300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by nightforcenxs » 16 Jun 2019, 2:42 pm

flutch wrote:
TassieTiger wrote:andvim sure the 700 would be a better quality


Don't be so sure, Remington aren't renowned lately for good QC and have produced more than a few duds in the last few years


what flutch said i would choose a howa over a remington these days but go back more then 10 years and remington was a nice rifle..... as for something big in caliber 300 norma mag is nice but lapua brass is $325 for 100 and that caliber needs a lapua size action so it makes it limited to that caliber barrel life is about 1000 shots if your into target shooting. 300 rum isnt much better either. 300 win mag and 300 wsm are similar the benchrest guys like 300 wsm and norma brass has good life. as for shooting decent size caliber like 375 H&H being the small magnum i load 270gr speers at 2700fps in my ruger no 1 and shoot off the bench but the shoulder knows about it after 10 shots for the day and 50 308 shots :D
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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by duncan61 » 16 Jun 2019, 5:57 pm

My Remington Sendero is way better built than the 1500 Howa I have
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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by flutch » 16 Jun 2019, 6:52 pm

duncan61 wrote:My Remington Sendero is way better built than the 1500 Howa I have


Yeah, perhaps, but then you could go buy another sandero tomorrow and have no end of trouble with it
Guns:
Rossi S/S 410
Lanber U/O 12 gauge
Adler B220PG 12 gauge
Ruger 22lr
Remington 270 win
Howa 223
Weatherby 300 Winmag

Bows:
G5 Quest Drive
G5 Prime Defy
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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 17 Jun 2019, 8:12 pm

duncan61 wrote:My Remington Sendero is way better built than the 1500 Howa I have

Fair enough mate, and considering its nearly 4x the price I would expect it to be
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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by duncan61 » 17 Jun 2019, 8:35 pm

I think the Sendero was $2750 list price just for the rifle when I bought mine second hand and the Howa was $700 complete with scope so yeah 4 times the price
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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by duncan61 » 17 Jun 2019, 8:39 pm

Remington 700 Sendero SF II

$2,575.00
DESCRIPTION
Overview:
Built on the famous Model 700TM cylindrical action, Remington Sendero rifles are the most accurate rifles we produce for over-the-counter sale. You'll be stunned by the degree of precision you get straight out of the box. The varmints won't be so lucky.
The Model 700 Sendero SF II are finely tuned tack-drivers created using input from serious shooters across America. The stock is reinforced with aramid fibers and features contoured beavertail fore-end with ambidextrous finger grooves and palm swell. Twin front swivel studs accommodate a sling and a bipod. Full-length aluminum bedding blocks create accuracy-enhancing platforms for the barreled actions. The 26" heavy-contour barrels are fluted for rapid cooling.
Key Features:
26" heavy contour barrel (0.820" Muzzle O.D.) for the ultimate in long-range accuracy.
Concave target-style barrel crown.
Composite stock with beavertail fore-end.
Chambered for popular Magnum and Remington Ultra Magnum cartridges.
Black stock with grey webbing.
AVAILABLE IN CALS 264 WINMAG,7MMREMMAG,300 WINMAG,7MMREM ULTRAMAG,300REM ULTRAMAG
AVAILABLE ON ORDER This is the same one I have
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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by duncan61 » 17 Jun 2019, 9:08 pm

I have no regrets owning a Remington Sendero in 7mm Rem Mag.I actually paid the previous owner $4000 but it came with a leupold scope about 50 rounds of top grade ammo the reloading dies a hard case and he let me pay it off over a few months as we were working together on the same building site.
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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by TassieTiger » 17 Jun 2019, 9:16 pm

