300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by marksman » 22 Jun 2019, 12:38 pm

I dont believe you need a brake myself but that's not to say you shouldn't :unknown:
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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by SCJ429 » 22 Jun 2019, 2:45 pm

Everyone has their own recoil tolerance and better to use a break than be intimidated by a rifle and never shoot it. Practice also builds confidence and you will enjoy shooting it more. I have a 416 with a heavy barrel and some lead in the back of the stock which does not have a break. I do use a break on a 378 WM because it is such a handful without it and it affects my shooting. I also use the 378 mostly shooting prone and it knocks me around without the break and I do not look forward to pulling the trigger.
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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by Mark » 10 Jul 2019, 6:39 am

My mate has just built a 300 norma, Its the latest craze apparently ! Ballistics on paper put it above the Winmag. The other advantage you have is your .260, its got
the same ballistics as the winmag @ 1000m
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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by TassieTiger » 12 Jul 2019, 1:08 pm

Wouldn’t ballistics be determined by the load rather than the caliber?

Picked it up this afternoon - 1st impressions are very good. Heavy but solid built...bolt is solid - not tikka smooth yet - but nicely firm.
Ole mate picks up his tikka lite next week - then let the ass kicking begin lol...(one way or the other)
Thanks to Marksman and some back end advice - I might just have a chance of showing this ole boy a comparable group.
Stay tuned. Game on lol.
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by TassieTiger » 12 Jul 2019, 3:40 pm

Mr and Mrs Tiger would like to announce the safe arrival of Holly Howa Tiger, born 11/7/19 at 37 bloody pounds. Lol. Thanks to Godfather MM for his assistance.
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Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by marksman » 12 Jul 2019, 5:38 pm

I have to say Tassie that I am very envious
I have the money to get one or to buy a new welder that I need to weld some alli parts for the boat and I'm talking myself into not needing the parts :lol:
maybe it will be next years mission I think

now is the time to check the rifle out and see if you want to do some tweaks, for example lighten the trigger and lap recoil lugs
getting the bolt to be smooth isn't that hard just polish the raceways
its good that you got the threaded muzzle just in case you want to fit a brake :thumbsup:
are you going to let the missus have a crack, I always found that lady's are a bit more recoil tolerant and usually can shoot the bigger cals pretty good
and the fun begins :drinks:
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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by SCJ429 » 12 Jul 2019, 6:55 pm

What bullet are you planning to shoot Tassie? I have had success with the 220 ELDX.
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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by Mark » 12 Jul 2019, 8:40 pm

TassieTiger wrote:Wouldn’t ballistics be determined by the load rather than the caliber?



All the 300's you've named are the same Caliber ! There ballistics are determined by powder weight.
But when comparing ballistics Of different calibers. Its there charge weight vs there projectile weight efficiency.
I have both the 300wm & 260rem, love them both, enjoy your new toy :thumbsup:
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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by TassieTiger » 12 Jul 2019, 8:51 pm

SCJ429 wrote:What bullet are you planning to shoot Tassie? I have had success with the 220 ELDX.


I’ve got some hornady 180’s SST and 168 AMAX coming.
Think I’ll try and sort lower end gns first - jumping in at 200 or 220gn might be deep end holding a rock.
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by TassieTiger » 12 Jul 2019, 8:56 pm

Mark wrote:
TassieTiger wrote:Wouldn’t ballistics be determined by the load rather than the caliber?



All the 300's you've named are the same Caliber ! There ballistics are determined by powder weight.
But when comparing ballistics Of different calibers. Its there charge weight vs there projectile weight efficiency.
I have both the 300wm & 260rem, love them both, enjoy your new toy :thumbsup:


Soz, it’s very easy to confuse me on fridays... when you say the 260 and 300wm have the same ballistics - can you give specific examples? If I shoot 180’s in the 300wm - and 120’s in the 260, I cant use the same hold over points - ? I’m missing something...lol
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by SCJ429 » 12 Jul 2019, 9:07 pm

Mark wrote:
TassieTiger wrote:Wouldn’t ballistics be determined by the load rather than the caliber?



All the 300's you've named are the same Caliber ! There ballistics are determined by powder weight.
But when comparing ballistics Of different calibers. Its there charge weight vs there projectile weight efficiency.
I have both the 300wm & 260rem, love them both, enjoy your new toy :thumbsup:


Are you saying that a 6.5mm 140 grain VLD at 3100 fps has similar ballistics as a 30 cal 200 grain VLD at 2900 fps?

