.223 subsonic ammo

[ash_hendo]

"Four grain of Trailboss in your 223 case should be about 70% of the case filled depending how deep you seat the pill."

Has anyone used AS30N? Does it fill the case a bit more? I've heard 50-60% is the max you should go without filler.

Noise is a concern, but so is meat damage, but it should be at least as lethal as a 1200fps 40gn 22LR Hollow-point: Which is going to meet the requirements better I wonder ? Heavy 90gn@1070fps or 40gn at 1800fps in a 1:8 twist 16.5" barrel....

[bladeracer]

"Four grain of Trailboss in your 223 case should be about 70% of the case filled depending how deep you seat the pill."

Has anyone used AS30N? Does it fill the case a bit more? I've heard 50-60% is the max you should go without filler.

Noise is a concern, but so is meat damage, but it should be at least as lethal as a 1200fps 40gn 22LR Hollow-point: Which is going to meet the requirements better I wonder ? Heavy 90gn@1070fps or 40gn at 1800fps in a 1:8 twist 16.5" barrel....

I have AP70N but I haven't tried it in rifle rounds as I have Trailboss - I love Trailboss.
If you're really concerned about case fiĺl just use some filler on top of the charge, I've never bothered and I've been below 300fps in .243. I look at greatly-reduced loads as being for close-range, so 100m MoA is way good enough for me, I haven't done much to try to build subsonic long-range precision loads outside of .38, .357, .44 lever-action loads for shooting silhouettes out to 200m.

.22LR is soft lead which deforms regardless of design. Jacketed bullets are contained by the jacket so they struggle to deform when used thousands of fps below their design remit. A heavier bullet carries more energy at the same velocity, but at subsonic speeds it's very likely to pencil through anything up to about fox size. As with .22LR, shot placement is vital. FMJ bullets kill just fine as long as you place them properly. A soft lead .22LR bullet is very often a better hunting choice if you don't need the deeper penetration of a heavier bullet. Or even better, cast your own heavy soft lead bullets, a 180gn pure lead 8x57mm bullet at 1080fps hits pretty damned hard.

Something I am playing with just now is jacketed bullets in .22LR.

[Oldbloke]

Slightly off topic
Try 7.6 gr AS50N 55gr SP about 2200fps just aa tad over moa.

[Bill]

Im struggling to understand the point of this thread, 22LR

[bladeracer]

Im struggling to understand the point of this thread, 22LR

Versatility primarily I think, I always have low-velocity rounds with me in the field as very few shots require the full effect of whatever I'm hunting with.
Plus, the experimenting is good fun and educational.

[Oldbloke]

Im struggling to understand the point of this thread, 22LR

Agree

[SCJ429]

Im struggling to understand the point of this thread, 22LR

The point of a thread is to simulate conversation about a topic that interests you. After two pages this thread has done it very well.

There is no obligation for you to read it or post on it if it doesn't interest you. You wouldn't go to a golf forum and tell them how pointless you see their game, would you?

[Oldbloke]

Come on, all Bill is saying is that in a practical way a 22 would fill the need. Almost everyone has a 22lr, so why bother. But duplicating a 22 hornet can make sense in some cases.

[Bill]

absolutely spot on Oldbloke, if anything Im reading some reloading suggestion ( low powder charges) that if a new reloader attempted may end up with only a partially covered primer.

Nuthin wrong with my opinion and Ill continue to freely express it SCJ429

Ive successful downloaded a 7.62x39 to around 900fps with TB with a sound similar sound to a meaty 22 so threads on subsonic load interest me.

[bladeracer]

Come on, all Bill is saying is that in a practical way a 22 would fill the need. Almost everyone has a 22lr, so why bother. But duplicating a 22 hornet can make sense in some cases.

Because not many of us want to carry two or three firearms every time we go out, one rifle with different loads can do different jobs.
It the reason they've made chamber inserts for shotguns for a century or more, so they can shoot lower-powered rounds when required.

[bladeracer]

absolutely spot on Oldbloke, if anything Im reading some reloading suggestion ( low powder charges) that if a new reloader attempted may end up with only a partially covered primer.

Nuthin wrong with my opinion and Ill continue to freely express it SCJ429

Ive successful downloaded a 7.62x39 to around 900fps with TB with a sound similar sound to a meaty 22 so threads on subsonic load interest me.

Why would a partially covered primer matter?

[SCJ429]

absolutely spot on Oldbloke, if anything Im reading some reloading suggestion ( low powder charges) that if a new reloader attempted may end up with only a partially covered primer.

