223 ackley

Calibres, cartridges, ballistics tables and ammunition information.

223 ackley

Post by bigrich » 01 Jan 2021, 3:25 pm

has anyone played with this . 223 case with a 40 degree shoulder , just a reamer job . according to some online reveiws it can be a useful thing. dunno how to post a link , but a blog by westernpowders.com november 10 , 2017 makes for a interesting read. just wondering if it is worth reaming a chamber :unknown:

besides, it's xmas hols and i'm bored ............. :lol:
User avatar
bigrich
Brigadier
Brigadier
 
Posts: 4483
Queensland

Re: 223 ackley

Post by Oldbloke » 01 Jan 2021, 4:23 pm

IMO.

223, 204 or 22.250.

Why root around?
The greatest invention in the history of man is beer.
https://youtu.be/2v3QrUvYj-Y
Member. SFFP, Shooters Union.
SSAA, the powerful gun lobby. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Hunt safe.
User avatar
Oldbloke
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 11192
Victoria

Re: 223 ackley

Post by SCJ429 » 01 Jan 2021, 5:50 pm

It is worth doing just because the case looks so much cooler. And you get a little more speed. You can still shoot standard 223 ammo which groups pretty well.
SCJ429
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 3207
New South Wales

Re: 223 ackley

Post by AZZA'S HJ47 » 01 Jan 2021, 6:12 pm

Yes also thinking the same thing i was reading a build up thread from the states regarding a 223 AI and a 1-7 twist barrell. Have also thought the same thing with a 222 rem mag AI but then again Id be getting into something a little more Oddball if i were to do that.

My 22-250AI shoots under a inch whilst fireforming brass would be worthwhile adding another ackley to the chest as i dont have a sporter 223.
Sako Varmint 243,Marlin 917, Lithgow La101 .22 , 1917 BSA 303 (ted), Finnish Vkt 1944 M39,T3X Super Varmint 223, Marlin 1895 SBL 45-70 Howa 1500 308, BSA CF2 222, 1911 9mm, Adler 12G, Sako 7mm rem Mag,Ruger m77 mk1 22-250AI, Rem 700 17 Rem, BSA No 5 303
User avatar
AZZA'S HJ47
Sergeant
Sergeant
 
Posts: 687
Queensland

Re: 223 ackley

Post by bigrich » 01 Jan 2021, 6:39 pm

Oldbloke wrote:IMO.

223, 204 or 22.250.

Why root around?


valid point OB , but i like projects and have a keen technical interest in ballistics . something different i guess . it would definately shoot 40 BT's very flat

:drinks: :drinks: :thumbsup:
User avatar
bigrich
Brigadier
Brigadier
 
Posts: 4483
Queensland

Re: 223 ackley

Post by bigrich » 01 Jan 2021, 6:44 pm

SCJ429 wrote:It is worth doing just because the case looks so much cooler. And you get a little more speed. You can still shoot standard 223 ammo which groups pretty well.


this is a interesting part , good accuracy/ability to shoot factory, then reload the ackley formed case for a bit more . from what i'm getting from the data , 55gn projectils don't get much of a boost from the ackley case , but the lighter projectiles get a good boost in FPS :D

according to shooters of the ackley 223 , case trimming is almost redundant with the 40 degree shoulder :thumbsup:
User avatar
bigrich
Brigadier
Brigadier
 
Posts: 4483
Queensland

Re: 223 ackley

Post by Oldbloke » 01 Jan 2021, 6:46 pm

Lol. I'm boring. :)
The greatest invention in the history of man is beer.
https://youtu.be/2v3QrUvYj-Y
Member. SFFP, Shooters Union.
SSAA, the powerful gun lobby. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Hunt safe.
User avatar
Oldbloke
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 11192
Victoria

Re: 223 ackley

Post by bigrich » 01 Jan 2021, 6:50 pm

AZZA'S HJ47 wrote:Yes also thinking the same thing i was reading a build up thread from the states regarding a 223 AI and a 1-7 twist barrell. Have also thought the same thing with a 222 rem mag AI but then again Id be getting into something a little more Oddball if i were to do that.

