For those who think heavier projectiles buck the wind

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For those who think heavier projectiles buck the wind

Post by Harrynsw » 25 Oct 2019, 9:07 pm

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Re: For those who think heavier projectiles buck the wind

Post by Bill » 25 Oct 2019, 9:23 pm

or go to a 17 wsm and more than halve the drift
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Re: For those who think heavier projectiles buck the wind

Post by SCJ429 » 25 Oct 2019, 9:38 pm

Comes down to BC and speed wouldn't you think?
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Re: For those who think heavier projectiles buck the wind

Post by flutch » 25 Oct 2019, 10:14 pm

speed is a huge factor a projectile of a specific weight will have differing amounts of windage to deal with at different velocities. stands to reason the less time a bullet spends getting to the target the less drift it will incur from the wind.
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Re: For those who think heavier projectiles buck the wind

Post by SCJ429 » 25 Oct 2019, 10:36 pm

As a bullet slows down the BC decreases. If you have more BC you can keep your speed longer.
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Re: For those who think heavier projectiles buck the wind

Post by Faedy » 25 Oct 2019, 11:53 pm

I love my 17hmr for specific jobs. It certainly has its limitations, but it also has some arse kicking advantages for some jobs. I buy ammo in bulk when on special and it works out to be a cheap rig to run
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Re: For those who think heavier projectiles buck the wind

Post by in2anity » 26 Oct 2019, 5:52 am

I have a 300blk that groups 125gr projectiles into 1" at 100m. The BC for these is approximately 0.29.

I also have a 223 that groups 55gr projectiles into 1" at 100m. The BC for these is around 0.26.

The 300blk spits them at 2100fps, the 223 spits them at 3000fps.

The 223 groups tighter than the 300blk under fluctuating wind conditions.
Last edited by in2anity on 26 Oct 2019, 6:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: For those who think heavier projectiles buck the wind

Post by Noisydad » 26 Oct 2019, 5:59 am

Kind of seems odd and makes me wonder how a piddling little 40 gn bullet can go anywhere, do anything or withstand any wind once you get used to sending bullets upwards of 400 grains on their way. Perspective is a strange thing.
There's still a few of Wile. E Coyote's ideas that I haven't tried yet.
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Re: For those who think heavier projectiles buck the wind

Post by straightshooter » 26 Oct 2019, 7:07 am

The evaluation of wind drift is far more complex than simply picking one attribute and deciding that it will be the principal determinant of the degree of drift.
Many variables such as wind vector, gyroscopic stability, time of flight play a significant role as distinct from the popularly considered BC, projectile weight and muzzle velocity.
In my opinion it is far simpler to keep your shots within a distance where wind won't be liable to be a significant determinant of accuracy.
That is not to say that there aren't shooters who are skilled at guesstimating wind drift.
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Re: For those who think heavier projectiles buck the wind

Post by SCJ429 » 26 Oct 2019, 8:23 am

straightshooter wrote:The evaluation of wind drift is far more complex than simply picking one attribute and deciding that it will be the principal determinant of the degree of drift.
Many variables such as wind vector, gyroscopic stability, time of flight play a significant role as distinct from the popularly considered BC, projectile weight and muzzle velocity.
In my opinion it is far simpler to keep your shots within a distance where wind won't be liable to be a significant determinant of accuracy.
That is not to say that there aren't shooters who are skilled at guesstimating wind drift.


Even the most argumentative would have to concede that the major factors are BC and speed.

Wind vector, if the wind value is the same for two bullets the one with the best combination of BC and speed will be least effected by the wind.

Time of flight, is determined by the speed of the bullet over the distance. If the distance is the same for both bullets then the only factor is the speed.

Gyroscopic stability, if the rpm of the bullet is within the design limitations for that bullet then this would only be a small factor while the bullet is supersonic.
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Re: For those who think heavier projectiles buck the wind

Post by Stix » 26 Oct 2019, 9:36 am

SCJ429 wrote:
straightshooter wrote:The evaluation of wind drift is far more complex than simply picking one attribute and deciding that it will be the principal determinant of the degree of drift.
Many variables such as wind vector, gyroscopic stability, time of flight play a significant role as distinct from the popularly considered BC, projectile weight and muzzle velocity.
In my opinion it is far simpler to keep your shots within a distance where wind won't be liable to be a significant determinant of accuracy.
That is not to say that there aren't shooters who are skilled at guesstimating wind drift.


Even the most argumentative would have to concede that the major factors are BC and speed.

