the 300AAC has over the 7.62x39.

Plus I have a surplus of .308 130gn projectiles that'd like to use. Still that's no reason to buy a rifle in that calibre.


Out of the three I already own a 6.5 Grendel. I went that direction because I like the Howa mini plantform and already having 6.5 Creedmoor I had a selection of lighter 6.5mm projectiles to try. I'm happy with the Grendel.
The Howa mini is being released in 300blk out. If I had had a selection of 30 cal projectiles it would probably interest me more.
But I like new toys. So I say the more the better.
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Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by JimTom » 09 Jan 2019, 3:21 pm

Flyer wrote:CZ makes a nice little 527 carbine in 7.62x39. I shot a lot of 7.62x39 when I lived in Asia. AKs and SKS. The SKS was surprisingly accurate - I even won a rifle comp with one many years ago. Easy on the recoil. More accurate than most give it credit for. Can't comment on the others. I do like my lever action, though. But it's only a .22. My next rifle will probably be a Winchester 9422M (22 mag) lever. Or a 6mm PPC :lol:



Mate I have had the opportunity to use a CZ 527 in 7.62x39 and I agree it's it is a nice bit of kit. CZ a bit to nice for what I want this for, plus set trigger a bit cumbersome for quick offhand shots.
The synthetic Ruger is something that can take a bit of field punishment.
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Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by Flyer » 09 Jan 2019, 6:13 pm

I had a 527 full stock (lovely rifle) in 223 and disabled the set trigger so that it worked only off the main trigger. It was a great little rifle which I only sold to buy a Sako 85 in the same cailbre.

At least with the Grendel you can have a stash of 6.5 projectiles to use for that and your 6.5 Creedmoor.
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Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by Urastus » 09 Jan 2019, 6:44 pm

There is one advantage of 300aac that nobody seems to have considered - it doesn't need a long barrel. 16" seems to be overkill according to those in the US who shoot with it. Many use 12" or even 10". I'd stay with 16". A short barrel would be awesome for the ranges you're talking about - I considered this for the same reason. No wasted flash bang going out the end of the barrel, unlike a 20" .308 or anything else that isn't pistol caliber. I decided I wanted accuracy at longer ranges.
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Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by SCJ429 » 09 Jan 2019, 8:41 pm

You have to stay over 16 inches if you want it to be legal as a rifle.

Lots of calibers work OK if you shoot subsonic and use a short barrel, straight walled big bore cases work very well with short barrels.
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Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by JimTom » 10 Jan 2019, 2:58 am

Flyer wrote:I had a 527 full stock (lovely rifle) in 223 and disabled the set trigger so that it worked only off the main trigger. It was a great little rifle which I only sold to buy a Sako 85 in the same cailbre.

At least with the Grendel you can have a stash of 6.5 projectiles to use for that and your 6.5 Creedmoor.



Yeah that's true mate, have 95gn Vmax and 123gn SST already. Was going to get around to trying them in my Creedmoor.
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Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by Flyer » 10 Jan 2019, 1:41 pm

According to all my books, 2209 gives the best velocity with 123gr 6.5CM bullets.

43.2gr of 2209 with 123gr Lapua Scenars shoots best in my 6.5CM Sako A7 - 0.375" 4-shot groups at 100m (well under 1/2 MOA) at 2815fps (chronoed).

44.2gr of 2209 shoots second best and was chronoed at 2880 - would make a good hunting round.

I also tested 45.2gr of 2209, which wasn't as accurate, but was a very fast load at 2960fps.