duncan61 wrote:Remington 700 Sendero SF II

$2,575.00
DESCRIPTION
Overview:
Built on the famous Model 700TM cylindrical action, Remington Sendero rifles are the most accurate rifles we produce for over-the-counter sale. You'll be stunned by the degree of precision you get straight out of the box. The varmints won't be so lucky.
The Model 700 Sendero SF II are finely tuned tack-drivers created using input from serious shooters across America. The stock is reinforced with aramid fibers and features contoured beavertail fore-end with ambidextrous finger grooves and palm swell. Twin front swivel studs accommodate a sling and a bipod. Full-length aluminum bedding blocks create accuracy-enhancing platforms for the barreled actions. The 26" heavy-contour barrels are fluted for rapid cooling.
Key Features:
26" heavy contour barrel (0.820" Muzzle O.D.) for the ultimate in long-range accuracy.
Concave target-style barrel crown.
Composite stock with beavertail fore-end.
Chambered for popular Magnum and Remington Ultra Magnum cartridges.
Black stock with grey webbing.
AVAILABLE IN CALS 264 WINMAG,7MMREMMAG,300 WINMAG,7MMREM ULTRAMAG,300REM ULTRAMAG
AVAILABLE ON ORDER This is the same one I have


But the question for me is - how much worse will the $700 howa real world shoot, than the Remington OR is there a possibility that the $700 HOWA will shoot better than the remington ? - what guarantees do I have that I will get a minute rifle by spending 4 times more money ? Given that HOWA are guaranteeing MOA accuracy - Id have to be guaranteed 3/4 or 1/2 MOA from the Rem to make it worth while...
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by duncan61 » 17 Jun 2019, 9:46 pm

I believe the Sendero was made for North American hunters who wished to take out deer at 400-500 yards.To make something to do the same job would cost around $2500-$3000.They sold a lot of them apparently.The American military has had a play with 7mm Rem Mag as a sniper outfit as well.I was just lucky to get mine as I had been to the range with my .222 and it did not make it to 400 yards and at lunch I walked to the LGS and read the ballistic charts on what could shoot 1000 yards.The 22/250 is pretty flat out to 500 but the 7mm was flatter at 1000.When I got back to the site the builder asked if I had found what I needed and I told him the Electrical contractor piped up he had one.As He described what he had I said its about $4000 worth and he sold it to me.He was going through a messy split up and sold all his toys.It was a while ago and I am satisfied I have had my moneys worth.I still have some Remington corelokt and other big game ammo but the 100gn Sierra game kings at 3300fps make me smile and the 168 Matchkings fly out to 1000
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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by TassieTiger » 17 Jun 2019, 10:00 pm

I have no doubt that come sale time - a Remington is going to command more than an equally accurate howa.

If Marksman hadn’t told me about mag length loading on TIKKAS and the implications - especially poignant on the 300 win it seems - then I’d have a 26inch 300win tikka here right now...$1500 odd for almost guaranteed accuracy and very flat shooting 180gns out to 800m ? Sign me up.
But - so many people - on here and elsewhere - are now rating the howa as a bloody good shooter that is now fully guaranteed for accuracy and for 24inch varmint and threaded barrel are $599...and again as MM said, as a base platform - imagine what you can do throwing another grand or so at it...?
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by mickb » 17 Jun 2019, 11:50 pm

mainly depends what makes you hardest in the pants mate. Owning the fastest, or the most economical, or the most available or maybe like the idea of something no one has. I don't think you can make a bad decision, they all do roughly the same thing. As usual above you got one reply saying you dont want the calibre you want :D

I will say at the top ends of the scale stuff like the 30-378 (an elephant gun necked down to 30cal, 130 grains water capacity) is pretty specialised with a range of provisos to own one. Recoil will be a slightly different level and the amount of powder it burns will start eating throats after a few hundred rounds, you will want to figure in replacement barrels if you are shooting big quantities. The 300 rum is a little bit of a barrel cooker as well with 110 grains water capacity. 300 win for the record has about 89. Brass and components will always be available for most these 30's, coming from a 400cal+ rifle background, most things 30 cal are not hard to find.
My choice just for macho factor, if this is to be your one off 'Cool as f***' gun would be to go a bit bigger than 300win. Give yourself a serious margin over 30-06 etc.
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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by duncan61 » 18 Jun 2019, 12:03 am

I checked out the latest Howa options.That is value for money.I am sure when I got my .243 Howa there was only lightweight barrels with plastic stocks and not in Magnum chambers.If I had to do it now I would go the Howa pathway for sure.
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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by TassieTiger » 18 Jun 2019, 1:05 am

I’ve bounced this around for a ling time - my ultimate cartridge is a 338 lap but at this time, with my limited experience in big rifles, I’m going to commit to the 300 win. I’ve tonight - bought dies, cases, oal gauge etc to lock me in and stop me annoying every bloody person I talk too about big .3’s.

