Hornet quandry

Calibres, cartridges, ballistics tables and ammunition information.

Hornet quandry

Post by Leadspitter » 07 May 2019, 9:03 pm

G , day hornet owners

I have been watchin for a while and have just joined up.

Looking to buy my first centre fire for fox bunnies feral cats.

I am keen on purchasing a softly spoken rifle to knock over ferals to 200 yards.

I am particularly interested in seeing the hit, not chasing red mist , just the hit , so i am thinking hornet , for low recoil , low noise

The 17 sounds like the go , but i have a few qualms.
Seems like brass quality of factory ammo is a bit iffy , i dont like the case head separation and leaky primer stories
Also I have read about 20 gr v maxes "splashing".

At the same time a couple of regulars say that they are having good results ,
I read recently that hornady has stopped making 25 gr hp , which is the factory ammo i was thinkin would be the go .

So could you give me a heads up on the brass and effectiveness of vmaxes on game

I am seriously considering the 22 hornet as well,
Downsides are loopier trajectory and possibly the extra recoil would prevent me seein the hit.
upside is that 45 gr sp ' s could be used on small porkers and goats at close range
From what i have read no brass issues , using ppu or highland loaded ammo
I am seriously thinkin reloading and i read that nosler and rws brass is premium ,at a price.

Sh-t i might get both for their different attibutes

hired a howa 223 pencil barrel at a sydney range the other day , could see several hits at 200 yards shootin 55 gr winnies so i am optimistic that shootin 30's out of a hornet would be doable as recoil rhat much less.

lookin at cz american , no varmint barrel for me.

I know , I could buy a perfectly good howa pencil barrel 223 for $700 and download it to 22 hornet and use the extra cash to buy some loadin gear and ammo but i dont want to , thanks all the same.

Thanks for reading the long post and for any advice.

Leadspitter out.

time flies like an arrow , fruit flies like a banana.
Did you hear about the bloke who stopped talking to himself , because of something he said ?
Leadspitter
Private
Private
 
Posts: 51
New South Wales

Re: Hornet quandry

Post by SCJ429 » 08 May 2019, 12:33 pm

You can see your hits with a 204 Ruger, it is an extremely effective varmint cartridge. More so than a 17 Hornet. The Hornet is a great little case but difficult to get good accuracy out of. The case is tiny and I find it hard to reload, fat fingers to blame there.

Vmax are an excellent varmint bullet for bunnies, foxes or Roos. Nosler ballistic tips are also excellent on varmints.
SCJ429
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 3208
New South Wales

Re: Hornet quandry

Post by bigrich » 08 May 2019, 1:12 pm

Mate, with the right rifle there’s great accuracy to be had with 22 hornet. I reload and can group 3 shots under a 5 cent piece at 100. I use 40 gn projectile and 12.5 gn of lil gun powder for reloading. Bin chrono at 2750 FPS. For what you want it for I reckon it’s a good thing . There’s other caliber for sure, 17 hmr projectile are a bit light, 204 sounds good but. I think if I was to buy
a new gun in 22 hornet, it’d be a weihrauch . Quality that’ll last a lifetime. Good luck with trying to choose, there’s lots of choice
User avatar
bigrich
Brigadier
Brigadier
 
Posts: 4483
Queensland

Re: Hornet quandry

Post by flutch » 08 May 2019, 1:14 pm

interested in what recoil you are experiencing in a 223? mine literally doesnt move.
Guns:
Rossi S/S 410
Lanber U/O 12 gauge
Adler B220PG 12 gauge
Ruger 22lr
Remington 270 win
Howa 223
Weatherby 300 Winmag

Bows:
G5 Quest Drive
G5 Prime Defy
flutch
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 447
Western Australia

Re: Hornet quandry

Post by bigrich » 08 May 2019, 2:28 pm

22 hornet doesn’t have recoil to speak of either. My CVA scout I had in 45-70 had a little bit......lol
User avatar
bigrich
Brigadier
Brigadier
 
Posts: 4483
Queensland

Re: Hornet quandry

Post by Chappo » 08 May 2019, 5:25 pm

No recoil in a 22 hornet.
I use 45gn factory ammo, I don’t reload and can put 3 shot groups under an inch at 100yd and see the hit.

I went 22 hornet for better knock down over the 17 and better in the wind.

“Loopiness” in trajectory is easily overcome with a bit of experience with your rifle. Sure a flatter shooter can be easier to use but once you know your rifle and it’s hold overs its not a drawback.