Some cases can provide more speed for the same powder charge, an example is the 300 WSM compared to the 300 RUM. It only gets overtaken by the RUM once it runs out of case capacity. Smaller cases can produce the pressure and therefore the speed because of the smaller chamber volume. It is easy to produce 70% of the RUMs speed but the last but of speed comes at a cost as you are adding a lot of powder but receive a diminishing return.
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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by Mark » 12 Jul 2019, 9:59 pm

The 6.5 140 vld has less drag & less wind drift the the 30 cal over distance. My buddies 300 wm launched a 215 hybrid @ 3080fps
There's a good article on it here ! http://demigodllc.com/articles/the-case ... ngton/?p=2
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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by TassieTiger » 12 Jul 2019, 10:35 pm

That article is a bit old now and many bullets and cases have change the playground...but I get what your trying to say - the article specifies a 190gn at 2900 as a 300wm load vs a certain 260 load...but, as hand loaders go - the variables can now be considerably different. I love the 260 - it’s a great caliber and slippery bullets are a plenty and mine is absolutely dialled at present...
but I cant agree about RE the energy after 1000y - as you’ve said your buddy is getting 3080 FPS from a 215gn projectile..that is going to have a bit more energy than a 260 at 1000 yards - most 260’ projectiles at 140gn are shooting 28-2900 FPS...so BC’s being close to equal - how would the 260 retain enough Velocity to surpass a much bigger bullet?
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by SCJ429 » 12 Jul 2019, 10:43 pm

Mark wrote:The 6.5 140 vld has less drag & less wind drift the the 30 cal over distance. My buddies 300 wm launched a 215 hybrid @ 3080fps
There's a good article on it here ! http://demigodllc.com/articles/the-case ... ngton/?p=2


I am not sure what you are saying, the Berger 6.5mm 140 grain bullet has a BC of .593. The Berger 30 cal 215 grain bullet has a BC of .691 and the 230 grain has a BC of .717. If all bullets were going at the same speed, the bullet with the highest BC would shoot flatter and have less wind drift. The only way for the 6.5 bullet to make up the ground is with more speed. The longer the distance the more speed it requires to keep up.
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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by Mark » 13 Jul 2019, 5:51 am

After reading what i said, im not sure what i was saying either. lol.Tassie the retained energy will always be better in the 300.
The 215 hybrid & 230 vld aren't a fair comparison. hahaha Sorry i wasn't being very clear, Everything your saying is correct.
My claim about the 260 vs 300wm was on general terms, guys shooting the 300wm use a 190gr bullet & the 260 using 130gr
Im no expert on the subject but One thing we can agree on is felt recoil !
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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by SCJ429 » 13 Jul 2019, 8:27 am

You are right about the recoil, it takes a lot of discipline to shoot a big magnum well. But it is great fun if you are up to the challenge. I remember rocking up with a big boomer only to get beaten by a 223, very humbling.
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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by TassieTiger » 16 Jul 2019, 5:16 pm

So, very first shots fired in anger of 300wm...
I wanted to sort my 06 load first - confirm a decision so I only had some Core-Lokt to warm the 300 barrel.

This was first ever 3 shots of 180 Core-Lokt at 105m off a front / rear bag but with an ole bushnell 3x9.
Not too bad if I do say so myself...
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Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by SCJ429 » 16 Jul 2019, 6:06 pm

Excellent result, and you are running it in. How much copper fouling are you getting?
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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by marksman » 16 Jul 2019, 6:54 pm

nice Tassie :drinks: , I'm green with envy, she will be a shooter, and yea any copper?
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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by Stix » 16 Jul 2019, 6:56 pm

Good stuff Tassie... :clap:
The man who knows everything, doesnt really know everything...he's just stopped learning...
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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by TassieTiger » 16 Jul 2019, 10:12 pm

Any copper ? I cleaned the barrel with brass brush, nylon brush, solvent patch, brass brush, cleaner patch, nylon brush, oiled patch, then continued patching out - until patches came out clean.
I’ve literally only shot 4 bullets out of her - so I simply put her away when returned home, should I be checking for copper already?
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by SCJ429 » 17 Jul 2019, 7:51 am

You need to Google Running in a new barrel. You need to baby this barrel until the copper fouling settles down or it will never shoot. All the roughness left from machining is vaporising the jacket and depositing it near the end of your barrel leaving streaks of copper on top of the lands. Get some Boretec Cu+ and start soaking that bore.
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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by TassieTiger » 17 Jul 2019, 8:28 am

SCJ429 wrote:You need to Google Running in a new barrel. You need to baby this barrel until the copper fouling settles down or it will never shoot. All the roughness left from machining is vaporising the jacket and depositing it near the end of your barrel leaving streaks of copper on top of the lands. Get some Boretec Cu+ and start soaking that bore.