Wind vector, if the wind value is the same for two bullets the one with the best combination of BC and speed will be least effected by the wind.

Time of flight, is determined by the speed of the bullet over the distance. If the distance is the same for both bullets then the only factor is the speed.

Gyroscopic stability, if the rpm of the bullet is within the design limitations for that bullet then this would only be a small factor while the bullet is supersonic.


Well the wsy i see it, is the chosen bullet, its BC & velocity are the primary & most important factors in regard to accuracy...
No the only factors, but the most important.

Quite simply because in any given rifle/hardware set-up,, the BC & velocity are the only factors we can vary/have controll over...

Once that primer ignites, everything else is a random constant...
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Re: For those who think heavier projectiles buck the wind

Post by SCJ429 » 26 Oct 2019, 1:05 pm

If you are shooting short range benchrest then you would use lower BC flat based bullets. At longer ranges VLD bullets and higher speeds will help you reduce your windage.

I am often suprised by 30 cal shooters telling me how much I am going to struggle in the wind with a 204. They mistakenly believe that their big 150 grain bullets are going to shoot inside my little 40 grain ones at ranges less than 500.
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Re: For those who think heavier projectiles buck the wind

Post by in2anity » 26 Oct 2019, 2:29 pm

SCJ429 wrote:If you are shooting short range benchrest then you would use lower BC flat based bullets. At longer ranges VLD bullets and higher speeds will help you reduce your windage.

Too true - I've seen better accuracy out of a fb bullet at close/medium ranges. That and you can fit more powder in. I do like my fb bullets :D
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Re: For those who think heavier projectiles buck the wind

Post by marksman » 26 Oct 2019, 2:35 pm

distance has a bit to do with it as well, but not a bad test IMO

but l am a big fan of long skinny bullets that is like shooting needles eg...80gr bergers for 22cal and 105gr bergers for 6mm, 140gr bergers 6.5mm

the shorter fatter ones are fine for plugging varmints around up to 300 :drinks:
and if l can l will use flat based shorter fat ones :thumbsup:
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Re: For those who think heavier projectiles buck the wind

Post by in2anity » 26 Oct 2019, 5:09 pm

marksman wrote:distance has a bit to do with it as well, but not a bad test IMO

but l am a big fan of long skinny bullets that is like shooting needles eg...80gr bergers for 22cal and 105gr bergers for 6mm, 140gr bergers 6.5mm

the shorter fatter ones are fine for plugging varmints around up to 300 :drinks:
and if l can l will use flat based shorter fat ones :thumbsup:


Berger! You must have deep pockets mate! ;) Jokes; indeed they are an amazing bullet. You just need to weigh and measure them to see where your money is going...
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Re: For those who think heavier projectiles buck the wind

Post by marksman » 26 Oct 2019, 9:07 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol: yea your right but they are cheaper than some l use eg... sierra 6.5 142gr match kings
l dont see bergers that bad to buy for hunting because it might only be 1-2 boxes a year but you have to buy in bulk when you can :thumbsup:
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Re: For those who think heavier projectiles buck the wind

Post by bigrich » 27 Oct 2019, 6:15 am

Stix wrote:
SCJ429 wrote:
straightshooter wrote:The evaluation of wind drift is far more complex than simply picking one attribute and deciding that it will be the principal determinant of the degree of drift.
Many variables such as wind vector, gyroscopic stability, time of flight play a significant role as distinct from the popularly considered BC, projectile weight and muzzle velocity.
In my opinion it is far simpler to keep your shots within a distance where wind won't be liable to be a significant determinant of accuracy.
That is not to say that there aren't shooters who are skilled at guesstimating wind drift.


Even the most argumentative would have to concede that the major factors are BC and speed.

Wind vector, if the wind value is the same for two bullets the one with the best combination of BC and speed will be least effected by the wind.

Time of flight, is determined by the speed of the bullet over the distance. If the distance is the same for both bullets then the only factor is the speed.

Gyroscopic stability, if the rpm of the bullet is within the design limitations for that bullet then this would only be a small factor while the bullet is supersonic.


Well the wsy i see it, is the chosen bullet, its BC & velocity are the primary & most important factors in regard to accuracy...
No the only factors, but the most important.

Quite simply because in any given rifle/hardware set-up,, the BC & velocity are the only factors we can vary/have controll over...

