Short Range Sambar Cartridge

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Short Range Sambar Cartridge

Post by adam.g » 06 May 2023, 12:39 pm

Hello all,

I am thinking of putting together a rifle for short range pest control including upto Sambar.
Maximum range would be 150m.
Shooting will be done in low light or under torch at known ranges on well known properties.
The goal is to reduce the chance of bullets leaving the property and noise reduction is always wonderful.

I almost feel like I want a bolt action 3030, But I would be interested to hear what you guys/gals have to say.

Ta
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Re: Short Range Sambar Cartridge

Post by JohnV » 07 May 2023, 8:33 pm

7mm-08 with a 130 to 140 grain bullet . Legal for Sambar in Victoria.
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Re: Short Range Sambar Cartridge

Post by bladeracer » 07 May 2023, 9:03 pm

adam.g wrote:Hello all,

I am thinking of putting together a rifle for short range pest control including upto Sambar.
Maximum range would be 150m.
Shooting will be done in low light or under torch at known ranges on well known properties.
The goal is to reduce the chance of bullets leaving the property and noise reduction is always wonderful.

I almost feel like I want a bolt action 3030, But I would be interested to hear what you guys/gals have to say.

Ta


If it's on private property you probably don't need to worry about carrying weight?
7mm-08 would be my choice, but a lever-action in .30-30, .308, .30-06 would let you use the Sub-X 190gn bullet which is designed to work at subsonic velocities. 150m is a stretch I think for subsonic loads.

Only way to reduce the likelihood of bullets leaving the property is to shoot toward known backstops, so velocity is irrelevant. Even a subsonic .308 will probably travel past 1600m if you're pointing it above the horizon.
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Re: Short Range Sambar Cartridge

Post by hunting99 » 07 May 2023, 9:09 pm

Do you reload? Or are you going to be buying factory rounds
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Re: Short Range Sambar Cartridge

Post by deye243 » 07 May 2023, 11:27 pm

308
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Re: Short Range Sambar Cartridge

Post by MtnMan » 08 May 2023, 6:08 am

35 Whelan.

never seen or shot one but for some reason it appeals to me.
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Re: Short Range Sambar Cartridge

Post by bigpete » 08 May 2023, 8:00 am

MtnMan wrote:35 Whelan.

never seen or shot one but for some reason it appeals to me.


I do own and shoot one,its a fantastic cartridge,mild recoil and hits hard.
But I would still be exceptionally worried about the projectile leaving the property.
It kinda sounds like the OP is going to be shooting mainly at night. I wonder if a bolt action 44 mag might have some merit ?
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Re: Short Range Sambar Cartridge

Post by straightshooter » 08 May 2023, 8:41 am

The original poster's problem can be solved if he always shoots from higher ground to lower ground and at an angle such that there will never be ricochets generally considered to be greater than 5 degrees.
An alternative is building a well located shooting pulpit but that would restrict to only one property due the impracticality of moving it.
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Re: Short Range Sambar Cartridge

Post by animalpest » 08 May 2023, 9:41 am

Adam.g - you said pest control up to Sambar.
What other pests are you referring to?

The can be a substantial difference in ideal cartridge sizes needed between that needed for different pests. But having said that, you may be limited to what is legal for Sambar.
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Re: Short Range Sambar Cartridge

Post by Oldbloke » 08 May 2023, 10:49 am

animalpest wrote:Adam.g - you said pest control up to Sambar.
What other pests are you referring to?

The can be a substantial difference in ideal cartridge sizes needed between that needed for different pests. But having said that, you may be limited to what is legal for Sambar.


And more than 1 property in Victoria.

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Re: Short Range Sambar Cartridge

Post by bigrich » 08 May 2023, 7:56 pm

adam.g wrote:Hello all,

I am thinking of putting together a rifle for short range pest control including upto Sambar.
Maximum range would be 150m.
Shooting will be done in low light or under torch at known ranges on well known properties.
The goal is to reduce the chance of bullets leaving the property and noise reduction is always wonderful.

I almost feel like I want a bolt action 3030, But I would be interested to hear what you guys/gals have to say.

Ta


do you reload ?
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Re: Short Range Sambar Cartridge

Post by bigrich » 08 May 2023, 8:01 pm

bigpete wrote:
MtnMan wrote:35 Whelan.

never seen or shot one but for some reason it appeals to me.


