7mm-08 specific question - hunting related

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Re: 7mm-08 specific question - hunting related

Post by SCJ429 » 17 Aug 2019, 10:48 am

flutch wrote:
SCJ429 wrote:You need to read and understand what people write. When they say that a 30 cal has a larger selection of projectiles, they are correct but you take it as there is not a good selection of projectiles for a 270.
.



Not really, people specifically try and assert that there are no decent bullets in .277 they claim its inaccurate and they claim its limited to only low BC bullets, that simply isn't true. Its a reoccurring theme and it isn't rare whatsoever. and eh 30cal might have a lot of projectiles but the actual effectiveness out of a .308 cartridge is exaggerated greatly.


I don't think that many would not acknowledge that the 270 or the 30/06 are very capable, reasonably accurate and a good choice for most deer and pigs. I would not call the 270 a beast of a cartridge lest I be called out on the exaggerations that 308 owners have made to you. The 7mm08 can get within 50 fps of the 270 in most bullet weights. This is where you have to admit that the WSM case provides a real advantage in speed.

For me the 270, 30/06 and 308 are a little common and vanilla. I would prefer a 30BR or a 300 Lapua. But that is me and the majority of shooters buy the 308 and on the whole they come home with some meat for the freezer. My pop only had the choice of a 303 but he shot many things with it. Given the choice I am sure he would have preferred a 308 or a 270.

Good luck with your 270, I am sure you will have and have had a lot of success with it.
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Re: 7mm-08 specific question - hunting related

Post by Bill » 17 Aug 2019, 5:24 pm

Mate the 7-08 can not drive a 150gr bullet at any where near 3000fps and if you have evidence I'd love to see it, sorry but I've gotta call your statement as bollocks.

The 270 can comfortably push a 150gr at 3100fps, get with the program SCJ429
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Re: 7mm-08 specific question - hunting related

Post by Mark » 17 Aug 2019, 8:03 pm

I can't find any data to back up your claim of 3100fps comfortably ?
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Re: 7mm-08 specific question - hunting related

Post by bigrich » 17 Aug 2019, 8:29 pm

duncan61 wrote:Not sure what you guys are shooting at but my man beliki hit a medium size boar on the run with his 308 behind the front leg and it went right through and blew a big hole on the other side and the opposite leg off.It stopped running at that point.Its been a long time since I was in the Army but a Bren gun in 308 can cut trees down and thats with FMJ NATO ammo


A BREN GUN, OF COARSE ! screw all this other stuff i want a bren ! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: 7mm-08 specific question - hunting related

Post by Bill » 18 Aug 2019, 1:10 am

Mark wrote:I can't find any data to back up your claim of 3100fps comfortably ?


It's called reloader 26 Mark and yes it works

Image

Image

:drinks:
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Re: 7mm-08 specific question - hunting related

Post by bigrich » 18 Aug 2019, 8:02 am

i love reloader 22 powder for my 6.5x55 . works with 140's and 120's better than ADI powders in terms of excellent accuracy,good velocity and low preasure. it actually seems to be a common thing with reloader that it keeps preasures lower . i've pushed my 6.5 up real close to 3000fps with 120's before any preasure signs . keep up the good work bill, ya got that 270 workin' :thumbsup:

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Re: 7mm-08 specific question - hunting related

Post by SCJ429 » 18 Aug 2019, 9:39 am

Bill wrote:Mate the 7-08 can not drive a 150gr bullet at any where near 3000fps and if you have evidence I'd love to see it, sorry but I've gotta call your statement as bollocks.

The 270 can comfortably push a 150gr at 3100fps, get with the program SCJ429


I am not sure what you are saying Bill? The 270 Win cannot drive a 150 grain bullet at 3,100 fps either. The ADI data puts it at 2,830. Where did I say that the 7mm08 could?

