Barnes TSX grooves and base

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Barnes TSX grooves and base

Post by meek » 07 May 2014, 11:01 am

G'day,

Looking at the Barnes TSX bullets at the moment and wonder about this.

With the 2-3 bullet cannelures and the flat base, they're not the 'usual' bullet design features people usual comment on when talking about what makes a 'good' bullet.

No boat tail, no ballistic tip etc. I know those aren't the be all and end all, but popular obviously.

Just thinking out loud here, don't really know what I'm asking :lol:

Just interested in the bullet if anyone has info :)
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Re: Barnes TSX grooves and base

Post by Westy » 07 May 2014, 6:58 pm

When in doubt buy some and shoot them!!!!!
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Re: Barnes TSX grooves and base

Post by SendIt » 07 May 2014, 7:04 pm

I wouldn't disagree with any particular point, except...

Purpose is everything. The TSX is designed for hunting, period.

You don't need hollow points and boat tails to take game at 1,000 yards. You need it to hit hard retain it's weight at practical distances.

That's where the TSX excels.
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Re: Barnes TSX grooves and base

Post by Chronos » 07 May 2014, 7:29 pm

FFP!

fit for purpose, designed to kill at hunting ranges, thats it

"The TSX was introduced in 2003 and has become Barnes’ most popular hunting bullet. The TSX has gained worldwide recognition as one of the deadliest, most dependable bullets you can buy. Try these all-copper bullets and realize the added benefits of improved accuracy, reduced barrel fouling and increased velocity."

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Re: Barnes TSX grooves and base

Post by yoshie » 07 May 2014, 9:17 pm

I like them, I remember reading the extra grooves were to reduce friction as the bullet works different to normal bullets when it's fired down a barrel. Also you can't use equivalent load data from normal bullets, Barnes has all the data for their bullets available on their site free.
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Re: Barnes TSX grooves and base

Post by BBJ » 08 May 2014, 11:03 am

They're not a match bullet so things like boat tails and hollow points are secondary.

When you've got a target with a 10" critical hit zone and up to a foot bone and muscle between the skin and vitals you don't need 1/4 MOA accuracy.

Lots of mass retention, lots of energy transfer. That's what the TSX are about. Accuracy isn't critical, they just need "enough"
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Re: Barnes TSX grooves and base

Post by meek » 08 May 2014, 11:06 am

Hi guys,

Thanks for the replies. I get that they're not match bullets and all the rest.

Just thinking out load and wondering where the balance lies on these things.

Everything understood about the hollow points.

Reduced friction with the additional ridges isn't something I thought of so there you go.

Still wondering about the flat base though? Couldn't they keep everything else the same but go with a boat tail for less drag?
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Re: Barnes TSX grooves and base

Post by Blackened » 08 May 2014, 12:11 pm

As shorter ranges (e.g. hunting ranges) flat base bullets are often actually superior to boat tails.

The flat base means more bearing surface in the barrel which lends itself to accuracy at shorter ranges.

Look at any competition shooting in the 100m - 300m range and I'm sure you'll find many guys shooting flat base bullet.
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Re: Barnes TSX grooves and base

Post by Lorgar » 08 May 2014, 12:11 pm

Winding it back for a second about the boat tails...

(lots of math incoming...)

It's important to understand that ballistic coefficient is not a measure of accuracy.

BC is strictly a measure of the bullets ability to overcome resistance and negative acceleration.

This directly effects the distance a bullet will travel and the energy it will retain over distance, but not accuracy. Depending on the situation this can be critical to performance, can be one of several desirable factors, or can be largely irrelevant.

Metallic silhouette shooting is an example where BC can be critical. In metallic silhouette you need X amount of energy to knock over a target at 500m.

Say you have these two loads...

1) 150gr bullet - 2900 fps muzzle velocity - .300 BC
2) 150gr bullet - 2900 fps muzzle velocity - .350 BC

As the bullets are in flight they're slowing down and losing energy at different rates.

At 500 metres the .300 BC bullet is moving at 1,550 fps and carrying 800 ft-lbs energy.
At 500 metres the .350 BC bullet is moving at 1,710 fps and carrying 970 ft-lbs of energy.

Say you need 950 ft-lbs to knock over your silhouette at 500m, this is impossible with the .300 BC bullet. It simply can't retain enough energy to knock the target over. In this instance the higher BC (more specifically, the additional energy it retains) is critical as you can't knock over the target without it.

I'll come back to this in a second but the .300 BC load has 17% less energy and 9% less velocity at 500m than the .350 BC load.

At 100m it's a different story.

At 100m the .300 BC bullet is moving at 2,600 fps and carrying 2,250 ft-lbs energy.
At 100m the .350 BC bullet is moving at 2,640 fps and carrying 2,320 ft-lbs energy.

At 100m the .300 BC bullet only has 3% less energy and .5 % less velocity.

For the purposes of hunting, this reduction in energy and velocity at 100m is completely insignificant. Things like initial penetration, bullet expansion, weight retention etc. all become the critical factors. Enter the Barnes TSX...

You mentioned where the balance lies in this...

Where BC does influence accuracy, but not directly correlate with it like it does for velocity and energy retention is flight time.

Because a higher BC bullet moves faster and is in the air for less time, there is less time for it to be effected by wind and other outside influences.

At 1,500 metres the .300 BC bullet above would have a flight time of about 3.8 seconds.

At 1,500 metres the same load with a .500 BC would have a flight time of about 2.8 seconds.

1 second less to be affected by wind, up-drafts etc.

As you move towards that end of the scale that's when BC itself because more desirable, if not critical.

Then, if you shot the above .300 and .500 BC loads in a weatherless vacuum, BC would become irrelevant again :lol:

(make sense? :lol:)
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Re: Barnes TSX grooves and base

Post by Chronos » 08 May 2014, 12:24 pm

So Lorgar, what you're saying is I'm wasting my time shooting my Berger 7mm 180 gr hydrids (BC .674) at 50m. :lol:

Well said mate, all the marketing stuff like BC that's used to sell match bullets goes out the window when you're hunting at normal ranges.

A high BC bullet will also give you less wind drift at a given distance but that's immeasurable at ranges under 200m

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Re: Barnes TSX grooves and base

Post by Aster » 08 May 2014, 1:13 pm

Chronos wrote:So Lorgar, what you're saying is I'm wasting my time shooting my Berger 7mm 180 gr hydrids (BC .674) at 50m. :lol:


I dunno,

Do you need that extra 0.00001 MOA at 50m? :lol:
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Re: Barnes TSX grooves and base

Post by Chronos » 08 May 2014, 1:25 pm

:| need all the help I can get :(

;)

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Re: Barnes TSX grooves and base

Post by meek » 08 May 2014, 1:40 pm

Thanks for the massive response, Lorgar.

Think I've got my head around all that :lol:
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Re: Barnes TSX grooves and base

Post by creet » 08 May 2014, 1:41 pm

Brain...crumbling...

:oops: :lol: :D
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Re: Barnes TSX grooves and base

Post by Wes » 09 May 2014, 3:24 pm

Lorgar wrote:Then, if you shot the above .300 and .500 BC loads in a weatherless vacuum, BC would become irrelevant again :lol:


I'll be sure to remember that next time the situation comes up :P
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Re: Barnes TSX grooves and base

Post by Lorgar » 11 May 2014, 8:31 am

Useful information...

It happens to me all the time...
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