My 22-250AI shoots under a inch whilst fireforming brass would be worthwhile adding another ackley to the chest as i dont have a sporter 223.


it's a interesting idea 223 ackley , apparently redding make FLS dies and such . i'm looking at this from the availability of free 223 brass as well . it's the reason i did my 358 win rifle build . i've been given lots of free 308 brass to be easily resized and annealed . cheap to run in that regard . after a trip a couple of days ago i can say 358 win anchors pigs on the spot . they just literally sit down as their legs fold under :D

:drinks: :drinks: :thumbsup:
User avatar
bigrich
Brigadier
Brigadier
 
Posts: 4483
Queensland

Re: 223 ackley

Post by bigrich » 01 Jan 2021, 6:56 pm

Oldbloke wrote:Lol. I'm boring. :)


every view and opinion is relevant on a forum mate , a different perspective on things can be very enlightening , sometimes keeping it simple by stepping up to 22-250 makes more sense . :thumbsup: did i mention my local gun shop has a REALLY nice L579 sako in 22-250 ........ :P

i'm thinking with availability of 223 rifles and brass it would be interesting project from what i'm reading about the ballistics .
as flat shooting as a 204 ruger with the 40's in the 223 ackley while based on a common rifle/caliber :thumbsup:
User avatar
bigrich
Brigadier
Brigadier
 
Posts: 4483
Queensland

Re: 223 ackley

Post by Bello » 01 Jan 2021, 11:20 pm

Hi guys
I met a guy at the range a while ago, he was using his 223AI, for comp shooting.
He had won or placed well in a few comps with it.
User avatar
Bello
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 313
New South Wales

Re: 223 ackley

Post by Strikey » 02 Jan 2021, 9:07 am

If you're even thinking about doing a 223AI then I recommend you just do it. It's a little bit more than a rechamber as the barrel will need to be set back slightly but nothing a competent gunsmith can't achieve. I rechambered a brand new Howa 223 to AI and its a sweet little cartridge especially with Sierra 69grn Matchkings.
Strikey
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 316
Queensland

Re: 223 ackley

Post by Blr243 » 02 Jan 2021, 9:19 am

When u fire a standard 223 in an ankley chamber, what happens to the headspace prior to it being fire formed? Does the extractor claw hold it close enough to the bolt face?
Blr243
Brigadier
Brigadier
 
Posts: 4479
Queensland

Re: 223 ackley

Post by Baronvonrort » 02 Jan 2021, 10:30 am

SCJ429 wrote:It is worth doing just because the case looks so much cooler. And you get a little more speed. You can still shoot standard 223 ammo which groups pretty well.


I can't see any downside with doing it.
Attachments
917113_299496103548935_1796078169_n.jpg
917113_299496103548935_1796078169_n.jpg (63.35 KiB) Viewed 7020 times
Baronvonrort
Staff Sergeant
Staff Sergeant
 
Posts: 896
New South Wales

Re: 223 ackley

Post by JimTom » 02 Jan 2021, 11:12 am

Interesting little project mate. I didn’t know a whole lot about AI however have done a bit of reading after this thread ignited some interest. Let us know how you proceed mate.
User avatar
JimTom
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
 
Posts: 2130
Queensland

Re: 223 ackley

Post by bigrich » 02 Jan 2021, 1:18 pm

i'm suprised at the interest in the 223 ackley idea . i'll save my pennies and see if i can make it happen . i'd be interested to hear about any interesting ballistics "strikey" since you've done it

i was thinking with 40 and 50 BT's it might work like a mini 22-250 in terms of a flatter trajectory .

i have a weatherby vangaurd , but the barrels down to 20.5" and it's a 1-9 twist . i only want to shoot 40-55 grain projectiles.

any opinion on twist rate if i rebarrel or seek a donor rifle :unknown:

:drinks: :drinks: :thumbsup:
User avatar
bigrich
Brigadier
Brigadier
 
Posts: 4483
Queensland

Re: 223 ackley

Post by bigrich » 02 Jan 2021, 1:26 pm

hmmm, the big "C" have stainless IBI 223 barrels , 1-12 twist , varmit and sporter profiles . $399 ;)
User avatar
bigrich
Brigadier
Brigadier
 
Posts: 4483
Queensland

Re: 223 ackley

Post by Strikey » 02 Jan 2021, 1:30 pm

Blr243 wrote:When u fire a standard 223 in an ankley chamber, what happens to the headspace prior to it being fire formed? Does the extractor claw hold it close enough to the bolt face?

