Time to stockup on ammo guys

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Re: Time to stockup on ammo guys

Post by bladeracer » 04 Mar 2023, 7:13 pm

Lazarus wrote:Let's make it personal Blade.

You say the deaths of untold thousands, or millions, is worth it for the impetus towards scientific development.

Are you willing to sacrifice yourself, or Rose, to this advancement, or is it just random strangers you're happy to sacrifice?


If there's a war here I have no doubt that many of us will indeed be "sacrificed" to it, just as so many thousands of people in Eastern Europe have been devoured by the war there. None of us is immune to that, just the same as an earthquake, tsunami, tornado, etc. So, no, I don't exclude myself from it at all. Any of us can be taken from our loved ones at any time, even without wars. I've found myself in hospital after unplanned accidents and illnesses enough times to know that we're all temporary here.
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Re: Time to stockup on ammo guys

Post by bladeracer » 04 Mar 2023, 7:19 pm

Lazarus wrote:You should be a politician Blade, you evade questions so well.

I ask you again, are you willing for you or your family to be the ones to suffer and die on this alter of military development, or is it just strangers you'll sacrifice for the development of a better rifle or better wound dressing?


What did I evade?

The "upsides" as you call them come from the technology that is rapidly progressed, they don't come to us immediately, they evolve over time based on what was learned. Nobody sees the advancements ahead of time that result years after a war. Nobody in the 1870's figured just another few wars and we'd be flying through the skies and travelling to other planets.

None of us voluntarily sacrifices ourselves to these advancements, regardless of whether it comes via warfare or natural/manmade disaster. It is basically the potential death toll that drives the need for advancements, otherwise wars would still be fought with sticks and stones.
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Re: Time to stockup on ammo guys

Post by on_one_wheel » 04 Mar 2023, 7:47 pm

I reckon the CCP is sitting back watching the West depleting stockpiles of weapons and its wealth while they manipulate everything they can in their favour.
They'll be a carefully calculated tipping point at which the CCP will strike out against the West.

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Re: Time to stockup on ammo guys

Post by Lazarus » 04 Mar 2023, 7:52 pm

Still avoiding the question.

Would you, or would you not sacrifice yourself, or your family to these advances you espouse?

It's a smple yes or no question.

I totally understand what you're sayng, and yes, mass suffering and destruction is a driver of progress, but if the cost of that progress was Rose being raped and murdered by foreign soldiers, would you still see it as a positive advancement of technological progress?

One of my favourite people died last week as a direct result of Putin's war and you talk as though those who die are just numbers in a sociological equation.

It's very easy from the safety of Australia to pontificate on warfare as a driver of development, but when someone you know, someone about whom you care, dies as a direct result of warfare, it sheds a different light on the subject.
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Re: Time to stockup on ammo guys

Post by rc42 » 04 Mar 2023, 8:05 pm

China is a net importer of just about everything and funds that with exports of items which are largely built from assembled imported parts. Most significantly, fuel and food imports are critical and Russia can only supply a fraction of their needs, China is reliant on the hundreds of large ships per day that move cargo in and out.

Their navy was basically built to invade Taiwan and has minimal ability to project power much further so a war with the west would be catastrophic for them, and they know it. They won't even openly support Russia's invasion of Ukraine for fear of the impact of even a fraction of the sanctions imposed on Russia. All China has to attack with at long distance is a couple of hundred nukes and the west has a couple of thousand pointing back, that's not going to happen.

As for stockpiles, the west is 'selling' older and largely obsolete munitions to Ukraine and is ramping up production to fill the gaps that are appearing,
War has always been very profitable for those that make weapons.
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Re: Time to stockup on ammo guys

Post by bladeracer » 04 Mar 2023, 8:09 pm

Lazarus wrote:Still avoiding the question.

Would you, or would you not sacrifice yourself, or your family to these advances you espouse?

It's a simple yes or no question.

I totally understand what you're saying, and yes, mass suffering and destruction is a driver of progress, but if the cost of that progress was Rose being raped and murdered by foreign soldiers, would you still see it as a positive advancement of technological progress?

One of my favourite people died last week as a direct result of Putin's war and you talk as though those who die are just numbers in a sociological equation.

It's very easy from the safety of Australia to pontificate on warfare as a driver of development, but when someone you know, someone about whom you care, dies as a direct result of warfare, it sheds a different light on the subject.


The question is nothing to do with the discussion. You are asking if I will voluntarily sacrifice my own life and the lives of my family to create a war in the hope that some as yet unknown technology results from it? The question is nonsensical and is not worthy of a response.

You may read my words that way but that is not what I'm saying at all. I have lost people all through my life to illnesses and accidents, suddenly and excruciatingly slowly. Would I sacrifice myself if I knew that doing so might save other people's lives, possibly. Would I sacrifice the life of somebody else rather than myself, I would hope not. Nobody can truly answer these questions until they're standing in that position. You are claiming that I _want_ to see wars, that I'll happily _start_ wars, just to push our evolution along, but you have created that suggestion yourself, I never suggested anything of the sort.

A member here has recently started riding motorcycles and just last week was already confronted with the loss of somebody local to him that was killed in a motorcycle accident, it's something you have to get accustomed to if you're going to ride bikes. A friend in the US almost lost his nephew two weeks ago in a nasty car-v-bike crash and he was talking about selling his own bike. People die of illness and disease, and are killed in horrific ways every day - far more than die in wars. Over 170,000 Australians died in 2021 for example, if you haven't lost somebody close to you recently I think you can consider yourself very lucky indeed.
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Re: Time to stockup on ammo guys

Post by Oldbloke » 06 Mar 2023, 5:40 pm

Cleavers have cheap bullets 243CAL, 87GR, POLYMER TIPPED PROJECTILES ATM

https://www.cleaverfirearms.com/Product ... rch=jcjk66
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