meawls wrote:I’ve just lately started dabbling in this area ... simply because it’s fun... and there’s not much info out there - frustrating. Happy to share results so far FWIW ... For those interested, 20 clicks upwards from a “normal” 100M zero on a scope with 1/4” increments will get you on paper. All loads with Federal match primers,and 5gns trailboss ... didn’t want to go much lower because it would leave quite an airspace in the cases, which by all accounts leads to increased deviation in velocities, which by all accounts leads to less accuracy. All were groups of 3 fired at 100 metres ... Remington 700 with 1:12 Twist: Barnes grenades 30gn: V=1729-56 FPS, 3.38” (including 2 into 0.532”); Sierra SP 40gn: V = 1430-37 (outstanding deviation!), 1.134”; Tikka FMJ 50gn: V = 1352-83, 0.500” (yep ... that’s 1/2 MOA! ... Despite the deviation). Mossberg with 1:9 Twist: Barnes: V = 1607-1728 (shocking deviation!) 2.99”; Sierra: V = 1393-1453, 2.81”; Tikka: V = 1336-94, 1.375”.
Early lessons ... I regard speed of sound at around 1080, but it’s variable dependant upon conditions ... several ballistic calculators will calculate this for you after the parameters are entered. Each of these loads easily exceed the speed of sound ... by boy-ohhh-boy were they fun to fire, especially in that massive VSSF! And how about exactly 1/2” at 100M ...?! Wouldn’t need to expand at all for easy day-long headshots. I was unsure whether these loads would stabilise in the 1:12 barrel ... but they sure did. I’ve loaded up identical loads for each rifle using 62gn Nosler Varmaggedons, and these should be much closer to the sound barrier .. not to mention point of inability to stabilise in THAT barrel. I’ll get back to you on these when I get opportunity to test.
I also plan to substitute the BR primers for magnums once I’ve found a load that sits just below the barrier ... by all accounts these tend to result in less velocity deviation ... will get back to you on this too.
meawls wrote:That’s exactly what these loads were ... simply to establish ballpark, and shared for the community due to their being not much else out there ... No point in batching up lots of loads if they ain’t where I need em to be !! I’ll be letting you know when things really start to rock and roll.
Can anybody verify or refute whether lots of airspace in a TB load = lots of velocity deviation .... all else being equal ... or is this hearsay/furphy??
SCJ429 wrote:Four grain of Trailboss in your 223 case should be about 70% of the case filled depending how deep you seat the pill.
SCJ429 wrote:Thanks Blade, four grains is less than half then. I remember starting at four grains which was subsonic and could be shot without hearing protection. Groups were not great at 50 metres.
meawls wrote:I wouldn't hang my hat on the results of three-shot "groups" either, but they're okay to get ballpark velocities so you know how close to subsonic you are.
ash_hendo wrote:"Four grain of Trailboss in your 223 case should be about 70% of the case filled depending how deep you seat the pill."
Has anyone used AS30N? Does it fill the case a bit more? I've heard 50-60% is the max you should go without filler.
Noise is a concern, but so is meat damage, but it should be at least as lethal as a 1200fps 40gn 22LR Hollow-point: Which is going to meet the requirements better I wonder ? Heavy 90gn@1070fps or 40gn at 1800fps in a 1:8 twist 16.5" barrel....
Bill wrote:Im struggling to understand the point of this thread, 22LR
Bill wrote:Im struggling to understand the point of this thread, 22LR
Bill wrote:Im struggling to understand the point of this thread, 22LR
Oldbloke wrote:Come on, all Bill is saying is that in a practical way a 22 would fill the need. Almost everyone has a 22lr, so why bother. But duplicating a 22 hornet can make sense in some cases.
Bill wrote:absolutely spot on Oldbloke, if anything Im reading some reloading suggestion ( low powder charges) that if a new reloader attempted may end up with only a partially covered primer.
Nuthin wrong with my opinion and Ill continue to freely express it SCJ429
Ive successful downloaded a 7.62x39 to around 900fps with TB with a sound similar sound to a meaty 22 so threads on subsonic load interest me.
Bill wrote:absolutely spot on Oldbloke, if anything Im reading some reloading suggestion ( low powder charges) that if a new reloader attempted may end up with only a partially covered primer.
Nuthin wrong with my opinion and Ill continue to freely express it SCJ429
Ive successful downloaded a 7.62x39 to around 900fps with TB with a sound similar sound to a meaty 22 so threads on subsonic load interest me.
sungazer wrote:OK you two back in your boxes no need to argue.
Bill wrote:Lol thank SCJ429, trailboss data is already available online for most cases a apart from the small stuff. Deep seating a long Heavy projectile into the ruski case makes it one of the best for subsonic loads, this combination doesn't exist for the 223.
A subsonic 223 load just makes little sense for so many reason which plenty of otherwise have already pointed out.
Happy to have my posts challenged or criticised, safety is paramount to me and those around me