Once that primer ignites, everything else is a random constant...
:drinks:

that sums up my views stix . some combinations of variables come together to make some calibers better in certain circumstances than others i beleive. the easiest to load for consistant accuracy caliber i've played with is 222 . i've made one whole groups at 100 very easily with a rediculous minimum amount of load developement . anyway, back to the bullet drift topic , a lot of old school 45-70 distance shooters can acheive some amazing long distance shots with open sights . heavy bullet not moving fast :unknown: do a google on the record of charles w hinman and "45-70 at two miles , sandy hook tests of 1879" it makes for interesting reading :thumbsup:
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Re: For those who think heavier projectiles buck the wind

Post by bigpete » 27 Oct 2019, 6:29 am

Tested this for myself the other day. Yeah,the 17hmr doesn't drift bugger all as far as I'm concerned
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Re: For those who think heavier projectiles buck the wind

Post by bigrich » 27 Oct 2019, 9:42 am

bigpete wrote:Tested this for myself the other day. Yeah,the 17hmr doesn't drift bugger all as far as I'm concerned


Regardless of lack of drift, I’m still not a fan of 17hmr, split cases are common and I’ve seen people believe the hype about them and try to do things with a 20 gn projectile that ya probably shouldn’t. I suppose if ya got lots of bunnies and ya not after the meat, or theirs foxes and cats a plenty it makes sense. For pin point accuracy at reasonable distance I’m quite happy with my 222. :thumbsup:
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Re: For those who think heavier projectiles buck the wind

Post by bigpete » 27 Oct 2019, 9:53 am

They do sweet f all damage to the meat lol.
I'm using mine virtually all the time now to shoot for cash. And the tiny pill is reasonably safe to use around the vineyards. But yes,anything bigger than a fox is really a no go.
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Re: For those who think heavier projectiles buck the wind

Post by bigrich » 27 Oct 2019, 11:32 am

bigpete wrote:They do sweet f all damage to the meat lol.
I'm using mine virtually all the time now to shoot for cash. And the tiny pill is reasonably safe to use around the vineyards. But yes,anything bigger than a fox is really a no go.


yeah well, if ya shooting for cash it makes perfect sense . not a lot of bunnies around where i live ,so not much use for 22lr , 17hmr or other light calibers . foxes are getting a lot more common in the south east corner of QLD but ,not uncommon to see them around outer suburbs of brisbane, logan and ipswich now . my 222 suits the occasional roo culling i've done , with the reach and power for any fox/cat i come across :thumbsup:
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Re: For those who think heavier projectiles buck the wind

Post by marksman » 27 Oct 2019, 3:09 pm

bigrich wrote:
bigpete wrote:They do sweet f all damage to the meat lol.
I'm using mine virtually all the time now to shoot for cash. And the tiny pill is reasonably safe to use around the vineyards. But yes,anything bigger than a fox is really a no go.


yeah well, if ya shooting for cash it makes perfect sense . not a lot of bunnies around where i live ,so not much use for 22lr , 17hmr or other light calibers . foxes are getting a lot more common in the south east corner of QLD but ,not uncommon to see them around outer suburbs of brisbane, logan and ipswich now . my 222 suits the occasional roo culling i've done , with the reach and power for any fox/cat i come across :thumbsup:


its more about the type of projectile l have found eg... 17 cal v/z-max projectiles are not as good as the old 25gr hornady hollow points for head shooting
l agree that the v/z-max projectiles are only good for up to fox size critters :drinks:
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Re: For those who think heavier projectiles buck the wind

Post by bigpete » 27 Oct 2019, 7:03 pm

Where are you getting 25gn 17hmr ammo from ?
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Re: For those who think heavier projectiles buck the wind

Post by marksman » 27 Oct 2019, 7:34 pm

bigpete wrote:Where are you getting 25gn 17hmr ammo from ?


l new someone would pick me up on that pete
no its not a 17hmr l am shooting its a 17 ackley hornet :drinks:
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Re: For those who think heavier projectiles buck the wind

Post by bigpete » 27 Oct 2019, 7:59 pm

That does intrigue me a little. Bit fiddly to reload for fingers used to 35 cal pills lol
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Re: For those who think heavier projectiles buck the wind

Post by bigrich » 27 Oct 2019, 9:32 pm

marksman wrote:
bigpete wrote:Where are you getting 25gn 17hmr ammo from ?


l new someone would pick me up on that pete
no its not a 17hmr l am shooting its a 17 ackley hornet :drinks:


17 hornet seemed like a awesome bit of gear, but the ackley version must be fantastic . i've been over the ballistics of the 17 hornet, and i'm supprised i don't hear more of them as they are a real flat shooter with great accuracy at distance . i don't have a real use for the caliber, but it's ballistics are impressive :thumbsup:
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