6.5 Creedmoor definetely better than .308?

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

Hey guys,

So I've been doing quite a bit of research
I've listened to a lot of shooters debating what's better between the 6.5 creedmoor and the .308

And the 6.5 creedmoor seems to be better than the .308 on every account
(when it comes to long distance target shooting)

The 6.5 Creedmoor has less drop than the .308
The 6.5 Creedmoor shoots straighter than the .308
The 6.5 Creedmoor is less affected by wind than the .308
The 6.5 Creedmoor has less recoil than the .308

So
In every sense of the way, on every account, the 6.5 creedmoor does seem to be better than the .308

Is there anybody here who would argue that the .308 is better than the 6.5 creedmoor?

(Please note; I am aware that the disadvantage of the 6.5 creedmoor is that ammo for it is more expensive and less available than the .308)

[in2anity]

308 brass is common, and therefore can be cheap. 308 projectilces are common, and therefore can be cheap. 30 cal projectile selection is currently much wider than 6.5cm. Light 30 cal pills can be cheaper than 6.5cm projectiles. Throat erosion occurs faster with the 6.5 Creedmoor because it uses a smaller diameter barrel. 308 has has about 36% more frontal surface area than the 6.5cm; all other things being equal, a bigger bullet will make a bigger hole, cause more tissue damage, and result in more blood loss.

Does this mean I think the 308 is "better"; absolutely not. 6.5cm has a lot of advantages over the 308w, pimarily in the form of reduced recoil, flatter trajectories, better wind bucking abilites, making it inherently easier to use.

Can the 308 still group into tiny clusters at long ranges (with the right gun in the right hands)? A RESOUINDING YES.

[in2anity]

TheFirearmEnthusiast in my humble opinion, instead of focusing on the intricacies of these two calibers, I feel you should be pouring your focus on rifle selection instead of caliber. The realisation of accuracy overwhelmingly comes from the gun and shooter (before the calibre). If you get a heavy barrel on a quality action and bed, there are lots of different calibers that will get you out to 1000m with ease. Everybody gets so hung up on the "trendy" calibre when they should really be searching out the exact rifle for their needs. Better to do one thing well than multiple things adequetly...

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

In2anity
Regarding your comment regarding catridge;
Thank you for your feedback
I agree with what you said
Makes sense 100%


Regarding your comment regarding the rifle selection;
You're right
Well in terms of rifle selection I'm 90% sure I'll go with the Tikka T3X lite
I'm more or less pretty much set on that


Unless if something else amazing jumps out at me for a similar price range
I love what I've heard about the Tikka's so far
Howa would probably be my 2nd choice right now
Howa or Lithgow
But tikka 1st for now
And howa 2nd for now

[in2anity]

Regarding your comment regarding the rifle selection;
You're right
Well in terms of rifle selection I'm 90% sure I'll go with the Tikka T3X lite
I'm more or less pretty much set on that

)

But the "lite" part of that tikka implies that it's a carry-gun. i.e. light, whippy barrel, meant for close-range shots on foot, generally only shooting 1 or 2, at most 3 shots at a time. If you are expecting to be smacking targets way out there (as the 6.5cm is really tuned for), surely a heavier contour barrel would be more appropriate?

If you anticipate mostly target shooting, I would stay away from a light sporter. Like I said, better to do one thing well than many things average....

If I were you (and presuming you'll mostly be target shooting from static positions), start with a quality, heavy target rifle, and then get yourself a cheap, light bush-whacker, like the Ruger American Ranch for hunting. You can get them for well under $1000 new, even cheaper second hand....

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

Mm
I guess that is a good point in2anity

I thought of getting the Tikka T3X lite in 6.5 Creedmore in the sense that I was under the impression that I could use it for both hunting and target shooting
(But mainly for Target shooting at long distance)

Since its light
I thought: "ah perfect for hunting"
Since its 6.5 creedmoor
I thought: "ah perfect for long distance target shooting"

But you wouldn't recommend the "lite" version for Target Shooting yeah?
Is that because it's not built to be as strong as the normal models?
And since I would use it for plinking a bit, that's not recommended or?

[in2anity]

But you wouldn't recommend the "lite" version for Target Shooting yeah?
Is that because it's not built to be as strong as the normal models?
And since I would use it for plinking a bit, that's not recommended or?

