Pretty impressive little projectiles.

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Pretty impressive little projectiles.

Post by Die Judicii » 21 Mar 2022, 8:08 pm

The other day I finally got around to running in and sighting in the brand new .17 Super Magnum.

Two feet behind the target I had a full sheet of mild steel (not AR500) 12mm thick Plate Steel, (1.2 x 2.4 meters) which was angled downwards 45 degrees.

The first shot at eighty meters distance (wearing proper shooting glasses) was 130 mm low and 35 mm to the right.
Cleaning between each shot,, and adjusting elevation and windage,, it took just four rounds to land the fourth in the center of the 1 cm square bull.
(Using American Eagle 20gr Ballistic tipped rounds with a claimed 3,000fps)

Pretty happy with that to start with,,, I went and looked at the plate steel.
At 45 degrees I thought they would disintegrate a bit like the HMR's do,,,,,,,,, but nope.
It appeared as if the surface of the plate steel had melted on impact,,, and left a small crater nearing 5 or 6mm deep, and embedded in the middle
of each one was the remnants of the outer shell of the projectile.

The pics show what I describe reasonably well.
And I can't wait to try it out on a fox or dog,,,,,,,,,, (head shots)

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Re: Pretty impressive little projectiles.

Post by straightshooter » 22 Mar 2022, 7:33 am

It's certainly an impressive rimfire.
The claimed point blank range of 200 yards for +- 1.5 inch trajectory is also impressive although there is not much energy left at longer ranges but certainly enough for smaller game such as rabbits and hare and enough to deal with cats and foxes.
Alas that point blank range is only truly exploitable of the rifle / ammo combination is sufficiently accurate.
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Re: Pretty impressive little projectiles.

Post by in2anity » 22 Mar 2022, 3:03 pm

SELLIER & BELLOT 223REM 55GR SP 20PKT
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Re: Pretty impressive little projectiles.

Post by bladeracer » 22 Mar 2022, 5:38 pm

in2anity wrote:SELLIER & BELLOT 223REM 55GR SP 20PKT


Que?
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Re: Pretty impressive little projectiles.

Post by Die Judicii » 22 Mar 2022, 5:58 pm

bladeracer wrote:
in2anity wrote:SELLIER & BELLOT 223REM 55GR SP 20PKT


Que?


Yep,,,,,,,,,, Ditto

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Re: Pretty impressive little projectiles.

Post by in2anity » 22 Mar 2022, 8:39 pm

#Justsayin :P nah it’s a convenient cartridge the wsm - make a nice little 200m small game rifle - better reach than the hmr.
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Re: Pretty impressive little projectiles.

Post by Bills Shed » 23 Mar 2022, 6:07 am

Seems to go well. I am a bit of a reloader / projectile swaged and hate throwing away brass. I was looking at the price of ammo for the 17 WSM.
I was surprised at the difference in price between retailers but I suppose if you do not live near them you take what you can get. Even on the cheaper end, the price is not much fun. You could always Slow the 17 Hornet down a bit and get the same result and be cheaper on the wallet. This does not work for everyone of course but is an option.
This little rim fire should be great on small game and from the reports I have heard at my end seems to be doing the business without fuss.

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Re: Pretty impressive little projectiles.

Post by Bill » 23 Mar 2022, 8:50 am

the Cheap ammo cycle for 17 WSM was 3 years ago, I bought a few bulk lots :thumbsup: and paid only $13/bx of 50 for Federal 20gr which worked out a 26c a shot.
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Re: Pretty impressive little projectiles.

Post by in2anity » 23 Mar 2022, 8:55 am

Bill wrote:the Cheap ammo cycle for 17 WSM was 3 years ago, I bought a few bulk lots :thumbsup: and paid only $13/bx of 50 for Federal 20gr which worked out a 26c a shot.


At 26c/pop it suddenly makes a LOT more sense. At those prices I'd get one myself. I'm mulling with the idea of getting an HMR so I don't have to clumsily fiddle around with miniature pills - but even the current HMR prices are rarely better than 50-70c/pop, which is the same price as I reload competition-level 223 for - which can reach to 500m with good consistency. Hard justifications to make...
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Re: Pretty impressive little projectiles.

Post by Die Judicii » 23 Mar 2022, 12:13 pm

Bill wrote:the Cheap ammo cycle for 17 WSM was 3 years ago, I bought a few bulk lots :thumbsup: and paid only $13/bx of 50 for Federal 20gr which worked out a 26c a shot.


Heh,,,,, Yep.
That's exactly what I did.
I bought three major bulk lots from three different dealers when they had em out on special. (knowing that the price would only go upwards)

In fact I bought the first lot before I even had the rifle. :lol: :thumbsup:
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Re: Pretty impressive little projectiles.

Post by bladeracer » 23 Mar 2022, 1:59 pm

in2anity wrote:
Bill wrote:the Cheap ammo cycle for 17 WSM was 3 years ago, I bought a few bulk lots :thumbsup: and paid only $13/bx of 50 for Federal 20gr which worked out a 26c a shot.