Not trying to talk you out of a 17hornet but I’d rather the 22hornet for 100yd - 200yd small game.
Chappo
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 251
New South Wales

Re: Hornet quandry

Post by Chappo » 08 May 2019, 5:27 pm

If you wanna whack little critters at 150yd with a tiny pill then put some diesel in your air rifle :lol: :lol:
I didn’t say that :wtf:
Chappo
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 251
New South Wales

Re: Hornet quandry

Post by TassieTiger » 08 May 2019, 5:32 pm

Chappo wrote:If you wanna whack little critters at 150yd with a tiny pill then put some diesel in your air rifle :lol: :lol:
I didn’t say that :wtf:


Second this but be prepared for the MUCH louder sound as the pellet rips into supersonic land.
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
TassieTiger
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3704
Tasmania

Re: Hornet quandry

Post by Leadspitter » 08 May 2019, 6:02 pm

Thanks for the replies fellas ,

I will say i like the weirauchs , real walnut , czs look like stained beech to me so mmaybe.

204 are lazers so i hear , but LOUD

Recoil of 223 in a 30" varmint barrel heavy stocked combo is tame , a pencil barreled hollow synthetic stock is more
nothing to be afraid of but enough to take some effort maintain sight picture particularly with poor cheek weld

I plan on doing some whistling and using my fox pro to call in foxes ,
so i am planning to sit with my back against a tree cradling rifle on my knees so the less recoil the better walking between stands or on a motor bike i don t want to be lugging around a varmint weight rig

shots will be shorter rather than longer whistling

long shots while spotlighting out of ute , obviously

so hence the shorter distance calibre

I still think the 22 has a lot going for it.

Hold over for me is difficult as i have a thick picket post reticle that would odscure target some .

Thanks guys , i am leaning ytowards the 17 AS my field craft range guesstimation aint so good as i havent had much time in the field , and the seventeens flatness takes the need for that skill out of the equation, when getting started .

Up till now i have only been using 22lr so i have a bit to learn.

cheers , Leadspitter out.
Did you hear about the bloke who stopped talking to himself , because of something he said ?
Leadspitter
Private
Private
 
Posts: 51
New South Wales

Re: Hornet quandry

Post by SCJ429 » 08 May 2019, 6:03 pm

flutch wrote:interested in what recoil you are experiencing in a 223? mine literally doesnt move.


I use a Tikka Varmint 223 and at 300 metres I always loose my sight picture. With a Varmint 204 I can watch my hits or misses
SCJ429
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 3208
New South Wales

Re: Hornet quandry

Post by Stix » 08 May 2019, 6:06 pm

TassieTiger wrote:
Chappo wrote:If you wanna whack little critters at 150yd with a tiny pill then put some diesel in your air rifle :lol: :lol:
I didn’t say that :wtf:


Second this but be prepared for the MUCH louder sound as the pellet rips into supersonic land.

Really... :o ...
Cool...!! 8-)
Now i wana try that...!!...but dont have an air rifle any more... :thumbsdown:
The man who knows everything, doesnt really know everything...he's just stopped learning...
Stix
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3675
South Australia

Re: Hornet quandry

Post by JimTom » 08 May 2019, 6:12 pm

Nothing wrong with a CZ527 in .22Hornet mate. That would be my pick.
User avatar
JimTom
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
 
Posts: 2130
Queensland

Re: Hornet quandry

Post by bladeracer » 08 May 2019, 6:19 pm

Leadspitter wrote:G , day hornet owners

I have been watchin for a while and have just joined up.

Looking to buy my first centre fire for fox bunnies feral cats.

I am keen on purchasing a softly spoken rifle to knock over ferals to 200 yards.

I am particularly interested in seeing the hit, not chasing red mist , just the hit , so i am thinking hornet , for low recoil , low noise

The 17 sounds like the go , but i have a few qualms.
Seems like brass quality of factory ammo is a bit iffy , i dont like the case head separation and leaky primer stories
Also I have read about 20 gr v maxes "splashing".

At the same time a couple of regulars say that they are having good results ,
I read recently that hornady has stopped making 25 gr hp , which is the factory ammo i was thinkin would be the go .

So could you give me a heads up on the brass and effectiveness of vmaxes on game

I am seriously considering the 22 hornet as well,
Downsides are loopier trajectory and possibly the extra recoil would prevent me seein the hit.
upside is that 45 gr sp ' s could be used on small porkers and goats at close range
From what i have read no brass issues , using ppu or highland loaded ammo
I am seriously thinkin reloading and i read that nosler and rws brass is premium ,at a price.