Not really mate - the light barrel will turn into a soldering iron in a hurry once you really start sending em. If you want to marvel at your ability to consistently ring steel at long distances, or admire your tiny clusters of holes once you get home, do yourself a favour and get a varmint contour barrel. That and a nice trigger. Just DO NOT expect to carry it around out bush; get that idea out of your head now. You'll have to get a second gun for that... but it certainly wouldn't have to be a 6.5cm. Better to go bigger cal for more thump.

Those Tikkas really are suberb guns so I think you're on the money there. And a heavy barrel tikka will really squeeze the most out of the 6.5cm cartridge. And remember inside 500m there really are lots of calibers that will perform very well (provided the gun is up to it), and the advatnage of ultra high BC bullets is really lost...

[SCJ429]

The 308 has some advantages, for hunting it is legal for some species that the 6.5 is not. It can shoot heavier bullets.

For score target shooting, it punches a bigger hole in the target increasing your chances of catching the line of the ring above.

Neither rifle is able to shoot straighter it is up to the bullet your are using. If you mean that it is les effected by the wind then yes the 6.5 projectiles generally have an advantage.

Unless you are petit, I would recommend the Varmint.

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

Mm
Thank you for the feedback in2anity
I'll probably do that
I'll probably just buy 1x rifle specifically for long distance target shooting
And I'll buy another 1x rifle specifically for hunting
In that case;
The Rifle that I'll buy specifically for long distance target shooting
I'll definetely make sure it's appropriate for that
For plinking
Thank you for the feedback
I'll definetely take that into consideration
I wanna do everything right, you know?
I like a job well done


SCJ429:
Thank you for the feedback
I didn't know that the 6.5 creedmoor wasn't allowed on certain animals
That's good to know

Would you know if the 6.5 creedmoor is generally allowed on most pests?

[SCJ429]

I am not sure if deer, donkeys and camels are classified as pests, you will have to check your legislation. For most pest species the 6.5 is legal.

For competition work the 6.5 has an advantage but if I was starting out and wanted to shoot 600 metres or even a little further a 1:8 twist 223 with a heavy barrel would fit the bill. Learn to reload and get some 80 Berger projectiles.

[Ferrisweil]

If you want more advice on here mate, perhaps you need to advise exactly what your intentions are. Maybe answer some of these questions.

1) how much hunting/target shooting will you do? Which one is most likely to happen the most?

2) If you do go hunting, what are you targeting and do you have somewhere to hunt with known species or is there just a “wish” list at this stage?

3) if you go hunting, do you walk far and stalk or is it off a ute?

4) if you’re intending on going to the range, are you REALLY going to be shooting 500-1000 or you just generally wanna plink away?

Answer these questions and you’ll very easily narrow it down to what suits you.
You’re questions are valid but wanting a rifle that shoots 1k and you carry around on a hunt is something you’d maybe setup as a custom job years down the track.
K.I.S.S. Is a good acronym and for someone starting out (making an assumption here) maybe you need something like a Tikka (since you’ve made your mind up there - good choice) in a sporter barrel with something like a 2-12x50 scope on it...Calibre wise.... 243, 6.5, 308.... They’ll all do a great job and will be a lovely first rifle.

[sungazer]

The 6.5 would be best for you. The slightly less recoil and if you do load your own don't go for the heaviest bullets like most people do. They are not necessarily the best bullet choice for the cartridge and you may get better performance from a slightly lighter bullet.

[Sergeant Hartman]

Ok I will ask a different question...i think the answers were given somewhere but I forgot

How old are you?
Do you already have your license? What are the conditions on it, is it target and hunting orsomething else?
Where are you shooting, have you got a farm or range sorted, no point in getting a gun that can shoot a mile when you only have access to a range of 100m.
Are you reloading or buying factory ammo? Ie can you afford to shoot match grade factory ammo

[flashman]

Hi Mate I agree with in2anity ,308 cheap brass , projectiles ,a all round cal , from popping rabbits to ............................sambar
, 6.5 is a specialised what do wont to do ..........

[Raband]

How about instead of making a new topic everytime you get a new idea you work out what you really want?

