300 Norma, 300 RUM, 300 win, 300 WSM

[SCJ429]

Sorry mate, I forgot you were a bit knocked around. The last thing you need is the shock wave from a booming magnum. Good luck with it.

[TassieTiger]

Some days are diamonds - some days are just s**t.
So mate prompted me today to get out there and have a crack at this howa 300.
I'd loaded up some 180gns earlier in week and hand test chambered - all good.

We packed up the car, drove up to site, set up targets, ranged the distance, wrote down all details, tested everything and then I sighted in the empty rifle.

I then loaded up the first hand load - a long bullet but it did fit in the magazine.
Upon closing the bolt, I thought...hmmm...that was a little tight but it still closed...so I sighted in...but before I pulled trigger - I thought, bugger it - I'll pull that round and load another as a first shot.
Then as I drew back the bolt...I was met with...a farkin empty case and a stream of AR2209 going everywhere...the bullet had jammed in the lands.
and before you ask - no - I did not have a cleaning rod with me...geeeezus this rifle does not want me to shoot the bloody thing.

Got home and just the ever lightest touch with cleaning rod knocked the projectile free...wtf...deep breaths...guess I'm loading a fraction too long.

[Stix]

Ah that sucks mate...

Did you load them to that length on purpose...?...i mean you said you chambered them...

Do you have the gear to, or have you measured the lands...?...and are you measuring the overall length of loaded rounds (to tip of bullet) or to the ogive...?...

[TassieTiger]

Ah that sucks mate...

Did you load them to that length on purpose...?...i mean you said you chambered them...

Do you have the gear to, or have you measured the lands...?...and are you measuring the overall length of loaded rounds (to tip of bullet) or to the ogive...?...

Because I’ve been a bit foggy from concussion - I wanted to keep this lot very simple - as I was initially taught. I loaded long on purpose, test chambered and kept bumping the die 1/4 a turn until the bolt would close without effort - turns out that length was over 5mm longer than Sammi max length - but the rounds did fit in the magazine by 1mm. I’ve since checked a couple other reloads and the light neck tension and rough travel might have moved a couple...as the 300wm cases I’m using is pretty tight.
This round was obviously just touching the lands and the slight twist on retraction pulled the projectile. There was almost no force required to bump it out with a rod and id think it would have fired just fine...live and learn.

Guess I know max length now lol

[Stix]

Ah that sucks mate...

Did you load them to that length on purpose...?...i mean you said you chambered them...

Do you have the gear to, or have you measured the lands...?...and are you measuring the overall length of loaded rounds (to tip of bullet) or to the ogive...?...

Because I’ve been a bit foggy from concussion - I wanted to keep this lot very simple - as I was initially taught. I loaded long on purpose, test chambered and kept bumping the die 1/4 a turn until the bolt would close without effort - turns out that length was over 5mm longer than Sammi max length - but the rounds did fit in the magazine by 1mm. I’ve since checked a couple other reloads and the light neck tension and rough travel might have moved a couple...as the 300wm cases I’m using is pretty tight.
This round was obviously just touching the lands and the slight twist on retraction pulled the projectile. There was almost no force required to bump it out with a rod and id think it would have fired just fine...live and learn.

Guess I know max length now lol

Im not the expert here...but when i load some, especially after finding the right die setting, i test the next 4 or 5 for length, & then still check every 8th or 10th one throughout the rest of the batch just to make sure things arent creeping...

You say that travel might have moved some bullets--do you mean moved them out...?...
Reason i ask is because id imagine any impact a cartridge takes in a case/ammo box would seat bullets deeper in the neck/further away from lands, rather than pull them further out the case, causing them to be longer...

Anyway...ill shut up as im not sure if you're asking/in wonder or just venting & got it all under controll.

Hope it goes well...

[TassieTiger]

No your right stix - some of the ammo was seated in further - apparently from travel, but seeing the difference side by side was really confusing the shed out of me.
It's sorted out now - I was loaded at 89.80mm and sammi was 84.80 - which was a huge difference. A mate showed me that although the 89.90 was fitting in the magazine, it was doing so at a a slight angle - so we have re seated all the bullets at 87.00mm and I'll have another crack in a few days when time allows. At 87.00mm, I'm sitting 0.8mm away from lands, so I'll have a bit to play with once OCW has been found.
Just one of those things...

[SCJ429]

You can shoot them jammed, just don't try and pull a loaded round out of the chamber. Not the best configuration for a hunting round where you may have to unload your rifle.

[SCJ429]

Have you thought of using a slower powder, you may find 200 grain bullets do really well with 2213 Short Cut and 220s seem to like 2217.

[SCJ429]

Sorry, I re read your post and see you are using 180 grain projectiles. Probably find 2209 works as well as 2213 for that weight of pill.

[TassieTiger]

I was going to use the Amax / Zmax 168's as Marksman suggested BUT - my sauer 30/06 groups them beautifully with 58.6gns of ar 2209 confirmed again today, SO I'm going to settle on developing the sierra match king 180's. It appears that Mr Tikka has changed his mind in regards to his go to projectile weight, whilst he was grouping very nicely with some 168's he has now ordered a heap of 155 SST's due to the additional recoil from the 168's fatiguing him. He is getting on a bit and after 30 or so shots off the bench or prone, I can understand it.
But - I didnt realize it but snooping around Mr Tikkas place today whilst he helped me diagnose a couple of things - I found a few hidden...ummm...gold medals...and a few large trophy's and a few Vic title certificates and state rep medals and...off hand shooting A grade, cowboy lever action Vic title first place and all manner of awards for silhouette, etc...Mr Old Tikka apparently has some skills he didn't really inform me about lol.