Nuthin wrong with my opinion and Ill continue to freely express it SCJ429

Ive successful downloaded a 7.62x39 to around 900fps with TB with a sound similar sound to a meaty 22 so threads on subsonic load interest me.

What if everyone thought that this forum was a place for people interested in firearms to discuss issues in a positive and constructive manner. If you had something to contribute regarding your experiences with your 762 x 39 it would make interesting reading. I would not expect anyone to post that your efforts were pointless.

In regards to the low powder charge, four grains of Trailboss is ADIs recommended subsonic powder charge.

[Bill]

Lol thank SCJ429, trailboss data is already available online for most cases a apart from the small stuff. Deep seating a long Heavy projectile into the ruski case makes it one of the best for subsonic loads, this combination doesn't exist for the 223.

A subsonic 223 load just makes little sense for so many reason which plenty of otherwise have already pointed out.

Happy to have my posts challenged or criticised, safety is paramount to me and those around me

[sungazer]

OK you two back in your boxes no need to argue.

Yes Bill a lot of cartridges and the way they are loaded make no sense to me either but others enjoy them and that is all that matters.

I suppose shooting a 40grn bullet at 1080 fps means you dont have to buy a 22LR

[Bill]

Twist rates also seem to present other problems, thou I'm sure proj selection may alleviate this

https://loaddata.com/Article/LoadDevelo ... -Loads/234

[Oldbloke]

OK you two back in your boxes no need to argue.

Lets kiss and make up.

Hand shake.jpeg (44.29 KiB) Viewed 6603 times

[duncan61]

I started a thread on subsonic .243 but this thread is running better and I am learning what I need.If I bite the bullet and spend $150 on 1,5 kg of trailboss I will probably go with the fill to the base of the neck and weigh the charge.A consideration that has not been mentioned is the firearm that is intended to be used.My .243 is A black plastic and steel HOWA that I have painted the barrel camo my .222 and 7mm Rem are stainless and a bit shiny for late afternoon hunting rabbits.The property I have just gained is 20 acres in a bush community there are neighbors and people shoot but not high power centre fire rifles.A subsonic 80gn PSP in 6mm should do the job.I will zero for 40 metres.I did this on a property when I had a scoped .22LR and Winny Z ammo.I had a range finder so knew exact distance.The house I was working on was up on a sand pad and the rabbits were in the valley where the river went past amongst a pile off old dead cars.I head shot one at 72 metres with about an inch of hold over.I had the rifle sitting on the benchrest at the end of the trench I was working in so I would look up every now and then and if a bunny was out I would crawl along the trench then take my shot.I got 6 and gave 2 to the blokes italian mum.The only thing I did wrong was bury all the guts and skin in the trench and it got dug up and spread every where.

[bladeracer]

Lol thank SCJ429, trailboss data is already available online for most cases a apart from the small stuff. Deep seating a long Heavy projectile into the ruski case makes it one of the best for subsonic loads, this combination doesn't exist for the 223.

A subsonic 223 load just makes little sense for so many reason which plenty of otherwise have already pointed out.

Happy to have my posts challenged or criticised, safety is paramount to me and those around me

I haven't tried shooting the 80gn at subsonic velocities but I'll try them and see how they go. Even a 50gn subsonic bullet offers advantages over .22LR.

[bladeracer]

You bring up another good point, Duncan, the firearms themselves. I read last week about a Scandinavian country that only allows you to own five firearms. Likewise the UK that has similar restrictions. These places would have good reason to use subsonic loads to greatly increase the versatility of the few firearms they have. I can't see it circumventing all the cheap fun that a .22LR brings, but a .243 with a wide range of bullet weights, 55gn to 115gn, at a range of velocities, 4000fps down to low subsonic, would be an excellent way to fill a slot when you can only own a few rifles. Of course, the UK also hugely restricts how much ammo you can own, but that's a different problem.

[Stix]

Lol thank SCJ429, trailboss data is already available online for most cases a apart from the small stuff. Deep seating a long Heavy projectile into the ruski case makes it one of the best for subsonic loads, this combination doesn't exist for the 223.

A subsonic 223 load just makes little sense for so many reason which plenty of otherwise have already pointed out.

Happy to have my posts challenged or criticised, safety is paramount to me and those around me

Shooting is fun...period...getting involved enough to make your own ammo & have fun with reduced ppwer loads just makes for more different fun.

Some people see no point in a modern 30 cal with the trajectory of a 22lr...but people still buy them & im sure they're still fun to shoot...cos shooting is just fun..