From your 1st post a few weeks ago you've really peppered the forum without any real direction as to what you're likely to be doing.

We're still not really any closer than your 1st post where the criteria was:

What I want in a gun is;
- I want it to look cool
(As it's important to be satisfied with the look of your gun)
- I want it to have as much power as possible
(As it's nice to feel the power)
- I want it to be accurate as possible
(As I LOVE long distance target shooting)
- Preferably I'd want it to be $1000 max
(As I'm on a bit of a budget)

where you were going to grab the 22LR and learn the basics.

That'd still be my recommendation - it'll teach you the fundamentals and let you go after the small pests etc in the beginning.

After firing that for a while you'll start to get a better idea of what you want to look for in your next firearm

[Ferrisweil]

[quote="Raband"]How about instead of making a new topic everytime you get a new idea you work out what you really want?

From your 1st post a few weeks ago you've really peppered the forum without any real direction as to what you're likely to be.


GOLD! ......

[bladeracer]

How about instead of making a new topic everytime you get a new idea you work out what you really want?

From your 1st post a few weeks ago you've really peppered the forum without any real direction as to what you're likely to be doing.

We're still not really any closer than your 1st post where the criteria was:

What I want in a gun is;
- I want it to look cool
(As it's important to be satisfied with the look of your gun)
- I want it to have as much power as possible
(As it's nice to feel the power)
- I want it to be accurate as possible
(As I LOVE long distance target shooting)
- Preferably I'd want it to be $1000 max
(As I'm on a bit of a budget)

where you were going to grab the 22LR and learn the basics.

That'd still be my recommendation - it'll teach you the fundamentals and let you go after the small pests etc in the beginning.

After firing that for a while you'll start to get a better idea of what you want to look for in your next firearm

I think his threads have been useful, to himself and for general discussion. For new shooters it can be a daunting prospect trying to determine what you want before you've fully grasped what the sport can offer you. The extensive bouncing of half-formed ideas off people that are already into shooting is helping him make his decisions with a lot more real-world information than he started with. In the old days if you thought you had some interest in shooting you just went and tried it with somebody you trusted, without having to be licenced first or go to a range. Nowadays the authorities have made it a major undertaking for people wanting to dip a toe in, without breaking a host of punitive laws.

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

Ferrisweil:
I'm sorry but I thought I made myself perfectly clear in this thread?
My question essentially was: "Is the 6.5 Creedmoor better than the .308 over long distance?"
Some shooters agree, some shooters disagree
Personally, I think that the answer is yes, since it has less drop, since its less affected by the wind, since it has less recoil than the .308
I guess I was just looking to see if anyone preferred the .308 over the 6.5 and why?
It was a small request/small question?

Ziad:
Most of the answers were given out in other threads
but again
I only had 1x small question and that's it "does the 6.5 Creedmoor perform better over long distances compared to the .308?"
Again, I just had 1x small question? And that was my question essentially lol.....
(And I explained further down that it was mainly gonna be for target shooting)

Raband:
Well I have purchased my .22LR already, so thats great
Everyone gave me good advice about starting out with the .22LR and I'm very very grateful for that
The thing is;
My safe can hold approximately 7x to 8x firearms
So I guess im just doing my research right now
My long term goal is this;
In my safe, I wanna have:
1x .22LR (for short distance target shooting, which we worked out in the other thread)
1x .308 or 6.5 Creedmoor for long distance shooting (hence this thread right here)
1x .243 for "all rounder hunting" (which we already worked out in the other thread)
1x .22LR Henry Lever Action Youth (coz that lever action is just so much fun to use lol)
1x shotgun or 2x (for clay target shooting, which ill sort that out later, once I get all my other rifles 1st)
So I'm just collecting all the information right now about everything I guess
Knowledge is power, wouldn't you agree?

Bladeracer:
I agree with you
I think there's nothing wrong with me starting all these threads
I think its a good thing that I'm starting all these threads
I'm legitimately genuinely seeking information/knowledge
I'm thirsty for knowledge
When I start all these threads
When everyone comments on them
So much information is being gathered and put on display
I'm 100% sure it will help future new shooters
As I'm sure the future new shooters will have the same questions as me when they start out
I'm sure that all this information being put on display here will also help existing shooters who might not know a thing or two

I personally dont find anything wrong with gathering knowledge

If you love firearms, surely you'll love knowledge about them, and discussions being had about them

No need to get angry people!

