6.5 Grendel using 7.62x39

[Cactus]

Hello guys , I am new to this site . I was wondering if anyone is loading for the 6.5 Grendel using 7.63 x 39 cases .

As most shooters I don’t really need another rifle “ but “ I like these mid size cartridges . I mainly use a 300 BO and 110 gr projectiles for pig hunting using a motor bike to get around . I have found this round and the short barreled 16 inch ruger a little gem . Have shot a few hundred pigs with this rifle /cartridge combo and appreciate the reduced recoil , noise reduction and point-ability ,coming from a heavy Remington 7600 in .308

The Grendel I would be using it for the same application as above . The only thing that seems to be holding me back is the availability of used 7.62x39 cases / and the reduced case capacity that it brings ( will most probably loose most off my brass in the bush hence not wanting Grendel brass ) and ideally like a 18 inch barrel.

So the Question I would like to know is , what kind of velocity would I expect from a new case with a fire form load out off a 18 inch barrel and a 95/100 gr 6.5 projectile?
In my BO using 110gr projectiles and win 296 I am getting 2360 fps and with 2205 getting about 100 fps slower . Will I get a significant increase in velocity with the Grendel ?

300 BO I will run out of powder in a year , and no outlook for powders in the short term . Was thinking of shortening the 7600 down to 18 -16 inches and mild loads but may be a bit of a blaster . Hence thoughts of the Grendel.

Thanks for reading and appreciate the feed back

[bladeracer]

Hello guys , I am new to this site . I was wondering if anyone is loading for the 6.5 Grendel using 7.63 x 39 cases .

As most shooters I don’t really need another rifle “ but “ I like these mid size cartridges . I mainly use a 300 BO and 110 gr projectiles for pig hunting using a motor bike to get around . I have found this round and the short barreled 16 inch ruger a little gem . Have shot a few hundred pigs with this rifle /cartridge combo and appreciate the reduced recoil , noise reduction and point-ability ,coming from a heavy Remington 7600 in .308

The Grendel I would be using it for the same application as above . The only thing that seems to be holding me back is the availability of used 7.62x39 cases / and the reduced case capacity that it brings ( will most probably loose most off my brass in the bush hence not wanting Grendel brass ) and ideally like a 18 inch barrel.

So the Question I would like to know is , what kind of velocity would I expect from a new case with a fire form load out off a 18 inch barrel and a 95/100 gr 6.5 projectile?
In my BO using 110gr projectiles and win 296 I am getting 2360 fps and with 2205 getting about 100 fps slower . Will I get a significant increase in velocity with the Grendel ?

300 BO I will run out of powder in a year , and no outlook for powders in the short term . Was thinking of shortening the 7600 down to 18 -16 inches and mild loads but may be a bit of a blaster . Hence thoughts of the Grendel.

Thanks for reading and appreciate the feed back

What powder are you going to use in the Grendel that you can't use in the BLK? I would use AR2206H in both chamberings. If I needed to make more velocity I'd try AR2207.

[Cactus]

For the 300 I use 110 gr projectiles. Any thing over that , even 130 gr are a little heavy and don’t give that little bit of hydrostatic shock. The only powders with the lighter projectiles are not available, win 296 , 2205 , little gun , 300 mp . Plenty of powders available with no availability.
Hence the question , Grendel is a nice option, as the gun is available, ruger but if I shorten the barrel and use x39 brass I may not achieve the velocity.

[bladeracer]

For the 300 I use 110 gr projectiles. Any thing over that , even 130 gr are a little heavy and don’t give that little bit of hydrostatic shock. The only powders with the lighter projectiles are not available, win 296 , 2205 , little gun , 300 mp . Plenty of powders available with no availability.
Hence the question , Grendel is a nice option, as the gun is available, ruger but if I shorten the barrel and use x39 brass I may not achieve the velocity.

When you say even 130gn bullets don't get you any hydrostatic shock what distance are you engaging targets at? The BLK is also effective with subsonic loads and appropriate bullets.

What do you mean they're the only powders? You can use a lot of different powders, though some will be less than optimal. As I said, try AR2206H to start with. If that is too slow to get you the velocity you're chasing then try AR2207. AR2208 may work okay as well but that's getting pretty slow. If you need faster powder I'd be pulling it from shotshells. I think the Grendel action is usually pretty short, limiting you to the lighter bullets - if it's in a standard short action that will open up your choices a bit, as well as giving you more case capacity for powder. If you look at ADI's data for the Grendel you'll see they're all seated to under the .223 length of 2.260", in a short action you'll be able to seat the bullets significantly longer which will allow you to run more powder. But if the magazine is short then you may not be able to feed longer rounds.

[Cactus]

Thanks for the reply bladechaser re mag length on Grendel something to think about , would be using 95 gr to 100 gr max in it .