These should all be good ball-park figures for the 123gr SSTs. I loaded .015" off the lands, so OAL was 2.850" (2.865" to the lands with the 123gr Scenar). Lapua small primer cases (Starline SRP cases have almost identical case capacity) with CCI BR4 primers.
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Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by in2anity » 10 Jan 2019, 1:58 pm

I thought we were talking about Grendel?
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Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by JimTom » 10 Jan 2019, 4:24 pm

Yes mate we were, Flyer and I both have Creedmoors and the talk of a common projectile developed into a bit of a tangent in the conversation.
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Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by JimTom » 15 Feb 2019, 1:48 pm

Just ordered a Ruger American Ranch in 300AAC for those who are interested in which way I went.
They are on sale at the moment for a fairly good price. Couldn’t help myself. Looking forward to taking it out and putting a few down range before chasing a few close range hogs with it.
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Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by SCJ429 » 15 Feb 2019, 6:09 pm

Nice one, what bullet are you going to use for pigs?
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Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by JimTom » 15 Feb 2019, 8:18 pm

G’day ate I have a fair few 130gn Speer HP that I used in my .308 but 3000fps was a bit quick and I think they expanded to quickly giving no penetration.

Hoping they will go ok in the blackout as I have 1000 of them. Do you have any projectile suggestions mate?
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Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by Bill » 16 Feb 2019, 7:19 am

BO is bit of a dumpling past 200m but plenty for gun for pigs thou. I hate when sales influence a decision LOL. So what projectile will you be using, heavy or light ?
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Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by JimTom » 16 Feb 2019, 8:13 am

Bill wrote:BO is bit of a dumpling past 200m but plenty for gun for pigs thou. I hate when sales influence a decision LOL. So what projectile will you be using, heavy or light ?


Mate I only intend on using it <100m. Most of the shots where I go are fairly close. 300 AAC will be spot on for what I want it for. After conducting research, I have been leaning towards the 300AAC for a while anyhow, I have a fair few projectiles for it already, and I guess the sale is what sealed the deal. In saying that if the 7.62x39 was on sale I do t think I would have purchased it.
Will be trying some 130gn HP initially mate. Have a few laying around so am hoping they go well.
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Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by SCJ429 » 16 Feb 2019, 8:41 am

I don't have any experience with slow moving small projectiles, the only reduced hunting loads I have tried have been with big bores where you need something to open up at lower velocities. I wonder for you if the Speer TNT 125 would work. They are very frangable perhaps too much so. I will be interested to hear how your 130 grain Speer's go.
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Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by JimTom » 16 Feb 2019, 9:36 am

SCJ429 wrote:I don't have any experience with slow moving small projectiles, the only reduced hunting loads I have tried have been with big bores where you need something to open up at lower velocities. I wonder for you if the Speer TNT 125 would work. They are very frangable perhaps too much so. I will be interested to hear how your 130 grain Speer's go.


Thanks mate. Will try the 130’s first and they’re no good will prob try a 125 of some description. Thanks for the suggestion mate. Will keep it in mind.
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Re: 7.62x39 vs 300AAC vs 6.5 Grendel

Post by vmaxaust » 19 Feb 2019, 6:48 pm

300BLK is great. The latest Ranch rifle has AR magazines or you can use the original type with rotary mag. I have rotary mag Ranch in 300 as well as a Ranch in 223. Bargain, accurate and great bolt action on either.
I also have a 300BLK Warwick rifle which is amazing.
Everyone bags the poor old 300 but until you really explore its capabilities and advantages by owning them you have no idea.
I reload all my 223, 300, 303 rifle calibres. For the 300 I cast my own projectiles and Hi Tek coat them. In the Ranch rifle there is no problem using Hi Tek coated cast bullets even at 2200fps without gas checks. No leading whatsoever, very accurate to 200 metres (I don't shoot these beyond 100 most of the time).
I started loading with Sierra 135gr bullets very successfully but have switched more and more to cast the same way I did with 303's. Easy on the barrels and no leading.
Don't write off the 300. It's not just a fad, but of course it isn't for everyone. Some people need to get 10 shots into 1" at 300 metres.




JimTom wrote:G'day Gents

Have been doing a little research on the pro's and cons of the above mentioned cartridges for use as a close range (under 100M) pig buster. Looking at a Ruger American Ranch or Similar. Yes I know that rifle doesn't come in Grendel.

I think either one would be suitable, however I thought I would call on the brains trust to chuck their thoughts and opinions into the ring.

Thanks for your time in advance fellas, sincerely appreciated.
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