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

Oh an by the way
Please dont think that you guys have not helped me
You guys have helped me heaps...

Thanks to you guys, I gotta .22LR as my 1st rifle
Thanks to you guys, I've worked out that the .243 is (more or less) the best all rounder hunting caliber
Thank to you guys, I see the differences between the 6.5 Creedmoor and the .308 right now which I didn't really see before
(Which from what I can tell it's not too much for what I wanna do I guess)

You guys have helped me heaps, and I thank you for it!

[poid]

I've just been through this thought process myself. For hunting, I've bought a T3X lite in .270 as I'm mainly after goats, deer and pigs. Already have other rifles for bunnies/foxes.

For longer distance shooting, when I get to that point, it'll probably be an LA105 (like to support local business when i can). They come in 6.5CM and 308, would prefer it in 6.5CM but if only 308 is available at the time I'll get that as either calibre is good.

[in2anity]

TheFirearmEnthusiast i'm with yu with respect to this being a valid thread. People seem to think that this is some kind of paid service, or that there is perhaps only a limited number of threads to go around - IT'S A FREE PUBLIC FORUM PEOPLE. Nobody owes anyone nothin. If you don't agree with the direction of a thread, or the thread itself, its simple, p!ss off some place else. Go read news.com.au

Let the lad ask his questions - it's not costing anyone anything.

[in2anity]

For longer distance shooting, when I get to that point, it'll probably be an LA105 (like to support local business when i can). They come in 6.5CM and 308, would prefer it in 6.5CM but if only 308 is available at the time I'll get that as either calibre is good.

Now there's a gun that'll go the distance. That's the sort of thing you should be looking at for target work TheFirearmEnthusiast. Not cheap, but you get what you pay for.

[Sergeant Hartman]

Well you still haven't replied to my questions.

But to answer your question, I have both calibers bought only a few months apart, i don't hunt (but even if I was, it would either be a 223 or a 308) and looking at my records the 308 has more than double the rounds through it. Not that I need to look I find my hand picks up the 308 over 6.5 nearly always.

On any day I can shoot more rounds through it in the 20min sessions at little river as the creedmore barrel gets hot lot quicker than the 308.

And lastly, the 30cal bullet makes a noise that you can actually hear when it hits the gongs at little river.

[in2anity]

Well you still haven't replied to my questions.

But to answer your question, I have both calibers bought only a few months apart, i don't hunt (but even if I was, it would either be a 223 or a 308) and looking at my records the 308 has more than double the rounds through it. Not that I need to look I find my hand picks up the 308 over 6.5 nearly always.

On any day I can shoot more rounds through it in the 20min sessions at little river as the creedmore barrel gets hot lot quicker than the 308.

And lastly, the 30cal bullet makes a noise that you can actually hear when it hits the gongs at little river.

Yeah it's the little things that make a gun/caliber desirable - things you can't easily think of or perhaps put into words. I appreciate this.

[sungazer]

Arguments over the 6.5 and 308 are a bit silly. There are some valid reasons to chose one over the other but the ballistics of the cartridge is not one of them. Even when you want to take up competitive target shooting there will be other questions and decisions that will lead you to different paths without ever having to consider ballistics.

The difference in ballistics between them is good for the journos who write reviews and keyboard warriors that want to debate over ant farts.

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

Thanks for your feedback poid
How are you finding your Tikka T3X lite?

And you're right
Both calibers are appealing
That's why I guess it's a bit hard to choose between the Creedmoor 6.5 and the .308


Thanks In5anity
I'll look into the LA105 as soon as I can!


Ziad:
In terms of the barrel of the 6.5 creedmoor getting hot quickly
Do you reckon thats a typical trait of the 6.5 creedmoors or?
Mm you may have swayed me a little bit towards the .308 actually
Being able to hear the sound of the bullets when they hit the metallic gongs, that is a pretty awesome feeling
Mm
I may be tempted more towards the .308 actually now..