At 26c/pop it suddenly makes a LOT more sense. At those prices I'd get one myself. I'm mulling with the idea of getting an HMR so I don't have to clumsily fiddle around with miniature pills - but even the current HMR prices are rarely better than 50-70c/pop, which is the same price as I reload competition-level 223 for - which can reach to 500m with good consistency. Hard justifications to make...


If you're finding WSM for under a buck apiece now you're doing very well. HMR is significantly cheaper from what I've seen, in the 60-80c bracket. Both are still crazy but the bullets are 50c apiece to buy so it's hard to find any saving if you want to play with the tiny bullets.
The only person I've had in-depth discussion over the WSM with was gaznazdiak (on this forum a while back). He adored the little beast but wind was just killing it, limiting him to 100m max, on good days. He ended up swapping it for a .223 and loading his own ammo with bullets that better handled the wind, cheaper to shoot, and more versatile.
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Re: Pretty impressive little projectiles.

Post by on_one_wheel » 23 Mar 2022, 2:51 pm

Are you seeing issues with it fowling quickly?
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Re: Pretty impressive little projectiles.

Post by in2anity » 23 Mar 2022, 3:01 pm

bladeracer wrote:If you're finding WSM for under a buck apiece now you're doing very well. HMR is significantly cheaper from what I've seen, in the 60-80c bracket. Both are still crazy but the bullets are 50c apiece to buy so it's hard to find any saving if you want to play with the tiny bullets.
The only person I've had in-depth discussion over the WSM with was gaznazdiak (on this forum a while back). He adored the little beast but wind was just killing it, limiting him to 100m max, on good days. He ended up swapping it for a .223 and loading his own ammo with bullets that better handled the wind, cheaper to shoot, and more versatile.


Our club occasionally runs a novel 3-position rimfire shoot to break up the grade shooting. It's a walkdown event - 5 shots @ 100m prone -> (walk forward) -> 5 shots @ 75m prone, 5 shots @ 75m sitting -> (walk forward) -> 5 shots @ 50m prone, 5 shots @ 50m sitting, 5 shots @ 50m standing-offhand. So a total of 30 rounds required for the match, with a 150.30 possible on a miniaturized figure 13 target with rings (V,5,4,3,2). No rests allowed, service rifle slings permitted.

With a tricky Southerly blowing (say fishy 25km/h) which is very common in the winter months, I surmise the humble 22lr cannot group into better than 3-4" at 100m. Yet the comp does not stipulate WHICH rimfire we can use. In theory you could use the HMR or WSM. Hence the allure for me to get something with a bit more horsepower than the 22lr... I reckon one of the aforementioned calibers could close to halve the groups, particularly gaining ground in the decimals area.

minicore.jpg
example 3-position rimfire target
minicore.jpg (475.01 KiB) Viewed 4068 times


Long story short, I can see an advantage in running the WSM or HMR for this event - they should buck the wind better than the 22lr shooting sv ammo :D
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Re: Pretty impressive little projectiles.

Post by bladeracer » 23 Mar 2022, 3:27 pm

in2anity wrote:Our club occasionally runs a novel 3-position rimfire shoot to break up the grade shooting. It's a walkdown event - 5 shots @ 100m prone -> (walk forward) -> 5 shots @ 75m prone, 5 shots @ 75m sitting -> (walk forward) -> 5 shots @ 50m prone, 5 shots @ 50m sitting, 5 shots @ 50m standing-offhand. So a total of 30 rounds required for the match, with a 150.30 possible on a miniaturized figure 13 target with rings (V,5,4,3,2). No rests allowed, service rifle slings permitted.

With a tricky Southerly blowing (say fishy 25km/h) which is very common in the winter months, I surmise the humble 22lr cannot group into better than 3-4" at 100m. Yet the comp does not stipulate WHICH rimfire we can use. In theory you could use the HMR or WSM. Hence the allure for me to get something with a bit more horsepower than the 22lr... I reckon one of the aforementioned calibers could close to halve the groups, particularly gaining ground in the decimals area.

minicore.jpg


Long story short, I can see an advantage in running the WSM or HMR for this event - they should buck the wind better than the 22lr shooting match ammo :D


My daily practice (not always daily) is 100-150rds on steel silhouettes, but all offhand with the lever-action. I'll usually start at 100m 15rds on the ram, walk to 75m and put 15rds on the the turkey, walk up to 50m, put 15rds on the pig, then 40m and put 15rds on the chicken. Then I'll walk back to 75m and put another 15rds on the turkey, back up to 40m for another 15 on the chicken as these two are the toughest, then go forward to photograph and paint the targets for the next day. Then I'll back up to 50m and drop 10rds on either the pig or onto the 130mm gongs just to finish off. If I'm doing 150rds I'll put two tubes on the ram and pig and three on the turkey and chicken. I use 15rd speedloaders cut from transparent plastic hose so reloading is extremely quick.