Sh-t i might get both for their different attibutes

hired a howa 223 pencil barrel at a sydney range the other day , could see several hits at 200 yards shootin 55 gr winnies so i am optimistic that shootin 30's out of a hornet would be doable as recoil rhat much less.

lookin at cz american , no varmint barrel for me.

I know , I could buy a perfectly good howa pencil barrel 223 for $700 and download it to 22 hornet and use the extra cash to buy some loadin gear and ammo but i dont want to , thanks all the same.

Thanks for reading the long post and for any advice.

Leadspitter out.

time flies like an arrow , fruit flies like a banana.


If you are going to reload why restrict yourself to the Hornets?
Go .204, .223, or even .243. All can be loaded down to levels of .22LR if you need to, and all will shoot well at Hornet levels. And when you do want to shoot further or at larger targets they'll allow you to do that as well.
If you are stuck on the Hornets I would go with the .22 over the .17, just for the added versatility.
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: Hornet quandry

Post by bladeracer » 08 May 2019, 6:21 pm

Chappo wrote:“Loopiness” in trajectory is easily overcome with a bit of experience with your rifle. Sure a flatter shooter can be easier to use but once you know your rifle and it’s hold overs its not a drawback.

Not trying to talk you out of a 17hornet but I’d rather the 22hornet for 100yd - 200yd small game.


Flatter trajectory is really only advantageous when spotlighting due to the difficulty of judging distance.
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: Hornet quandry

Post by bladeracer » 08 May 2019, 6:23 pm

Leadspitter wrote:I plan on doing some whistling and using my fox pro to call in foxes ,
so i am planning to sit with my back against a tree cradling rifle on my knees so the less recoil the better walking between stands or on a motor bike i don t want to be lugging around a varmint weight rig

shots will be shorter rather than longer whistling


This is what I use reduced .204 loads for, 2400fps 32gn bullets gives me basically a .22 Hornet for close-range. But I can still drop in some 24gn 4400fps loads if I see a long-range shot.
Last edited by bladeracer on 08 May 2019, 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: Hornet quandry

Post by Stix » 08 May 2019, 6:27 pm

Im offended you only acknowledge hornet owners leadspitter...!!
What about wana-be hornet owners..whats wrong with us... :unknown:

:lol: just kidding... :thumbsup:

.Well im an advocate for the 204..especially if its varminting you want to do & wiilling/intending to reload.

If you've been lurking a while & reading other threads on the 204 you'll already know why (i think) its more versatile than a hornet...but ill say it again anyway.

Shoots fast & flat.
Hits very hard for such a little bullet.
If reloading you can pretty much replicate the hornet by loading with trailboss powder...
With full loads, it can be messy, (but then so can a hornet with ballistic tips) but its about an emphatic and humane kill, not about the "red mist"...

Its a ripper of a cartridge...!!...& if its your first rifle, id advocate you buying a '2 in 1' like the 204...or 222, or 223 to load down.
But...dont get me wrong--there's nothing wrong with a hornet...!!
:drinks:
The man who knows everything, doesnt really know everything...he's just stopped learning...
Stix
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3675
South Australia

Re: Hornet quandry

Post by SCJ429 » 08 May 2019, 6:31 pm

A flatter trajectory usually means more speed which equals better terminal performance and better wind bucking which can be handy all the time.
SCJ429
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 3208
New South Wales

Re: Hornet quandry

Post by Chappo » 08 May 2019, 6:41 pm

Stix wrote:
TassieTiger wrote:
Chappo wrote:If you wanna whack little critters at 150yd with a tiny pill then put some diesel in your air rifle :lol: :lol:
I didn’t say that :wtf:


Second this but be prepared for the MUCH louder sound as the pellet rips into supersonic land.

Really... :o ...
Cool...!! 8-)
Now i wana try that...!!...but dont have an air rifle any more... :thumbsdown:



Stix mate, YouTube “air rifle dieseling” ;)
Chappo
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 251
New South Wales

Re: Hornet quandry

Post by Oldbloke » 08 May 2019, 7:00 pm

"I know , I could buy a perfectly good howa pencil barrel 223 for $700 and download it to 22 hornet and use the extra cash to buy some loadin gear and ammo but i dont want to , thanks all the same."