When a barrel is rechambered to Ackley Improved the barrel is set back to close up the headspace, the parent cartridge should be a slight crush fit on the shoulder if the gunsmith has done it properly. For fireforming cases I load a max load 2206H with 55grn projectiles in 223 cases and they form nicely to AI.
Strikey
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 316
Queensland

Re: 223 ackley

Post by Blr243 » 02 Jan 2021, 2:32 pm

Thanks strike a light
Blr243
Brigadier
Brigadier
 
Posts: 4479
Queensland

Re: 223 ackley

Post by SCJ429 » 02 Jan 2021, 3:44 pm

I don't shoot 40 grain projectiles but I got a little over 100 fps increase shooting 50 grain VMax. When shooting 80 grain Bergers I got over 200 fps increase in speed which is very handy when shooting out to 500 metres.

I did not experience any increase or decrease in accuracy so don't expect the case to suddenly shoot like a PPC. I shot some local comps and the Fly shoot with it but didn't come close to guys shooting a 6mm BR. If someone won a competition using the 223AI case, then the standard wasn't particularly high, either that or he was heaps better than me. :shock:
SCJ429
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 3207
New South Wales

Re: 223 ackley

Post by Strikey » 02 Jan 2021, 3:59 pm

bigrich wrote:i'm suprised at the interest in the 223 ackley idea . i'll save my pennies and see if i can make it happen . i'd be interested to hear about any interesting ballistics "strikey" since you've done it

i was thinking with 40 and 50 BT's it might work like a mini 22-250 in terms of a flatter trajectory .

i have a weatherby vangaurd , but the barrels down to 20.5" and it's a 1-9 twist . i only want to shoot 40-55 grain projectiles.

any opinion on twist rate if i rebarrel or seek a donor rifle :unknown:

:drinks: :drinks: :thumbsup:

Can't help you with 40 and 50grn projectiles, I only use the Speer 55's for fireforming, with Sierra 52grn Matchkings I am getting 3640/50fps and Sierra 69grn Matchkings 3140fps, mainly used as a range rifle, barrel length is just short of 24 inches, Howa varmint 1in 9 twist with a 11 degree target crown. Reckon I could squeeze more velocity out of it but being a typical Howa it needs the firing pin to be bushed, I'm using BR4 primers and get the occasional one that will pierce, that problem will be fixed when it gets a new barrel.
Strikey
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 316
Queensland

Re: 223 ackley

Post by Strikey » 02 Jan 2021, 4:04 pm

SCJ429 wrote:I don't shoot 40 grain projectiles but I got a little over 100 fps increase shooting 50 grain VMax. When shooting 80 grain Bergers I got over 200 fps increase in speed which is very handy when shooting out to 500 metres.

I did not experience any increase or decrease in accuracy so don't expect the case to suddenly shoot like a PPC. I shot some local comps and the Fly shoot with it but didn't come close to guys shooting a 6mm BR. If someone won a competition using the 223AI case, then the standard wasn't particularly high, either that or he was heaps better than me. :shock:

A common misconception is that AI calibres are more accurate, they are more efficient but I have not seen better accuracy. The extra velocity that can be achieved with the 223AI pushing the heavier 22cal projectiles makes good use of their higher BC and to me that's the advantage over a standard 223Rem.
Strikey
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 316
Queensland

Re: 223 ackley

Post by bigrich » 02 Jan 2021, 5:08 pm

Strikey wrote:
bigrich wrote:i'm suprised at the interest in the 223 ackley idea . i'll save my pennies and see if i can make it happen . i'd be interested to hear about any interesting ballistics "strikey" since you've done it

i was thinking with 40 and 50 BT's it might work like a mini 22-250 in terms of a flatter trajectory .

i have a weatherby vangaurd , but the barrels down to 20.5" and it's a 1-9 twist . i only want to shoot 40-55 grain projectiles.

any opinion on twist rate if i rebarrel or seek a donor rifle :unknown:

:drinks: :drinks: :thumbsup:

Can't help you with 40 and 50grn projectiles, I only use the Speer 55's for fireforming, with Sierra 52grn Matchkings I am getting 3640/50fps and Sierra 69grn Matchkings 3140fps, mainly used as a range rifle, barrel length is just short of 24 inches, Howa varmint 1in 9 twist with a 11 degree target crown. Reckon I could squeeze more velocity out of it but being a typical Howa it needs the firing pin to be bushed, I'm using BR4 primers and get the occasional one that will pierce, that problem will be fixed when it gets a new barrel.