Me”wifey, do you think the 300 rum is worth the extra over the win?” “Is the win a big enough jump over the 06 - I mean 60gns powder vs 80 gns is reasonable?”
Her”I don’t give a shed, just shut the hell up and buy something so I don’t have to listen to your crap any longer”
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by flutch » 18 Jun 2019, 3:32 am

duncan61 wrote:I believe the Sendero was made for North American hunters who wished to take out deer at 400-500 yards.To make something to do the same job would cost around $2500-$3000.



Nah

Not even, plenty of Yanks taking out moose, elk, deer, bears etc etc at those ranges using out of the box savages, Ruger Americans, Remington 783, Marlin bolt actions, mossbergs, winchesters, zastavas, howa, etc etc in plastic fantastic stocks and the scopes that come on the gun in kit form all for under $800aud even as low as $280usd, sub moa is sub moa, if a gun can shoot sub moa it's on target, it's that simple no need for anything else, if it's good to go it's good to go, no difference between a rem783 shooting 3/4" moa and a sandero shooting 3/4"moa, especially in a hunting situation. Granted in Australia we have the arse ache of not being able to simply swap out a dud rifle, but given rems reputation lately last thing I would do is drop big money on one expecting a guarantee of accuracy.
Guns:
Rossi S/S 410
Lanber U/O 12 gauge
Adler B220PG 12 gauge
Ruger 22lr
Remington 270 win
Howa 223
Weatherby 300 Winmag

Bows:
G5 Quest Drive
G5 Prime Defy
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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by TassieTiger » 19 Jun 2019, 9:25 pm

Well - very interesting development.
I took the advertisement for the houge stocked 24 inch varmint barrel 300wm howa into my local gun shop and said, I don’t mind paying a couple hundred extra to keep the dollars local - order me one please. I then got a call saying they couldn’t buy the action for that price and it would be over a grand to buy locally - which puts it close to tikka, sauer, etc. sooo, given I already have a tikka, cz, sauer, steyr, etc - I’ve purchased the Howa...so once it turns up and I can start shooting, I now wonder whom I’ll vote for in the best gun bulldust debate lol.
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by bigrich » 20 Jun 2019, 4:56 am

Make sure you give us a full report when you start playing with the Howa taz. At the end of the day it’s personal choice when choosing a gun . I like to buy older firearms and tweak and rebarrel as nesesary. Not the cheapest way to do things, but the way some of my rifles shoot gives me great satisfaction.
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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by TassieTiger » 20 Jun 2019, 12:16 pm

My ol ex sniper mate, has just dropped $1500 on a tikka stainless lite in....300 WM. He was very worried about recoil given his age but I stirred him enough lol.
So I guess you could say - it’s on like donkey Kong. (That’s a game reference for all you young arsewipes)
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by SCJ429 » 20 Jun 2019, 7:13 pm

bigrich wrote:Make sure you give us a full report when you start playing with the Howa taz. At the end of the day it’s personal choice when choosing a gun . I like to buy older firearms and tweak and rebarrel as nesesary. Not the cheapest way to do things, but the way some of my rifles shoot gives me great satisfaction.


I am with you Rich, get the action you want and stick a decent barrel on it. A$600 Maddco barrel will do wonders for any rifle and you can choose your caliber and reamer specs.
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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by TassieTiger » 20 Jun 2019, 8:46 pm

Are 300wm reloaders crimping their projectiles? Is it because of the shallow neck?
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by flutch » 20 Jun 2019, 9:05 pm

i dont but im hunting with mine not trying to break long distance records
Guns:
Rossi S/S 410
Lanber U/O 12 gauge
Adler B220PG 12 gauge
Ruger 22lr
Remington 270 win
Howa 223
Weatherby 300 Winmag

Bows:
G5 Quest Drive
G5 Prime Defy
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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by SCJ429 » 20 Jun 2019, 9:41 pm

Don't crimp for any of your loads, try and use the least amount of neck tension you can get away with. The short neck is of no consequence.
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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by TassieTiger » 20 Jun 2019, 10:02 pm