Bad decision. Buy a 222 or 223 and reload. I use both a "normal" and a "hornet" load out of my 223.
The greatest invention in the history of man is beer.
https://youtu.be/2v3QrUvYj-Y
Member. SFFP, Shooters Union.
SSAA, the powerful gun lobby. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Hunt safe.
User avatar
Oldbloke
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 11192
Victoria

Re: Hornet quandry

Post by Stix » 08 May 2019, 7:07 pm

Chappo wrote:
Stix wrote:
TassieTiger wrote:
Chappo wrote:If you wanna whack little critters at 150yd with a tiny pill then put some diesel in your air rifle :lol: :lol:
I didn’t say that :wtf:


Second this but be prepared for the MUCH louder sound as the pellet rips into supersonic land.

Really... :o ...
Cool...!! 8-)
Now i wana try that...!!...but dont have an air rifle any more... :thumbsdown:



Stix mate, YouTube “air rifle dieseling” ;)

NO...!! I will NOT do that...!!
Ive 2 guns on layby i can afford...if i do that ill have 3...!!

Hell i looked at usedgns this morning for the first time since i payed deposit on the second last one, & wanted to buy another 2... :crazy: :roll:

Its a conspiracy to send me broke...!!

Get lost...!!!
.
.
.
.
:sarcasm:
. :lol:
:drinks:
The man who knows everything, doesnt really know everything...he's just stopped learning...
Stix
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3675
South Australia

Re: Hornet quandry

Post by marksman » 08 May 2019, 7:11 pm

the 17 hornet is a very capable round but it does have the problem of crappy factory brass
I make them for a couple of friends in ppu brass no different than I do for my 17 ackleys, these guys both went and bought there 17 hornets after I gave them a few shots fireforming brass at 200 out of one of my 17 ackley's, one had his in 5 days and the other had his in 7 days
the 17 ackley is 2mm longer than the 17 hornet, it was the fox shooters round when the skins were worth money, if you shoot a fox in the chest you have to skin it to find the hole and when you pick up the fox it feels like broken egg shells under the skin

enoughgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=10968

you have a good handle on what they can and cant do and problems associated
if they were not any good I would not waste my time with them but they are for some and not everyone, works for me

enoughgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=10907

the 20gr vmax is ok for head shooting rabbits and foxes out to 250 but if you want to shoot anything bigger I would suggest using the 25gr hornady hollow points
I haven't yet tried any of the bergers but expect they would go well
“If you do not read the newspapers you are uninformed. If you do read the newspapers you are misinformed”. Mark Twain
User avatar
marksman
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3660
Victoria

Re: Hornet quandry

Post by bigrich » 08 May 2019, 7:32 pm

I’ve played with trail boss in my hornet, at around 85-90% case fill, 3.6 gn’s ! , i was getting excellent accuracy at 50 yards and 1550fps with a 35 gn vmax and it sounds like a 22 lr. My fast 40 gn load uses 12.5 gn of lil gun for 2750fps. Ya get a lot of reloading out of a container of powder. As fo factory ammo Rem hollow points shot just under a inch at 100 at best,win hp’s have shot well in the past but the last box I bought wasn’t real flash . The only downside with old Brno’s is the extractor doesn’t like top loading, load with the mag or risk breaking it. I’m not sure if this is the same with the Cz 527. My only negative comment on otherwise fine rifles.
User avatar
bigrich
Brigadier
Brigadier
 
Posts: 4483
Queensland

Re: Hornet quandry

Post by bigrich » 08 May 2019, 7:44 pm

Another fine old fox round, 17 rem. My own 22 “walk around “ rifle is my model 70 Winchester in 222. The following group was shot by a mate in my rifle with 60 vmax at 100. The 60’s have a trajectory that’s close to my 6.5x55 at 100 and 200 , with 2800fps with 21.5 gn of benchmark 2 . I can get 55’s going faster, but I like the 60’s accuracy and better wind bucking abilities :thumbsup:
Attachments
image.jpg
3 shots 60 vmax at 100
image.jpg (1.27 MiB) Viewed 5997 times
User avatar
bigrich
Brigadier
Brigadier
 
Posts: 4483
Queensland

Re: Hornet quandry

Post by JimTom » 08 May 2019, 8:00 pm

Nothing wrong with that at all mate. Nice load.
User avatar
JimTom
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
 
Posts: 2130
Queensland

Re: Hornet quandry

Post by bigrich » 08 May 2019, 9:04 pm

JimTom wrote:Nothing wrong with that at all mate. Nice load.