I do own and shoot one,its a fantastic cartridge,mild recoil and hits hard.
But I would still be exceptionally worried about the projectile leaving the property.
It kinda sounds like the OP is going to be shooting mainly at night. I wonder if a bolt action 44 mag might have some merit ?


if he wants to lessen the chance of the bullet leaving the property , a 44mag sounds good . rossi 92 with a red dot :unknown:
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Re: Short Range Sambar Cartridge

Post by Oldbloke » 08 May 2023, 9:23 pm

I think 250yards is about the max range for a 308 on sambar. A 308 pushing a 150gr bullet 2700fps has about 1500 fpe @ 250yards.

So you need to ask your self , what energy does a particular cartridge have at that range? Is it 1500 fpe?

Not just pluck cartridges out of the air.

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Re: Short Range Sambar Cartridge

Post by mchughcb » 08 May 2023, 10:46 pm

straightshooter wrote:The original poster's problem can be solved if he always shoots from higher ground to lower ground and at an angle such that there will never be ricochets generally considered to be greater than 5 degrees.
An alternative is building a well located shooting pulpit but that would restrict to only one property due the impracticality of moving it.


I have built all over the place. 100% right you are always shooting down. Makes it far safer. Issue is cost and skill to build them.
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Re: Short Range Sambar Cartridge

Post by mchughcb » 08 May 2023, 10:50 pm

adam.g wrote:Hello all,

I am thinking of putting together a rifle for short range pest control including upto Sambar.
Maximum range would be 150m.
Shooting will be done in low light or under torch at known ranges on well known properties.
The goal is to reduce the chance of bullets leaving the property and noise reduction is always wonderful.

I almost feel like I want a bolt action 3030, But I would be interested to hear what you guys/gals have to say.

Ta


Reload and use a 308 or 3006 using 220 BT energetic at 1000fps. I've shot sambar with this load. 3 to be exact. They died. Not very loud but distances were 100m or less.
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Re: Short Range Sambar Cartridge

Post by bigrich » 09 May 2023, 4:22 am

mchughcb wrote:
adam.g wrote:Hello all,

I am thinking of putting together a rifle for short range pest control including upto Sambar.
Maximum range would be 150m.
Shooting will be done in low light or under torch at known ranges on well known properties.
The goal is to reduce the chance of bullets leaving the property and noise reduction is always wonderful.

I almost feel like I want a bolt action 3030, But I would be interested to hear what you guys/gals have to say.

Ta


Reload and use a 308 or 3006 using 220 BT energetic at 1000fps. I've shot sambar with this load. 3 to be exact. They died. Not very loud but distances were 100m or less.


that's the sort of thing i was originally thinking . a 30-06 with a 220gn woodleigh round nose would be perfect too. if you can find one . then big pete had to mention 44mag . i've had a facination for 44 lately :D
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Re: Short Range Sambar Cartridge

Post by JohnV » 09 May 2023, 3:09 pm

Don't consider 44 magnum it's unreliable at penetrating hard bone . 7mm-08 or 308 much better choice on large deer . I once loaded for 44 magnum and 44-40 and eventually gave them both away .
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Re: Short Range Sambar Cartridge

Post by Billo » 09 May 2023, 3:57 pm

500 S&W would do the job :lol: ;)
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Re: Short Range Sambar Cartridge

Post by bigpete » 09 May 2023, 4:43 pm

JohnV wrote:Don't consider 44 magnum it's unreliable at penetrating hard bone . 7mm-08 or 308 much better choice on large deer . I once loaded for 44 magnum and 44-40 and eventually gave them both away .


Seriously ?
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Re: Short Range Sambar Cartridge

Post by deye243 » 09 May 2023, 4:48 pm

Billo wrote:500 S&W would do the job :lol: ;)

So would a 460 s&w for that matter.
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Re: Short Range Sambar Cartridge

Post by SCJ429 » 09 May 2023, 7:50 pm

[quote="Oldbloke"]I think 250yards is about the max range for a 308 on sambar. A 308 pushing a 150gr bullet 2700fps has about 1500 fpe @ 250yards.

So you need to ask your self , what energy does a particular cartridge have at that range? Is it 1500 fpe?

Not just pluck cartridges out of the air.
/quote]
Wow, a 250 metre shot on a Sambar. I have never seen one at that distance, usually at 50 metres and that is a glimpse of the rear end as they run off. Perhaps that is more of a reflection on my poor stalking skills. :unknown:
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Re: Short Range Sambar Cartridge

Post by Oldbloke » 09 May 2023, 8:11 pm

SCJ429 wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:I think 250yards is about the max range for a 308 on sambar. A 308 pushing a 150gr bullet 2700fps has about 1500 fpe @ 250yards.