What program do I need to get with and are you sure you are with it?
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Re: 7mm-08 specific question - hunting related

Post by SCJ429 » 18 Aug 2019, 9:48 am

If you can push the speed a little in your particular 270 do you think you could do something similar to the 7mm? Why don't you moly coat your projectiles to gain even more?
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Re: 7mm-08 specific question - hunting related

Post by Oldbloke » 18 Aug 2019, 11:43 am

Here is an article on bullet testing.

https://www.chuckhawks.com/column74_bullet_testing.htm
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Re: 7mm-08 specific question - hunting related

Post by Bill » 18 Aug 2019, 11:50 am

bigrich wrote:i love reloader 22 powder for my 6.5x55 . works with 140's and 120's better than ADI powders in terms of excellent accuracy,good velocity and low preasure. it actually seems to be a common thing with reloader that it keeps preasures lower . i've pushed my 6.5 up real close to 3000fps with 120's before any preasure signs . keep up the good work bill, ya got that 270 workin' :thumbsup:

:drinks: :drinks: :thumbsup:


Yeah bigrich I took your advice and loaded up some 120gr mono s with RL22 and bang on 3000fps with plenty spare case capacity.

Will hopefully get a chance shortly to do some 130 VLD development, 3000would be nice but I'd be happy with some acuracy over speed
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Re: 7mm-08 specific question - hunting related

Post by Bill » 18 Aug 2019, 7:02 pm

SCJ429 wrote:
Bill wrote:Mate the 7-08 can not drive a 150gr bullet at any where near 3000fps and if you have evidence I'd love to see it, sorry but I've gotta call your statement as bollocks.

The 270 can comfortably push a 150gr at 3100fps, get with the program SCJ429


I am not sure what you are saying Bill? The 270 Win cannot drive a 150 grain bullet at 3,100 fps either. The ADI data puts it at 2,830. Where did I say that the 7mm08 could?

What program do I need to get with and are you sure you are with it?


What progam ?, the 21st century mate :? , I try and use the most modern efficient stable powder available and that is more than likely to be an Alliant powder.

Whats ADI powder got to do with my results when i post my OWN results, not interest in what ADI data told you. This was early stage load development and I had little trouble achieving 3100fps. you stated the 7-08 was within 50fp, anyway carry on :drinks:
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Re: 7mm-08 specific question - hunting related

Post by Bill » 18 Aug 2019, 7:37 pm

SCJ429 wrote:If you can push the speed a little in your particular 270 do you think you could do something similar to the 7mm? Why don't you moly coat your projectiles to gain even more?


nuthing special about my 270win, CRF fairly new barrel, 26inch to get the most out of case capacity. I have no doubt the 280 and 7 rem mag would get a 100fp or so jump with Alliant powders.

a recent article on the stability side of thing.

https://www.rifleshootermag.com/editori ... ity/330773

I think ADI have stood still to be honest other manufacturers now make better powder, availability with Nioa just the only issue
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Re: 7mm-08 specific question - hunting related

Post by bigrich » 18 Aug 2019, 7:48 pm

Bill wrote:
bigrich wrote:i love reloader 22 powder for my 6.5x55 . works with 140's and 120's better than ADI powders in terms of excellent accuracy,good velocity and low preasure. it actually seems to be a common thing with reloader that it keeps preasures lower . i've pushed my 6.5 up real close to 3000fps with 120's before any preasure signs . keep up the good work bill, ya got that 270 workin' :thumbsup:

:drinks: :drinks: :thumbsup:


Yeah bigrich I took your advice and loaded up some 120gr mono s with RL22 and bang on 3000fps with plenty spare case capacity.

Will hopefully get a chance shortly to do some 130 VLD development, 3000would be nice but I'd be happy with some acuracy over speed


i was loading nosler 120 grain BT's in my 6.5 bill . 49 grains in norma brass gave me 2950 fps , and one hole accuracy . max load according to uncle nick's reload book is 50 grains . i went back to 140 sst's as a more general purpose load at 2810 fps with 46.7 grains of RL22 . ADI 2209 never gave as good results as reloader did
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Re: 7mm-08 specific question - hunting related

Post by bigrich » 18 Aug 2019, 8:00 pm

Oldbloke wrote:Here is an article on bullet testing.