Id rather shoot a reduced loaded 223 than a 22lr any day, whether it be at bunnies, paper or steel at 200 yds...yay...!!...

[ash_hendo]

Something I am playing with just now is jacketed bullets in .22LR.

That sounds interesting !

[ash_hendo]

Im struggling to understand the point of this thread, 22LR

The point of a thread is to simulate conversation about a topic that interests you. After two pages this thread has done it very well.

There is no obligation for you to read it or post on it if it doesn't interest you. You wouldn't go to a golf forum and tell them how pointless you see their game, would you?

So the Greens aren't the only thought police that are trying to tell people what they should and shouldn't be interested in

The point is to make one gun more versatile.

[ash_hendo]

Twist rates also seem to present other problems, thou I'm sure proj selection may alleviate this

https://loaddata.com/Article/LoadDevelo ... -Loads/234

Interesting, I've heard .22lr in a .223 adaptor can have problems because of twist rates, has anyone ever actually seen/used one of those adaptors? On paper they look like a good way to get an inexpensive, quiet rabbit plinker out of a .223 or .22-250

[Oldbloke]

Interesting, I've heard .22lr in a .223 adaptor can have problems because of twist rates, has anyone ever actually seen/used one of those adaptors? On paper they look like a good way to get an inexpensive, quiet rabbit plinker out of a .223 or .22-250

I was looking at them a few weeks ago. Mostly seem to be about 6" barrels, so results would be low velocities and at best average accuaracy.

[bladeracer]

Interesting, I've heard .22lr in a .223 adaptor can have problems because of twist rates, has anyone ever actually seen/used one of those adaptors? On paper they look like a good way to get an inexpensive, quiet rabbit plinker out of a .223 or .22-250

I can't see it being any different to shooting cast bullets, if you can shoot soft cast bullets okay you should be able to shoot .22LR without any difficulty.

The recent thread about drillings has me hunting for a .224" barrel I can machine to drop into a shotgun bore. With a .22 Hornet chambering I think it'd be quite useful to make a standard double gun into a poor man's 12ga./.22 Hornet "drilling".

[duncan61]

I sorted my loading gear on the weekend and the only 80gn .243 pills I have is 46 x Nosler Varmageddon that one of my crew purchased which I do not think are suitable.I am a plumber and have lots of scrap lead and made sinkers for beach casting.I would love to cast my own .243 lead bullets and launch them at less than 1000 fps.Winchester long Z are 29gn and doing 770 fps and are seriously quiet.I can make a bit of a pop just not louder than a standard .22LR.I am getting excited and have just found out we are moving on the weekend to a house with a proper workshop plus we are going to use my mate with the rabbit place to excavate a job for a few weeks at the end of January so happy days

[bladeracer]

Interesting, I've heard .22lr in a .223 adaptor can have problems because of twist rates, has anyone ever actually seen/used one of those adaptors? On paper they look like a good way to get an inexpensive, quiet rabbit plinker out of a .223 or .22-250

I was looking at them a few weeks ago. Mostly seem to be about 6" barrels, so results would be low velocities and at best average accuaracy.

I think you are confusing these with the shotgun adaptors. He's referring to "sub-caliber" adaptors for rifles, to let you shoot smaller .22-chamberings in a .223 or .22-250, or 32ACP in .303/7.62x54R for example. They call them sub-caliber but the caliber doesn't change.

[bladeracer]

I sorted my loading gear on the weekend and the only 80gn .243 pills I have is 46 x Nosler Varmageddon that one of my crew purchased which I do not think are suitable.I am a plumber and have lots of scrap lead and made sinkers for beach casting.I would love to cast my own .243 lead bullets and launch them at less than 1000 fps.Winchester long Z are 29gn and doing 770 fps and are seriously quiet.I can make a bit of a pop just not louder than a standard .22LR.I am getting excited and have just found out we are moving on the weekend to a house with a proper workshop plus we are going to use my mate with the rabbit place to excavate a job for a few weeks at the end of January so happy days

I use the Lee mould, very cheap, and all you need is a ladle and a gas torch, and some Lee Alox lube.

[duncan61]

There appears to be many moulds out there any advice on ordering one in Australia 80gn .243

[bladeracer]

There appears to be many moulds out there any advice on ordering one in Australia 80gn .243

If you want a specific weight you might need a custom mould.
CBE do excellent moulds, but they are more expensive.
http://www.castbulletengineering.com.au ... mm-calibre