So you need to ask your self , what energy does a particular cartridge have at that range? Is it 1500 fpe?

Not just pluck cartridges out of the air.
/quote]
Wow, a 250 metre shot on a Sambar. I have never seen one at that distance, usually at 50 metres and that is a glimpse of the rear end as they run off. Perhaps that is more of a reflection on my poor stalking skills. :unknown:


I wasn't saying that those distances are common. In fact I'd suggest they are rare.
What I was trying to say is that, that is probably the (accepted) maximum practical range with a 308 that has the energy needed for reliable, humane kills. (1500fpe)

So perhaps 1500fpe should be considered the minimum energy for reliable kills for sambar. Obviously there are also a lot of other factors.
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Re: Short Range Sambar Cartridge

Post by animalpest » 09 May 2023, 9:18 pm

JohnV wrote:Don't consider 44 magnum it's unreliable at penetrating hard bone . 7mm-08 or 308 much better choice on large deer . I once loaded for 44 magnum and 44-40 and eventually gave them both away .


Nah, I have shot big NT boars and buffaloes with a .44 mag. No problems
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Re: Short Range Sambar Cartridge

Post by Peterwho » 09 May 2023, 9:21 pm

I just did the ADA Deer Hunting Course in Neerim East in Victoria over the weekend. Combined expertise of the presenters close to 200 years. Some of the key learnings include what quite short ranges Sambar are shot at, generally speaking. 100 meters is a long shot. A couple really experienced hunters who hunt with hounds use 45-70s lever actions with red dot scopes.

BTW I can highly recommend the course, although I think it only runs once a year.
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Re: Short Range Sambar Cartridge

Post by womble » 10 May 2023, 6:08 am

7.62x39 ..?
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Re: Short Range Sambar Cartridge

Post by mchughcb » 10 May 2023, 8:36 am

Peterwho wrote:I just did the ADA Deer Hunting Course in Neerim East in Victoria over the weekend. Combined expertise of the presenters close to 200 years. Some of the key learnings include what quite short ranges Sambar are shot at, generally speaking. 100 meters is a long shot. A couple really experienced hunters who hunt with hounds use 45-70s lever actions with red dot scopes.

BTW I can highly recommend the course, although I think it only runs once a year.


Hound hunting is different to stalking. Requirements are different.
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Re: Short Range Sambar Cartridge

Post by bigrich » 10 May 2023, 3:01 pm

animalpest wrote:
JohnV wrote:Don't consider 44 magnum it's unreliable at penetrating hard bone . 7mm-08 or 308 much better choice on large deer . I once loaded for 44 magnum and 44-40 and eventually gave them both away .


Nah, I have shot big NT boars and buffaloes with a .44 mag. No problems


can you elaborate on what rifle, and it's accuracy and reliability please :thumbsup:
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Re: Short Range Sambar Cartridge

Post by animalpest » 10 May 2023, 7:01 pm

Bigrich - one 44 mag was a Ruger Deerstalker, ie the semi auto. Highly reliable and shot many thousands of rounds through it. Others have been Marlin and never had an issue with them over 30+ years.

Everything I have shot with them has died quickly. Pigs, deer, goats, buffalo etc
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Re: Short Range Sambar Cartridge

Post by adam.g » 10 May 2023, 8:12 pm

Thanks all for your replies.
I will be reading through this over the week and will post a response on the weekend.
Quick response for now.
1.
I don't reload but will consider it for now
2.
A lot of low light shooting
3.
I have a 308 but would like a cartridge that is more specific. With a shorter action so I can make a shorter rifle with shorter barrel
4.
I'm thinking fox to Sambar. A rather utilitarian go rifle for given ranges. May require different loads
5.
We always rely on knowing our ground and backdrops. But I would like to minimise a bullet being thrown a wide distance by unexpected rocks or whatever.

Thanks again for the replies. I'm looking for purpose, then cartridge/bullets, then rifle stock accessorie combo.

I have a cousin who is working on his own solution to the problem.

I'm at the research stage with no need for hurry.

Thanks again, I will get back to you all and thanks again.
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Re: Short Range Sambar Cartridge

Post by Peterwho » 10 May 2023, 10:50 pm

It would be worthwhile being familiar GMA regulations if you aren’t already. Not all apply to private property but some do, in particular, transporting guns and spotlights.
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