As for the blackout , do you use shotgun powder in your blackout if you have I would love to try it as I have some blue dot and some long shot powder.
2206 h and 2207 are slower powders than 2205 so you cant generate enough speed .
I have shot enough pigs with the blackout to know that getting the projectile over 2100 fps on impact is better than under for a faster knockdown , hence 130 gr are just a little to heavy to achieve that . They were super when I used them in my .308 but the small case of the 300 blk is a handycap but it’s compactness and handling make up for lack of power .

[Wyliecoyote]

The two optimal powders from ADI for the Grendel are 8208 and Benchmark 2. 8208 is hard to get lately but both Benchmarks are readily available.

[Cactus]

Thanks for the reply bladechaser re mag length on Grendel something to think about , would be using 95 gr to 100 gr max in it .

As for the blackout , do you use shotgun powder in your blackout if you have I would love to try it as I have some blue dot and some long shot powder.
2206 h and 2207 are slower powders than 2205 so you cant generate enough speed .
I have shot enough pigs with the blackout to know that getting the projectile over 2100 fps on impact is better than under for a faster knockdown , hence 130 gr are just a little to heavy to achieve that . They were super when I used them in my .308 but the small case of the 300 blk is a handycap but it’s compactness and handling make up for lack of power .

[Billo]

100gr BT at 2900fps is where its at with the Grendel, used 1 for 4 yrs before rebarreling to a 6mm ARC which has better BC 90&100gr bullets and can be launched a little faster and flatter out to 500

[Wyliecoyote]

https://www.nosler.com/65-grendel

[Cactus]

Thanks for the info what I would like to know is the velocity I would have if I had a 16 - 18 inch barrel and using 7.62 x 39 reformed brass . I am assuming a velocity loss off about 350 to 400 fps off published loads from a 24 inch barrel and Grendel brass . I would be loosing 90% of my brass hence wanting to use 39 brass if I can get cheap once fired stuff .

Basically I would like a rifle that shoots a 90 to 110 projectile at 2500 fps using a common base cartridge like a .223 or 308 , 7.62 x 39 Have a barrel length between 16 -18 inches with a 10 shot mag . ideally have a factory rifle already available in that cartridge , and can use powder that is in stock 2208 , 2207 and say 2206H . Rather than the faster pistol powders like 2205 , lili gun , mp 300 which is unavailable with no real indication of its existence in the near future.

Hence my question on the Grendel as it ticks a lot of box’s as long as I can get that speed from the short barrel and x39 case . I could also try 70 gr 223 rounds but it’s lacking a little in weight

[Wyliecoyote]

Being such an efficient cartridge using faster burning powders i doubt you would lose much over 120 fps going from a 24 inch to 18 inch barrel. Benchmark (Benchmark 2 here in Australia) is readily available and is in every gun shop i visit and as the data shows, it is one of the optimum powders for the Grendel.
Loading with 7.62x39 cases is a very expensive option plus they need fireforming. Case volume is down because of the body taper so i doubt you would get the velocity of 2500 fps or the required powder weight charge on a first time firing.
If you wish to launch 100 grain pills at 2500 fps in short barrels using common ADI powders and brass that is everywhere at the range bins, then the 6x45 (6/223) is one to look at. No fireforming, one pass in a die and it is ready to go. I have been running one in a Howa mini for quite some time and can easily get to 2600 fps in a 20 inch barrel without stressing anything while keeping under the 2.260" OAL requirement for 223 length magazines. I rarely collect the brass as it is used as one of my thermal set ups.

[Cactus]

Wylle I have been looking at that cartridge, it’s looking a good option . Looking at the data for the Grendel I would have to reduce powder charge 10 % for fire forming and another 10% for using x 39 brass plus another 150 fps for going from 24 inch barrel to 18 inch

So using Bm 2 95 gr projectile 24 inch barrel max load 30 gr for 2800fps - 10 % for fire forming 2450 fps - another 10% for x 39 brass let’s say 2200 fps then - another 150 fps , I am hunting with a 32-20 .

Let’s start looking at the 6 mm / .223

[Larry]

Why f around just get a 243 it will cover all the weights of projectiles that you are wanting in a common cheapish easy case to get along with all the rifle powders being available.

[Cactus]

Fair point Larry , do you know off any with a 10 shot mag , And a 18 inch barrel . Looking at a short action also . There is no doubt that the .243 would be an awesome round ( I have a Brno in .243 ) looking at something more compact

[Billo]

Why f around just get a 243 it will cover all the weights of projectiles that you are wanting in a common cheapish easy case to get along with all the rifle powders being available.

Noise, recoil and low barrel life go heavily against the 243 Win. I'm a fan of the 243 but if you want a gun that does most of what a 243W does under 200m then a Grendel does a great impersonation.

[Oldbloke]

Why f around just get a 243 it will cover all the weights of projectiles that you are wanting in a common cheapish easy case to get along with all the rifle powders being available.

Noise, recoil and low barrel life go heavily against the 243 Win. I'm a fan of the 243 but if you want a gun that does most of what a 243W does under 200m then a Grendel does a great impersonation.

Or a 243 with less AR2206H in the case.