[SCJ429]

Well if he tries those SST you may be in with a chance. They are the finicky son bitch of a thing to get shooting well. I think the weight is 150 and is probably more suited to a 308, the 300 will have them zooming along. The SMK is a much more forgiving design which you can jam or jump and she will shoot very well.

[Sergeant Hartman]

Mate a couple of things I noticed and wondered so have to ask... but firstly take anything the old tikka mate tells you and wrote it down...old shooters are a treasure trove of information, come old school and maybe not new tech, but gotta get it all before they die off (joking but you get the point I hope)

Back to your ammo, I think your neck tension isn't enough maybe, also I got a bit of bubble wrap but will change it to foam in my ammo cases to stop them getting bashed. As I usually load to the lands.... but only once I had a round break up during extraction and that was cuz I hadn't neck sized it properly.

But more importantly of you are going over the saami specs... place find your lands for each bullet type, just don't adjust your die randomly, funny things happen.

[Member-Deleted]

I might be old fashioned as Ziad made mention of but I load all my ammo to the measure from the bottom of the brass to the ogive which gives me the same distance from the lands every time

[marksman]

this is what I have been thinking while reading this page of posts

Tassie are you measuring from the base to bullet point or ogive
if you are measuring from base to bullet point you will find there is no creep it is that your bullets are not consistent in form
the remedy is to sort your bullets by measuring from the base of the bullet to the ogive and keep them in consistent lots
the whole precision idea is being consistent with your reloads, trying to make the exact thing many times

[SCJ429]

I use a cheap Hornady bullet comparator to measure all my bullets that count. You don't want to put some projectiles with a longer ogive in with your regular ones. You will never win your bet with Mr Tikka that way.

[Sergeant Hartman]

Get the hornady bullet comparator.one more took to buy... who said reloading was to save money

Actually saw a video, I am thinking about primer flash hole debur and primer pocket uniformed... But so many options I am confused on brownells site

[TassieTiger]

Finally - an update for the 300 howa and it was pleasing...
Managed to get 30 mins at private range today - shooting 180gns Sierra hollow points at 105 metres. Was very gusty so may - may not have been a factor. Was shooting off Caldwell sand bags and scope was dialled 26x

Started with 65gns of ar2209 and shot a 5 shot group that measured 1.2 inches which wasn’t too bad.
65.5 gns tightened that even further to 1.0 inches even across 5 shots with two x 2 shots touching at extremities of the inch square grid.
66.0 had me wearing a cheesey arse grin - 5 shots 0.7 of an inch with 3 shots almost in one hole. Very pleased.
66.5 gns had 3 shots close but produced 2 fliers out to 1.2 inches for the group size.
67.0 was max rec gns and I myself know I screwed this group as I pulled trigger as table leg slipped and then a shot went off on an up breath as I tried to creep up on trigger...so might have to retest this charge.
I waited approx 7 mins in between shooting groups and barrel never got warmer than maybe 45 degrees - so not a factor.


Over all - very, very happy and bloody impressed.
I am shooting with a gun bloke muzzle brake on - recoil is akin to my 260 Remington. Very manageable but oh...so fukn loud.

So now will reload some more at 65.8, 66.0 and 66.2 and will also retest 67.0.

Thanks to all whom have offered advice...the challenge is now back on and mr tikka should be worried!!!

[SCJ429]

I went to the range today with a friend who brought his Weatherby MK5 in 300 Win Mag. He is using 220 grain ELDX and was doing some load testing. Despite the wind his best group was 0.287, I was very impressed, he was shooting off a Harris bipod too.

[TassieTiger]

I went to the range today with a friend who brought his Weatherby MK5 in 300 Win Mag. He is using 220 grain ELDX and was doing some load testing. Despite the wind his best group was 0.287, I was very impressed, he was shooting off a Harris bipod too.

That's some big projectiles - and a bloody good grouping size. Ive seen some mark 5's advertised for insane $$ and then others really quite cheap...seems to be quite a spread on the mark 5's...not sure why, I know they are rated as quality firearms....

Ive had this howa 300 now shooting 2 shots touching and then I get all nervous like a school kid and screw the pooch - doesn't help that generally when Ive shot the two, ol Mr Tikka is spotting for me saying - don't screw this one....oooh was that a gust of wind...that's a great potential group...lol. Bastard he is.

[SCJ429]

You are not the only one there, I have managed to stuff up my last shot by getting excited and wishing it in.

This Mark 5 has an aftermarket barrel and is pretty handy at 500. I told him to chamber it in a Weatherby caliber but he wanted the Win Mag. The ELDX seem to work well on game at longer ranges, not seen any failures. He uses Norma brass, RL22 powder and CCI primers.

[marksman]

although I have had good luck with other powders RL22 is the mothers milk for the 300wm IMO

[TassieTiger]

I’ve seen those ELDX “pencil” everything inside 250m - I don’t think they expand unless they it solid...
Buggered if I can regularly get RL22 - we can go months down here waiting for powder..my LGS orders double what he needs now, because his orders are always 50% plus down...

[SCJ429]

I’ve seen those ELDX “pencil” everything inside 250m - I don’t think they expand unless they it solid...
Buggered if I can regularly get RL22 - we can go months down here waiting for powder..my LGS orders double what he needs now, because his orders are always 50% plus down...

That is interesting, I have never seen them pencil through. I have seen the bullet be contained inside a goat at under 200 metres but with massive trauma to the lungs. Even at much longer ranges I have seen the bullet open up to cause massive damage. Are you sure it wasn't the ELDM that pencilled through.

[TassieTiger]

Now you mention it - it may have been the M - I just recall ELD extreme low drag being the projectile of choice for a couple guys I’ll occasionally go out with...