https://www.chuckhawks.com/column74_bullet_testing.htm


good ol' chuck hawks. that article does sum things up nicely OB . i myself try to get accuracy over speed , but speed is important with some calibers and bullet combo's for proper bullet expansion . reading nathan fosters writings ,some calibers have a speed thresh hold where energy transfer drops off at particular speeds for some calibers and bullets . they'll still kill, but killing can be delayed a bit . i might be getting too high tech , but it does make for interesting reading. actually , in regards to the original question by the OP , read nathan fosters review on 7-08 :thumbsup:

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Re: 7mm-08 specific question - hunting related

Post by duncan61 » 18 Aug 2019, 8:45 pm

7mm Rem Mag just makes over 3000fps with 150gn pills does a few hundred feet a second matter that much.Most groups are better in the low to middle of their speed range
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Re: 7mm-08 specific question - hunting related

Post by SCJ429 » 18 Aug 2019, 8:59 pm

Bill wrote:
nuthing special about my 270win, CRF fairly new barrel, 26inch to get the most out of case capacity. I have no doubt the 280 and 7 rem mag would get a 100fp or so jump with Alliant powders.

a recent article on the stability side of thing.

https://www.rifleshootermag.com/editori ... ity/330773

I think ADI have stood still to be honest other manufacturers now make better powder, availability with Nioa just the only issue


It is Borfors who make Alliant powders that are playing catch up to ADI. ADI supply huge amounts of powder into the US market and are known for stable powder that is not temperature sensitive. Alliant want to try and capture some of that market share. Did you compare your RL26 with other double based and single based powders? Would Retumbo, 2225, produce pressure issues at the speeds you are chasing?

Can you see that someone reloading for their 7mm08 could achieve similar increases in velocity to what you have done with your 270? They may be able to do this with Alliant powder or another brand. Sometimes you can get better results with double based powder and sometime you don't. Alliant do not have some miracle formulation that gives you an extra 200 fps, it is simplistic to think that they do.
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Re: 7mm-08 specific question - hunting related

Post by Bill » 18 Aug 2019, 9:36 pm

well aware who makes Alliant and your not telling me anything new about ADI, my brother when he was a chemical engineer made powders at Mulwala.

Never reloaded for the 270 before, was happy with factory ammo previously but these days I reload for all my rifles, half with ADI powder half with Alliant.

I found a few references for 7-08 owners getting close to 2900 fps when they used reloader powder. Dont think there is some special formulation just that it hits a sweet spot with bullet weight, case design and capacity for re26. A mate checked all data with quickload.

have you got a link to another powder that may give similar results ? I couldnt find anything but we are always learning :drinks:
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Re: 7mm-08 specific question - hunting related

Post by SCJ429 » 18 Aug 2019, 10:13 pm

If you know this stuff then why say ADI have stood still? They are the market leaders in the biggest market the USA.

You would also know that Bofors do not make RL26, a Swiss company make it.

I would not have thought that such a slow powder like 26 was ideal for the 270 but you are getting good results with it. I assume you could get similar results from powders made by ADI or VV or a number of others. I have used RL22 in a 300 Win Mag but got better SD and ES from 2217 at the same speed. Even Alliant admits that their powders are not as temperature stable as" an Australian manufacturer"

I love some of VV powders but supply is difficult and with a bit of experimenting I have found an ADI powder to give me the same result. What does your brother recommend?
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Re: 7mm-08 specific question - hunting related

Post by SCJ429 » 18 Aug 2019, 10:22 pm

I note that your ES is 28 and SD is 19.9, is this the result you were looking for? Have you been able to improve these numbers? What are your groups like?
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Re: 7mm-08 specific question - hunting related

Post by Bill » 18 Aug 2019, 10:33 pm

I found a nice load just beneath that load, 3 shots went MOA, speed was 3060fps. I only bought the rifle as it was a Husky 1640 that had been rebarreled. I didnt expect to get the speed I got to be honest, but plenty of other were getting good results and I found a few bottles of 26. I already had a few old boxes of 150gr Partitions hence my curiosity with 150s and RE26. I now have a new appreciation of the 270. Maybe saying ADI stood still was bit over the top as they do make some fine products. RE26 is very stable if you had read the link I posted. I was hoping to take this gun to the top end this year but most likely it will be next year because of work commitments

my brother recommends being very careful with powder lol, he is now a surgeon.
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Re: 7mm-08 specific question - hunting related

Post by SCJ429 » 19 Aug 2019, 9:11 pm

What did you get your SD down to with that load?