[bladeracer]

Fair point Larry , do you know off any with a 10 shot mag , And a 18 inch barrel . Looking at a short action also . There is no doubt that the .243 would be an awesome round ( I have a Brno in .243 ) looking at something more compact

Ruger American Ranch Rifle maybe - 16", 10rd, 6.1lb, short-action?
https://ruger.com/products/americanRifleRanch/specSheets/36926.html

Screenshot 2023-12-08 133847.jpg (23.48 KiB) Viewed 3807 times

Could drop it into an MDT LSS chassis using AICS mags if you wanted to.

Do you mean a mini-action? The short-action is .308Win length but is more versatile, even for .223.
I've read through the thread and it seems to me you just need a common cartridge, like .243 or 6.5Creedmoor, and download it to the performance level you want. No mucking around at all and everything cheap and readily available. And both fit the short-action. Personally, I would avoid a rimmed cartridge in a bolt-action.

[Cactus]

Bladeracer that is my 300 blk rifle which I find perfect for my shooting. That’s why the thinking of getting into the 6.5 Grendel but as mentioned before unless I buy factory brass for it , I will not be getting great velocity out of fire formed x39 brass .
Another member had suggested the 6x45 or 6 mm / 223 , which is let’s face it the same as saying a 6 mm / 308 or a 7.62mm /243 etc but in more compact cartridge with less noise and recoil as this is what I am after
So the 6x45 is easy to form , run a .223 case through the 6x45 die a case trim and bob is your uncle no need to fire form either . let’s say I loss 150:fps going to a 18 inch barrel .
Any ideas on cost to replace barrel ? And get new one fitted .

[Larry]

Barrel replacements from $350-1000 for the barrel blank and then about $300-400 for a smith to chamber and fit the barrel.

[Cactus]

Thanks for the reply Larry , $2000 would get me a new rifle chambered, maybe change for a set of dies also

[SCJ429]

Have you looked at the 6mm BR case. One of the most successful competition cases. You could neck it up to 6.5 or 7 mm if you are keen.

[Wyliecoyote]

Have you looked at the 6mm BR case. One of the most successful competition cases. You could neck it up to 6.5 or 7 mm if you are keen.

I think the OPs point was a cartridge that was based off cheap available brass. 6 BR is a great cartridge but is neither cheap or available at the minute. The other real problem with 6 BR is it is difficult to get to feed reliably in a lot of actions beside Rem 700 where you can get AI 6BR specific magazines. But even those are not always perfect.

[SCJ429]

I hear what you are saying and it is all true but how is that any different to the PPC or Grendel case?

[bladeracer]

I hear what you are saying and it is all true but how is that any different to the PPC or Grendel case?

Grendel is cheap because you just form cheap 7.62x39mm brass, though I'm not sure we have a good supply of cheap AK brass here in Oz, not a very common chambering here anymore. Probably a buck apiece for brass unless you can get cheap once-fired from somebody.

For me, you use oddball chamberings because you like the firearm, and that's what they're chambered in, so that's what you use. I don't see much sense in deliberately building a rifle in an uncommon chambering these days when it's hard enough finding ammo for even some common chamberings. But for a reloader it doesn't much matter what a rifle is chambered in, and case catchers are easy enough to use to save losing your oddball brass (and is far better than leaving your scrap scattered through the bush).

Note: Brass catchers are prohibited in NSW except when used on a firearm you are licenced for.

[Wyliecoyote]

I hear what you are saying and it is all true but how is that any different to the PPC or Grendel case?

I agree. That is why a cartridge based off 223 or 308 brass as in 243 have been suggested. I moved from the 7.62×39 myself to the 30 Apache that uses 223 brass with the same end result power wise simply because i hated losing Lapua Ruskie brass in the scrub.

[Cactus]

Thanks for all the replies
Forum based chats are a fantastic way of seeing a full field of view and helpful in narrowing down choices .

The brief to myself was to have a compact, light and moderately recoiling rifle having a 10 shot magazine dedicated to day time pig hunting . It would also have to be economical to feed . Why my thoughts went to the 6.5 Grendel as I already have a 300 blackout in ruger, thought having the same rifle chambered in Grendel would be a idea.

But when looking at the high cost of original brass , and as blade runner pointed out even the availability of x39 brass the gloss of the Grendel is starting to fade .

Then after talking to people in the states that have 16 inch barrels and fire form there brass I would be looking at a fire forming load of around 2200 to 2300 fps using a 95 gr projectile. This is less than what I am getting with the blackout .

So unless I want to buy original brass , and spend a afternoon looking for my case catcher that has fallen off my rifle . I have concluded that the Grendel is unsuitable.

Wylie summed it up , it needs a .223 or 308 based cartridge. I was looking at the 25-45 or 30x45 , something like the Apache looked good ( Whylie I may message you in the near future) . The 6x45 but may struggle with case capacity and heavier projectiles.

Will sort something out that fits my bill , but will enjoy the Banter in the process. If anyone has a second hand rifle that sounds promising let me know , Have a Merry Xmas everyone
Regards Cactus