I agree Sungazer

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

Pros of the 6.5 Creedmoor
- less affected by wind past 500metres
- less affected by Drop past 500metres
- less recoil
- shoots more accurately past 1000yards

Pros of the .308
- cheaper ammunition
- more accessible ammunition
- bigger impact whilst hunting therefore more humane kills
- you can hear it when it hits the gong at little river
- (Potentially heats up less, therefore potentially better for plinking)

This is what I mean Lads ^^^^^
My thread is 100% valid here
Those are all extremely interesting pros & cons
Anyone reading through that could learn something
(Especially new shooters of the future)

[in2anity]

- (Potentially heats up less, therefore potentially better for plinking)

The term "plinking" means different things to different people. In my eyes it refers to shooting volumes of cheap ammo at close range from standing offhand. The 22lr is the perfect fit for such a requirement; you can shoot your 22lr for hours at a time without burning out your throat, without quickly fatguing, and without breaking the bank. Futhermore, from standing offhand inside 100m, the 22lr is basically more accurate than I am. And there's no point expending pricy ammo when you can't realise the accuracy...

Nevertheless I have "plinked" with my 308w silhoutte build in the past, practising specifically for High Power Metallic Silhoutte comp. I was reloading a 30cal lead bullet over a case of Trail Boss, and aiming at (relatively scaled) Metallic silhoutte targets placed on the 50 or 100m line:

30/30 Lead bullet over Trail Boss in the 308w

IMG_6268.JPG (464.75 KiB) Viewed 6923 times

Metallic Silhoutte Practice Targets

IMG_6736.JPG (1.24 MiB) Viewed 6923 times

"Plinking" the 308w at 50m

IMG_6789.jpg (1.48 MiB) Viewed 6923 times

Now you can't really do that with the 6.5cm can you? nor would you want to... the 6.5cm is wasted inside 500m.

Like I mentioned before, it's oftern the little things that make a gun+calibre desirable to you - things you won't find out until you have taken the plunge yourself. Things that are specific to your personal requirements. The "makes a slap on the gong" one is another great example of a perk that no keyboard hunter will every be aware of.

[Spanielz11]

G'day TheFirearmEnthusiast

Might thought process may be a little different to some of the guys so far, but i have been in the exact same position as you, bought a Tikka T3 CTR in 308 because i wanted to do both hunting and target work.
what i found for hunting was : the oversized bolt handle was annoying as all buggery slung, the magazine added another snag point, it was really like and good to hump with, 20" barrel was awesome to use in the bush.
for targets : barrel was to short, stock was to light, magazine would have been good if i was shooting PRS.

What i am saying is that hunting rifle and target rifle are very very different beasts, yes for sure you can have one that does both, but to have one that excels in both areas you would be looking at a very expensive custom rig with years of experience shooting to make the call of what you need.

My advice, if you want a 6.5 creed to hunt with and shoot at the range, grab that Tikka. nothing stopping you from shooting it at the range (i believe any hunting worth there salt should practice at a variety of distances anyway).
If you are keen on shooting targets and going trying your hand at competition or you just want to ring that old steel gong at 1k, have a look on the used guns sites and look for an Omark. at most a decent condition one will set you back $800. for that kind of money do you really mind if you buy it just to shoot at paper?

[Am88]

All well and good, personally I think you may need a little more practice with the .22 before you start going in to that territory. I remember the first time I pulled the trigger on a .308. Gave me bit of a fright TBH, regardless I was only 50 odd kg's at the time. it's only a little old .308, but if your pushing a 180 grain pill, it's gunna kick a little. Then I remember the first time I shot my .308 off a bench. I was all excited and thought yeah this will be great. I didn't enjoy it at all, a hunting rifle in .308 weighing about 8 pounds or so, and after 10 rounds, I put it back in the case..... with a sore shoulder.

Point being, I wouldn't be getting too carried away, until proper technique and everything else is good. Because you will be disappointing when you can't hit that 8" metal gong at 500m because you have a tiny flinch, or the bags are slightly misaligned, or you not sitting behind the gun properly. This is just another opinion, and believe me when I say I'm a terrible Bench shooter, I have poor bench technique, lack in equipment to do it and generally don't enjoy it as the range is busy and too many people. BUT.... I can hit an apple on a tree stump shot after shot at 200m out of a ute window with a 50gr ballistic tip, different technique.