So ive started googling and looking at Kreiger run in's etc.
I wasnt aware of this...I should also do the same with my 06 as well then...as that got the basic clean.
Ive go some hoppes no 9 solvent - is that not as abrasive as Boretec ? Is dedicated Bore Solvent somehow different to copper solvent ? The hoppes no 9 is stating the barrel should be coated and then left over night - this worries me leaving a solvent for so long ??
When you say baby the barrel - does this just pertain to cleaning Cu ? Should i theoretically be starting with lead projectiles only - of lighter weight and build up ?
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 17 Jul 2019, 7:18 pm

No that means put some baby oil in it...jk
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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by TassieTiger » 17 Jul 2019, 8:05 pm

I’ve taken over the kitchen and have bipeds, tail packs, gun parts everywhere - notes pointing down hill and soaking...missus is going nuts but I have made promises...25 mins to go lol
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by duncan61 » 17 Jul 2019, 8:11 pm

Sweets 7.62 is copper solvent.Standard solvent will not melt copper.You can only leave Sweets or similar products in for 5 minutes then brush with a nylon brush and patch until all the blue is gone then use normal solvent with a copper brush and patch out then lightly oil till next time.Once you have done this you will only need to do it when accuracy starts to diminish or you feel like it.I have done this to my .222 .243 and 7mm Rem Mag you sort of get a feeling when it is time to decopper the bore again depending on useage .You may find after a super clean with a copper solvent you need to shoot 2 fouling rounds before it groups well again.This is just what I do it seems to work for me
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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by duncan61 » 17 Jul 2019, 8:26 pm

sweets.jpg
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:D :D I purchased a small bottle of Sweets 7.62 in Bunbury in 1990 and still have a near full bottle You clean as per normal then put a few drops on a patch and push it through twice.The second time you will see blue which is the copper starting to melt.You have to use a nylon brush as a copper one will melt.I went to the shed and got mine cos I felt like it.Its still got the destructions on it
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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by SCJ429 » 17 Jul 2019, 9:33 pm

I have not used Hoppes copper solvent for many year but back then it was next to useless. Sweets 7.62 and other ammonia based solvents are OK. The best by far is Boretec.

Clean out the carbon and the look up the muzzle, you can see the copper, patch it, soak it and scrub it until you don't see the copper on the lands and your not getting an blue copper sulphate on your patch. One shot at a time to start with. There is a lot of cleaning involved.

That 30/06 is going to need a lot of soaking to get it clean as a whistle. You will then have to resume the running in process for it as well.
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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by duncan61 » 17 Jul 2019, 9:41 pm

I used boretec polisher when I was full on into F-class
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Re: 300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

Post by marksman » 17 Jul 2019, 9:44 pm

When SCJ429 said to baby the barrel he means dont over heat it or shoot really hot loads in it to start

this is a good read by Gale Mcmillan from Mcmillan stocks/rifles ect
https://www.6mmbr.com/gailmcmbreakin.html

what I believe is that every rifle is different and so is every barrel, treat everyone differently
the problems that I believe cause the fouling is burrs, either on the lands from the barrel being made or from chambering
you need to look down the muzzle and see if there is any copper present after shooting before cleaning

Image

dont just look at the colour of patches
IMHO there is no need to clean if the barrel has no copper
but when copper is present clean the bore till you can shoot quite a few shots without the bore coppering up

I have seen factory barrels take up to 80 shots before they would settle down but also seen more than one tikka be run in after 3-5 shots
tikka barrels are hand lapped but that's not to say a hand lapped barrel wont have burrs,
the polishing from lapping may not get it all out and the burr may be from chambering

there is nothing wrong with leaving your solvent in overnight or even for a couple of days
its not acid just keep brushing and wetting it down every few hours then leave it sit overnight and patch it out in the morning

the way I use solvent is to apply it on a nylon brush and give it a scrub
I use patches to get the crap out :thumbsup:
“If you do not read the newspapers you are uninformed. If you do read the newspapers you are misinformed”. Mark Twain
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