I did take the JW25A out for a lark the other day, scoped. Shot the steels at various distances and positions just for random fun.

Before my eyes started playing up, on a good day I could hold 15rds at 100m offhand in about 125mm, nowadays I'm hitting about 10 out of 15rds on the ram at 100m, so it's probably more like 200mm (the pig I can usually drop 15 for 15 at 50m still - chicken and turkey are usually 8/15). Sighting requires getting a cheekweld where I think I can see the front sight against the sky, then coming down onto the target. Once I'm on the steel I'm pretty much just using cheekweld and rear sight as I don't hold position between shots, really can't make out the front sight to any degree at the moment on any of my shorter rifles. The full-length M96 is still okay. Still practicing shooting left handed but it's slow progress :-)

Scaling off the screen that looks to be a 4" V-ring and an 8" 5-ring?
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Re: Pretty impressive little projectiles.

Post by Blr243 » 23 Mar 2022, 3:34 pm

Big Thumbs up for your practice efforts blade , we don’t get better at things by not doing it
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Re: Pretty impressive little projectiles.

Post by bladeracer » 23 Mar 2022, 3:45 pm

Blr243 wrote:Big Thumbs up for your practice efforts blade , we don’t get better at things by not doing it


I just love shooting so any time I find a few minutes spare I grab a rifle and a pocket full of ammo and walk up the paddock.
The trick is to keep the variety so I don't get bored :-)
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Re: Pretty impressive little projectiles.

Post by Die Judicii » 23 Mar 2022, 8:03 pm

on_one_wheel wrote:Are you seeing issues with it fowling quickly?



These are dry patches,,,, one patch per shot.
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Re: Pretty impressive little projectiles.

Post by in2anity » 24 Mar 2022, 8:09 am

bladeracer wrote:Before my eyes started playing up, on a good day I could hold 15rds at 100m offhand in about 125mm, nowadays I'm hitting about 10 out of 15rds on the ram at 100m, so it's probably more like 200mm (the pig I can usually drop 15 for 15 at 50m still - chicken and turkey are usually 8/15)


Over open sights, under all wind conditions, if you can truly center-group all you shots under 20cm at 100m (I mean all of them, not just 19/20) you're doing well, and will be toward the top. An "above average" service rifler will pull all their shots south of 8moa. A great service rifler will put all south of 6moa. The very best are in the 4moa region (not me! :lol: )

bladeracer wrote:Scaling off the screen that looks to be a 4" V-ring and an 8" 5-ring?


Yeah I reckon that's a good guess Blade - I dont't know the exact scale of those "minicore" targets.. Almost certainly those 4s were from the offhand leg - offhand is easily my weakest position. Still working on that - but I like a low profile gun south of 4kg for offhand. Half the battle is the forend catching the wind like a sail on the blustery days.
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Re: Pretty impressive little projectiles.

Post by bladeracer » 24 Mar 2022, 8:44 am

Yes, the 20cm group isn't a problem, even with lever-action tech. Placing that group consistently on the target is a bigger issue. Perhaps I should include more circular "bull" type practice as sight pictures on irregular shapes moves the group around. When I'm shooting the groups I'm still shooting at silhouettes, but paper cutouts on MDF so I'm seeing the whole group including the misses. My groups move around depending on the shape bias and direction of the silhouettes, which I'm sure is the same for everybody.

I'll try to shoot something similar to that this arvo with the M96 if I get a moment.

My offhand was pretty decent as a kid, then I stopped doing it and started relying on the sling. As an old fella getting back into it I was shocked by how poorly I was shooting offhand, so I have put many tens of thousands of rounds down range offhand, unsupported, open sights, at various distances, and in adverse weather conditions over the past seven years. I'm nowhere near Paul Harrell's abilities, but I'm a lot better than I was and have confidently taken offhand .22LR shots at foxes to 50m in the right circumstances.

in2anity wrote:
bladeracer wrote:Before my eyes started playing up, on a good day I could hold 15rds at 100m offhand in about 125mm, nowadays I'm hitting about 10 out of 15rds on the ram at 100m, so it's probably more like 200mm (the pig I can usually drop 15 for 15 at 50m still - chicken and turkey are usually 8/15)


Over open sights, under all wind conditions, if you can truly center-group all you shots under 20cm at 100m (I mean all of them, not just 19/20) you're doing well, and will be toward the top. An "above average" service rifler will pull all their shots south of 8moa. A great service rifler will put all south of 6moa. The very best are in the 4moa region (not me! :lol: )

bladeracer wrote:Scaling off the screen that looks to be a 4" V-ring and an 8" 5-ring?


Yeah I reckon that's a good guess Blade - I dont't know the exact scale of those "minicore" targets.. Almost certainly those 4s were from the offhand leg - offhand is easily my weakest position. Still working on that - but I like a low profile gun south of 4kg for offhand. Half the battle is the forend catching the wind like a sail on the blustery days.
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