the ole 222 is a nice cartridge that makes good accuracy easy. that group and others like it were shot of a fold out cheapie tripod front rest and a caldwell bean bag under the butt. no lead sleds and viced rests for me ;) it made me mates day when he shot that group . straight after that he shot a perfect clover leaf out of his 222 brno fox , so he was on a roll that morning :D

anyway, back to hornet. the following pic is the trailboss load with 35 vmax at 50

:drinks: :drinks: :thumbsup:
User avatar
bigrich
Brigadier
Brigadier
 
Posts: 4483
Queensland

Re: Hornet quandry

Post by bigrich » 08 May 2019, 9:07 pm

The following is a 3.6 gn T/B load crimped with a 35 vmax
Attachments
image.jpg
Trail boss load
image.jpg (1.33 MiB) Viewed 5991 times
User avatar
bigrich
Brigadier
Brigadier
 
Posts: 4483
Queensland

Re: Hornet quandry

Post by Bills Shed » 08 May 2019, 9:43 pm

I own and reload for both the 17 and 22 Hornet. I also run a 223R. For the small critters including foxes the 17 is by far my favourite rifle. If you have heard that the 17H has issues grouping, that is a crock of crapp. The 22h was a bit more work. As for splashing, I have not seen this. Never had a issue. As for poor brass maybe once and I did get some of the the so called doddgy brass but I have shot it many times and with the usual case prep they are fine. If you want , you can neck down 22 hornet brass if you think it would be better. I have made many 17H cases like this.
I do notice the the 22H has more knock down power but a well placed 17 pill kills them just as dead.
As to a 204, noisy bloody thing. Wakes up the world and why burn twice as much powder to make a critter just as dead.
As to getting 17 cal projectiles of heavier weights, I am making 22gn ATM and 25 and 30gn if you want them. Factory projectiles are not too hard to find. You also have the choice of 17gn pills. For the 17H shooting 30s, you loose a lot of velocity but they hit hard and I have used them on goats. The 20gn Max brothers at 20gn you can buy in bulk very cheaply and are an excellent pill. I have tried loading the 17H down but below 1400fps projectile performance is poor so push them hard and make use of the high velocity.
Within its limits there is not too much to like about the little 17H.
Bill
Swaging your own projectiles is the ultimate in flexibility.
Bills Shed
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 433
Tasmania

Re: Hornet quandry

Post by duncan61 » 08 May 2019, 9:46 pm

I am not sure how long Trailboss has been around but years ago trying to get subsonic loads I put 4gn AS50 behind 80 gn Matchkings in a H&R hornet. My logic was the same barrel is bored for 45/70 so it was not going to blow up.It was quiet but went sideways through the target at 25 metres.I knew nothing about barrel twist.Off topic but I was considering selling my Ruger .222 as I have removed the scope and put it on the .243.This topic has made me change my mind and I have been paid out on a few contracts so now I am going to get a slim scope 6X for the .222 and start playing with subsonic loads.
.22 winchester .22hornet .222 .243 7mm rem mag cbc 12g
User avatar
duncan61
Officer Cadet
Officer Cadet
 
Posts: 1905
Western Australia

Re: Hornet quandry

Post by bladeracer » 08 May 2019, 10:07 pm

duncan61 wrote:I am not sure how long Trailboss has been around but years ago trying to get subsonic loads I put 4gn AS50 behind 80 gn Matchkings in a H&R hornet. My logic was the same barrel is bored for 45/70 so it was not going to blow up.It was quiet but went sideways through the target at 25 metres.I knew nothing about barrel twist.Off topic but I was considering selling my Ruger .222 as I have removed the scope and put it on the .243.This topic has made me change my mind and I have been paid out on a few contracts so now I am going to get a slim scope 6X for the .222 and start playing with subsonic loads.


I used IMR4198 in .222Rem to load it right down until the bullet was barely falling out the muzzle.
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: Hornet quandry

Post by duncan61 » 08 May 2019, 10:38 pm

My first load was 3gn AS50 and the 80gn was halfway down the 22 inch Barrel I learned you can push them out but it takes a bit of effort.Back to the O.P. If he does not get a .222/.223 and download man is a fool.I am pretty sure rifles cost the same regardless of chamber.I bought the H&R Handi rifle cos Hornet was the only centrefire you could get on a low power license in W.A. and on the dairy farm where I lived I shot a lot of foxes.I kept it open sights I could see then
.22 winchester .22hornet .222 .243 7mm rem mag cbc 12g
User avatar
duncan61
Officer Cadet
Officer Cadet
 
Posts: 1905
Western Australia

Next

Back to top
 
Return to Calibres, cartridges and ballistics