JohnV wrote:243 would do the job you mention but it's not a great cartridge for larger pigs and rear end shots so then the 270 can take over .
243 with 80 to 87 grain bullets works great on dogs and goats . There is no ballistic or kinetic advantage to using heavier than an 87 grain bullet on game like dogs and goats . If shooting through thick scrub at short ranges then there is an advantage to a heavier bullet but not greatly . .243 / 6mm is a recognized target caliber so lots of good bullet choice . The secret to getting a 243 to shoot well with full power loads is good bullets and good neck fit . The short neck does have some potential issues that can be minimized using skim neck turning and partial neck length sizing .
AZZA'S HJ47 wrote:Just get both mate we both know you want to
SCJ429 wrote:JohnV wrote:243 would do the job you mention but it's not a great cartridge for larger pigs and rear end shots so then the 270 can take over .
243 with 80 to 87 grain bullets works great on dogs and goats . There is no ballistic or kinetic advantage to using heavier than an 87 grain bullet on game like dogs and goats . If shooting through thick scrub at short ranges then there is an advantage to a heavier bullet but not greatly . .243 / 6mm is a recognized target caliber so lots of good bullet choice . The secret to getting a 243 to shoot well with full power loads is good bullets and good neck fit . The short neck does have some potential issues that can be minimized using skim neck turning and partial neck length sizing .
What are the issues around the length of the 243 neck? Does the 6mm Dasher also have these issues as its neck is even shorter? Do you think the WSM would be a better case if it had a longer neck?
LawrenceA wrote:Assuming you are talking M55's vs L461.
To say early Tikka's are better made than the same era Sako's is a bit of a stretch in my opinion.
Back in the day just about every pro shooter I knew ran a Tikka because they were just as good and cheaper.
For as long as Sako owned Tikka the Tikka has been their cheaper option.
Made with the same barrels etcetera but a cheaper action to produce.
JohnV wrote:SCJ429 wrote:JohnV wrote:243 would do the job. The short neck does have some potential issues that can be minimized using skim neck turning and partial neck length sizing .
What are the issues around the length of the 243 neck? Does the 6mm Dasher also have these issues as its neck is even shorter? Do you think the WSM would be a better case if it had a longer neck?
Short necks mean less length to play with bullet seating of boat tailed bullets . Less natural alignment then longer necks .
Less potential grip for any given neck tension amount like say a .001 grip or .002 etc. than a longer neck .
It's not a huge issue and standard .243 shoots fairly well anyway but you can squeeze out some extra accuracy by tightening up the neck fit by adding a slight shoulder from partial neck sizing that never gets resized ever . Body die is required and a Lee collet die with a washer over the case on the shell holder or a Redding bushing neck die adjusted so it don't size all the way down . Skim neck turn gets the neck wall thickness better and assists even bullet release and smoother operation in bushing dies . It also adds up to more concentrically seated projectiles but you have to make sure neck tension is sufficient to hold projectiles enough so that chambering from a magazine will not push them out of line . Short necks generally need slightly higher neck tensions unless you are target shooting and feeding one at a time in a push feed action .
Same applies to any short neck cartridge but precision in hand loading and dies etc. has come a long way nowadays and that helps a lot . Short necks do have one advantage in as much as they don't need as much drag to size the neck which helps reduce brass drawing and elongation , that slows down neck hardening which can adversely affect precision accuracy .
Annealing is still a good idea after 5 to 7 shots as long as you do it correctly and don't soften the case body below the shoulder .
GQshayne wrote:I have two M55 Tikkas, one in .243. I have owned it since 1986. It is comparable to a similar vintage Sako in my opinion. In those days, they were in direct competition. Until recently I used it as a pig gun, and could not say how many pigs were taken with it over the decades.
In the early days 85gn Sierras were used, and then 87gn Hornady Interlocks and 90gn Speer Hot core. On average size pigs, heavy construction projectiles such as Partitions are too heavy in my experience, so the stuff listed above has worked better. I have shot some big pigs at 200m with it, and never had any reason to think the calibre was not suitable. Maybe if I was seeing a lot of pigs over 100kg then the Partitions or something similar would work better.
I have reloaded for it after my first batch of factory PMC ammo supplied me some cases. I also acquired some other cases being Sako and some Winchester etc. I still have many of those original cases, and never once have I had an issue reloading any. As a hunter (not a target shooter), I always FL resize them, and some of those old cases would have had a few reloads by now.
I tried to show you a pic of it, but the upload limit appears to have changed.
bigrich wrote:LawrenceA wrote:Assuming you are talking M55's vs L461.
To say early Tikka's are better made than the same era Sako's is a bit of a stretch in my opinion.
Back in the day just about every pro shooter I knew ran a Tikka because they were just as good and cheaper.
For as long as Sako owned Tikka the Tikka has been their cheaper option.
Made with the same barrels etcetera but a cheaper action to produce.
yes the m55 ,early ,all steel tikka is the model i'm refering to . yeah , okay .the sako's are nicer finished, but the m55's i've handled are very well made
i'm starting to think that in terms of simplicity sticking with a push feed mod 70 winnie might be the go . the tikkas have a great trigger , but the model 70's can be very nice too. top loading a 70 when your on the run is pretty easy compared to reloading the tikkas precision fitting steel mag
i have spares for the winnies, and their easy to bed . another plus for them
oh decisions,decisions
SCJ429 wrote:JohnV wrote:SCJ429 wrote:JohnV wrote:243 would do the job. The short neck does have some potential issues that can be minimized using skim neck turning and partial neck length sizing .
What are the issues around the length of the 243 neck? Does the 6mm Dasher also have these issues as its neck is even shorter? Do you think the WSM would be a better case if it had a longer neck?
Short necks mean less length to play with bullet seating of boat tailed bullets . Less natural alignment then longer necks .
Less potential grip for any given neck tension amount like say a .001 grip or .002 etc. than a longer neck .
It's not a huge issue and standard .243 shoots fairly well anyway but you can squeeze out some extra accuracy by tightening up the neck fit by adding a slight shoulder from partial neck sizing that never gets resized ever . Body die is required and a Lee collet die with a washer over the case on the shell holder or a Redding bushing neck die adjusted so it don't size all the way down . Skim neck turn gets the neck wall thickness better and assists even bullet release and smoother operation in bushing dies . It also adds up to more concentrically seated projectiles but you have to make sure neck tension is sufficient to hold projectiles enough so that chambering from a magazine will not push them out of line . Short necks generally need slightly higher neck tensions unless you are target shooting and feeding one at a time in a push feed action .
Same applies to any short neck cartridge but precision in hand loading and dies etc. has come a long way nowadays and that helps a lot . Short necks do have one advantage in as much as they don't need as much drag to size the neck which helps reduce brass drawing and elongation , that slows down neck hardening which can adversely affect precision accuracy .
Annealing is still a good idea after 5 to 7 shots as long as you do it correctly and don't soften the case body below the shoulder .
I hear what you are saying but the size of the 243 neck will have no effect on its potential accuracy. Many case designs like the WSM are not using particularly long necks and can produce excellent accuracy. The PPC has a shorter neck than the 222 but it has completely replaced it in accuracy competition. Check out Stan Ware's 6mm BR wildcat with almost no neck.
. http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/201 ... d-wolfpup/
straightshooter wrote:Anybody for a 25-06.
Its a caliber that doesn't talked about much but is far more common than one may think.
bigrich wrote:I had also considered the 6 mm rem, which when you look at it’s ballistics and technicall specs is very impressive.
And it has the long neck that is common to 222, 30-06, ect