3640fps is moving along , it's not too far behind a 22-250 for less powder . i'd assume 40's should break 3750 or more . sounds like a good "varmit" rig on the cheap that's got a bit more reach :thumbsup:
User avatar
bigrich
Brigadier
Brigadier
 
Posts: 4483
Queensland

Re: 223 ackley

Post by deye243 » 04 Jan 2021, 4:29 am

AI chamberings are only worth it if you have a separate barrel to screw in to fire form brass otherwise you are just burning up your throat on a bloody good barrel absolute waste of friggin time
User avatar
deye243
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
 
Posts: 2208
Victoria

Re: 223 ackley

Post by Baronvonrort » 04 Jan 2021, 10:23 am

deye243 wrote:AI chamberings are only worth it if you have a separate barrel to screw in to fire form brass otherwise you are just burning up your throat on a bloody good barrel absolute waste of friggin time


There are options for brass that don't involve fire forming which doesn't burn up barrels.

Video here- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCqb_7UYh9k
Attachments
brass2-1024x640.jpg
brass2-1024x640.jpg (126.38 KiB) Viewed 6886 times
Baronvonrort
Staff Sergeant
Staff Sergeant
 
Posts: 896
New South Wales

Re: 223 ackley

Post by bigrich » 04 Jan 2021, 2:16 pm

deye243 wrote:AI chamberings are only worth it if you have a separate barrel to screw in to fire form brass otherwise you are just burning up your throat on a bloody good barrel absolute waste of friggin time


i thought of using trailboss or pistol powder with packing in the case and a wad of soap in the neck . it's bin the fireforming method since uncle nick was a little fella ,without using up barrel life :thumbsup:
User avatar
bigrich
Brigadier
Brigadier
 
Posts: 4483
Queensland

Re: 223 ackley

Post by straightshooter » 05 Jan 2021, 7:12 am

The AI range of cartridges have only one real advantage and that is the reduction of case stretching with repeated use.
Most other advantages, such as the one most are sold on which is the massive increases in velocity, are closer to a fantasy and is propagated by those who entertain magical beliefs.
In P.O. Ackley's time there was no ready access to chronographs, unlike today, so advertising hyperbole was commonplace.
Yes you can attain those fantastic velocity increases but at the cost dangerously high pressures, which can equally be achieved with similarly high pressures in the standard cartridge.
"Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about."
"There is no expedient to which a man will not resort to avoid the real labor of thinking." Sir Joshua Reynolds
straightshooter
Warrant Officer C1
Warrant Officer C1
 
Posts: 1263
New South Wales

Re: 223 ackley

Post by bigrich » 05 Jan 2021, 8:41 am

straightshooter wrote:The AI range of cartridges have only one real advantage and that is the reduction of case stretching with repeated use.
Most other advantages, such as the one most are sold on which is the massive increases in velocity, are closer to a fantasy and is propagated by those who entertain magical beliefs.
In P.O. Ackley's time there was no ready access to chronographs, unlike today, so advertising hyperbole was commonplace.
Yes you can attain those fantastic velocity increases but at the cost dangerously high pressures, which can equally be achieved with similarly high pressures in the standard cartridge.


the more i investigate this chambering the more it sounds like there is a degree of optimism about gains . there are gains to be had, and case stretching is reduced . some of the good gains listed with much faster velocitys, seem unique to certain rifles rather than being the normal result . i'm starting to think 22-250 loaded up and down is more flexiable a cartridge , even if it does use more powder .

all in all, it does make for a interesting topic if you like discussing the technical aspects of ballistics . on some american forums i've researched they make a big deal out of shooting deer with 69, 75 grain projectiles out of the 223ai . i think a 243 at the very least would actually make more sense . my interest in this cartridge was to get a flatter shooting 22 without the need for a 22-250 , it's still a consideration and would copy 222 mag ballistics without needing 222mag cases :thumbsup:
User avatar
bigrich
Brigadier
Brigadier
 
Posts: 4483
Queensland

Re: 223 ackley

Post by SCJ429 » 05 Jan 2021, 9:50 pm

Gains are real, if you can shove more powder into the case, it will result in more velocity. I believe that a 200 fps gain from 80 grain projectiles is worthwhile for me.

If you want a more efficient 224, then the best case is the 22 BR which may be improved as in the BRX or the Dasher. These cases go close to 22/250 velocities.

I find that with a 243 AI, that throat erosion is not as bad as with the standard case. I admit that neither are particularly kind to the throat but then again I am leaning on them a bit to get the most velocity from 105 grain projectiles.
SCJ429
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 3207
New South Wales


Back to top
 
Return to Calibres, cartridges and ballistics