I did read your link but was careful not to get carried away with marketing hype. While people using Allient powders are getting beaten by Hodgdon you have to be a little sceptical about claims made by a manufacture.
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Re: 7mm-08 specific question - hunting related

Post by bigrich » 19 Aug 2019, 9:48 pm

SCJ429 wrote:What did you get your SD down to with that load?

I did read your link but was careful not to get carried away with marketing hype. While people using Allient powders are getting beaten by Hodgdon you have to be a little sceptical about claims made by a manufacture.


myself, i'll buy and try a powder , if it works , it works . reloader in my 6.5x55 works better than ADI. i've loaded 2209 and 2208 every which way and rl22 just works better in my rifle .from my experience i wouldn't hesitate to try reloader powder with other calibers . ATM ADI 2208 works great in 243 , and BM2 gives great results in my 222 also . if i get bored or down on powder i might try some reloader in these also . nothing ventured , nothing gained :thumbsup:
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Re: 7mm-08 specific question - hunting related

Post by Bill » 19 Aug 2019, 10:13 pm

Im the same bigrich, cant complain about the accuracy with ADI stuff but if someone makes stuff and it makes s**t go faster, hit harder and accuracy is till there....well that sounds like a free lunch to me :thumbsup:
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Re: 7mm-08 specific question - hunting related

Post by SCJ429 » 19 Aug 2019, 10:19 pm

I agree Rich, you have to try stuff. The 6.5x55 is a tricky one because the load data is so conservative because of the old actions chambered in this caliber. We were using a 143 grain ELDX with 47.8 grains of 2209 for a speed of 2984 fps to get it to shoot. SD was 5 and it will shoot 1/4 inch. I had tried some VV powder before this but ran out of room in the case.

I am no expert with the Swede but the problems you had with 2209 may have been because the bullet wasn't going fast enough. I had to stick 47.9 grains of it behind a 130 grain SGK going 3035 fps before it came good.
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Re: 7mm-08 specific question - hunting related

Post by bigrich » 20 Aug 2019, 4:56 am

SCJ429 wrote:I agree Rich, you have to try stuff. The 6.5x55 is a tricky one because the load data is so conservative because of the old actions chambered in this caliber. We were using a 143 grain ELDX with 47.8 grains of 2209 for a speed of 2984 fps to get it to shoot. SD was 5 and it will shoot 1/4 inch. I had tried some VV powder before this but ran out of room in the case.

I am no expert with the Swede but the problems you had with 2209 may have been because the bullet wasn't going fast enough. I had to stick 47.9 grains of it behind a 130 grain SGK going 3035 fps before it came good.


I went as high as 47 gn of 2209 in my 6.5 and all different manner of COL , and it just didn’t perform as well as reloader for me. 47 gn is 3 gn over max , and did show pressure signs. What was interesting is my rifle with reloader 22 gets outstanding accuracy out of 120 Nosler BT’s when supposedly the faster 2208 or RL19 is the powder to use. There’s no absolutes in this game. After having my 222 rebarreled with a 1-12 twist BM2 has the edge in accuracy over other powders , which according to lots of people is too slow. I develop loads cautiously for my rifles, and treat each as a individual. Most load data is conservative, I consider uncle Nick’s load book to be the most honest data I’ve come across and he’s tested a wide range of powders for different rifles, some of which wouldn’t be a first choice but do work supprisingly well . If reloading was very easy it wouldn’t be fun I guess :thumbsup:
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Re: 7mm-08 specific question - hunting related

Post by SCJ429 » 20 Aug 2019, 8:11 am

I am cautious too and was creeping up by 0.2 of a grain to find the cases potential was frustrating. When you are five grains over and not a single pressure sign I have to wonder why they don't publish two lots of data, one for older actions and one for modern actions like they do for the 45/70.

We are very lucky to have one of the best powder makers here in Australia. If I lived in Europe I would use more local VV and Alliant powder but would have to get some Varget (2208).
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