Cheers for info - die set came with crimper, had me wondering why...
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by bigrich » 21 Jun 2019, 5:01 am

The only cartridge I crimp is 22 hornet . It does help with accuracy in the hornet by stopping bullet jump. I did have to come back a tiny bit on powder cause of pressure increases due to the crimping. 357 in my lever gun is crimped for obvious reasons. I have tried crimping other cartridges but it was detrimental to accuracy in them so I stopped. I believe some cartridges attain good accuracy from long necks which helps with projectile allingnment and more neck tension. 22 hornet is a example of this as the deeper the projectile is seated in the thin brass necks the more accuracy is gained .22 hornet has been a great learning caliber for me . 222 and 30-06 are a prime example of long necks working well. love my 222. At least this has been my experience, others will have their own opinions and what works for them.
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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by marksman » 21 Jun 2019, 3:54 pm

TassieTiger wrote:Are 300wm reloaders crimping their projectiles? Is it because of the shallow neck?


the reason for a light crimp is because of the long jump you usually find in factory chambers to get a more even start pressure
if you can get your projectiles to touch the lands and load to the lands its of no benefit
I like a neck tension that will not allow my bullets to be pulled by hand but only just
I do use a light crimp on some rounds and have seen benefit but it's something you will need to play with to see :drinks:

I have a couple of hundy norma cases that keep calling me "buy a 300wm" :lol:
I wont be doing it for a bit as I'm putting money into the boat but maybe after snapper season early next year :thumbsup:
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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by TassieTiger » 21 Jun 2019, 4:16 pm

I don’t know how cl***** get their prices to the point they do - my lgs showed me how many $$$ they purchase the exact same howa 300wm in varmint 1:10 for and that number is a lot higher whole sale price, than the Cl****** s retail price...pretty crazy really.

I can’t wait for it to turn up and start developing a load...
Next question will me muzzle brake or no muzzle brake...
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by Member-Deleted » 21 Jun 2019, 5:26 pm

It's probably buying power the more you sell the cheaper you can buy them I had the very same problem with steel when I had the workshop I couldn't compete with price compared to the bigger workshops
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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by TassieTiger » 21 Jun 2019, 5:35 pm

Yeah - I get that GB to a degree. But when your retail is 40% better than the next persons wholesale - something doesn’t add up. I mean it’s great for consumers but as a previous small business owner, I don’t know how it is survivable
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by bigrich » 21 Jun 2019, 6:57 pm

TassieTiger wrote:Yeah - I get that GB to a degree. But when your retail is 40% better than the next persons wholesale - something doesn’t add up. I mean it’s great for consumers but as a previous small business owner, I don’t know how it is survivable


the shop that starts with a big C is about 45 mins up the road from me taz. BIG shop lots of stock. amazing collectables on the wall all around. german flamethrower, bren gun .owen gun . PIAT anti tank launcher , german mp40 , thompson smg ,. the list goes on . i think there's even a mg42 fer christ sake :shock: all deactivated and bolted to the wall. then there's the colt room. probably 1/2 a million worth of old original colt peacemakers, 36 navy's , schofield pistols . it easy to spend quite a few hours there. i've heard their besties with THE major importer into this country . mates rates on prices and they buy bulk . that's what i've heard anyway :unknown:

:drinks: :drinks: :thumbsup:
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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by TassieTiger » 21 Jun 2019, 7:42 pm

I have flown up there to check it out - their museum quality walls and displays of old hand guns are bloody fantastic.
Have to watch the slippy floor from everyone’s drool. Lol. One of the better shops to browse.
I got told a similar thing BR. As in, my local shop attended a known scope brand launch where dealers were promised 40-50% wholesale discounts for just attending, but when they got there - thee was no stock left and there was a “preferred” dealer launch a couple days earlier, where all stock was accounted for...only 2 businesses attended the preferred launch. I guess it’s not really a unique situation.
Last edited by TassieTiger on 21 Jun 2019, 7:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by marksman » 21 Jun 2019, 7:53 pm

I heard they import themselves so there is your saving especially if you are buying bin bulk at the same time :thumbsup:
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