Large deer calibre in Victoria

[Tomotron]

Anyone know why 6.5 mm (.264) calibre is not legal for hunting large deer and non-game deer in Victoria? Overseas, moose, elk and other larger animals are taken down with 6.5x55 and 6.5 Creed with no ballistic or ethical issues. I understand the minimum is .270 calibre.

[bladeracer]

Anyone know why 6.5 mm (.264) calibre is not legal for hunting large deer and non-game deer in Victoria? Overseas, moose, elk and other larger animals are taken down with 6.5x55 and 6.5 Creed with no ballistic or ethical issues. I understand the minimum is .270 calibre.

Absolutely no logical reason at all.

[Tomotron]

Anyone know why 6.5 mm (.264) calibre is not legal for hunting large deer and non-game deer in Victoria? Overseas, moose, elk and other larger animals are taken down with 6.5x55 and 6.5 Creed with no ballistic or ethical issues. I understand the minimum is .270 calibre.

Absolutely no logical reason at all.

I've sent feedback to the GMA for an answer. Others should do so too.

[mchughcb]

Anyone know why 6.5 mm (.264) calibre is not legal for hunting large deer and non-game deer in Victoria? Overseas, moose, elk and other larger animals are taken down with 6.5x55 and 6.5 Creed with no ballistic or ethical issues. I understand the minimum is .270 calibre.

Did you write a submission to the 2012 games regs like it did to get shotguns included?

Have you ever hunted moose in Sweden? If you have you will understand that most are shot off elkhounds and secondly most people use something bigger like a 308Win.

[Tomotron]

Anyone know why 6.5 mm (.264) calibre is not legal for hunting large deer and non-game deer in Victoria? Overseas, moose, elk and other larger animals are taken down with 6.5x55 and 6.5 Creed with no ballistic or ethical issues. I understand the minimum is .270 calibre.

Did you write a submission to the 2012 games regs like it did to get shotguns included?

Have you ever hunted moose in Sweden? If you have you will understand that most are shot off elkhounds and secondly most people use something bigger like a 308Win.

2012 was sadly before my adulthood. 6.5x55 is the most common centrefire hunting cartridge in Sweden and has better ballistics and less recoil than 308. More moose and red deer have been taken out with 6.5x55 than any other cartridge in Sweden and perhaps the rest of Scandinavia. If there must be a minimum cartridge, then it should be muzzle energy and/or velocity not calibre.

[Oldbloke]

Popcorn.gif (484.96 KiB) Viewed 989 times

[bladeracer]

2012 was sadly before my adulthood. 6.5x55 is the most common centrefire hunting cartridge in Sweden and has better ballistics and less recoil than 308. More moose and elk have been taken out with 6.5x55 than any other cartridge in Sweden and perhaps the rest of Scandinavia. If there must be a minimum cartridge, then it should be muzzle energy and/or velocity not calibre.

That's the thing though, there doesn't need to be any such "minimum" in the regs. Such choices should be left to the individual hunter, though education is never a bad thing. Teach hunters to take clean kills and they'll make good choices in their equipment. Insisting on a specific calibre or bullet weight is meaningless if they choose the wrong bullet for the job.

[Billo]

I wouldnt hesitate to use a 6.5 PRC on Sambar, pretty much has everything up to a 30-06 covered.

[bigpete]

Just deal with it.
Better than people running around trying to shoot them with 22s trying to be heroes

[mchughcb]

Anyone know why 6.5 mm (.264) calibre is not legal for hunting large deer and non-game deer in Victoria? Overseas, moose, elk and other larger animals are taken down with 6.5x55 and 6.5 Creed with no ballistic or ethical issues. I understand the minimum is .270 calibre.

Did you write a submission to the 2012 games regs like it did to get shotguns included?

Have you ever hunted moose in Sweden? If you have you will understand that most are shot off elkhounds and secondly most people use something bigger like a 308Win.

2012 was sadly before my adulthood. 6.5x55 is the most common centrefire hunting cartridge in Sweden and has better ballistics and less recoil than 308. More moose and red deer have been taken out with 6.5x55 than any other cartridge in Sweden and perhaps the rest of Scandinavia. If there must be a minimum cartridge, then it should be muzzle energy and/or velocity not calibre.

Ok then. Did you make a submission in the 2022 games regs? And I just checked most popular calibre for Moose in Nordic countries is 3006.

[mchughcb]

Just deal with it.
Better than people running around trying to shoot them with 22s trying to be heroes

Absolutely on the money.

[bladeracer]

Just deal with it.
Better than people running around trying to shoot them with 22s trying to be heroes

Is there an epidemic of this happening in other states that don't have such regulations? We already have the Animal Welfare act that governs cruelty to animals.

[Tomotron]

Anyone know why 6.5 mm (.264) calibre is not legal for hunting large deer and non-game deer in Victoria? Overseas, moose, elk and other larger animals are taken down with 6.5x55 and 6.5 Creed with no ballistic or ethical issues. I understand the minimum is .270 calibre.

Did you write a submission to the 2012 games regs like it did to get shotguns included?

Have you ever hunted moose in Sweden? If you have you will understand that most are shot off elkhounds and secondly most people use something bigger like a 308Win.

2012 was sadly before my adulthood. 6.5x55 is the most common centrefire hunting cartridge in Sweden and has better ballistics and less recoil than 308. More moose and red deer have been taken out with 6.5x55 than any other cartridge in Sweden and perhaps the rest of Scandinavia. If there must be a minimum cartridge, then it should be muzzle energy and/or velocity not calibre.

Ok then. Did you make a submission in the 2022 games regs? And I just checked most popular calibre for Moose in Nordic countries is 3006.

Where did you check this because 6.5x55 easily takes out moose?
https://www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/1 ... ges/495734

[Fester]

Because the 6.5 cal is borderline and they chose .270 as the minimum with a certain bullet weight that they decided on for hunting big Samba stags that are not small animals.

Shot placement is the key but stags often run off unrecovered after a good shot with a .270.

A well placed .243 will kill most of the time but they chose a bigger animal cartridge and that was logical.

Would you choose the 6.5 Grendal for your Samba hunting?

I love the 6.5 cals and have 2. I hunt deer with a light Tikka in 6.5x55 and would use it on a Samba at normal hunting ranges as my warmed-up 140PSP load punches well above its weight.
It is legal and ethical in NSW but to hunt in Vic, I would need a bigger rifle.

[bladeracer]

Because the 6.5 cal is borderline and they chose .270 as the minimum with a certain bullet weight that they decided on for hunting big Samba stags that are not small animals.

Shot placement is the key but stags often run off unrecovered after a good shot with a .270.

A well placed .243 will kill most of the time but they chose a bigger animal cartridge and that was logical.

Would you choose the 6.5 Grendal for your Samba hunting?

I love the 6.5 cals and have 2. I hunt deer with a light Tikka in 6.5x55 and would use it on a Samba at normal hunting ranges as my warmed-up 140PSP load punches well above its weight.
It is legal and ethical in NSW but to hunt in Vic, I would need a bigger rifle.

What makes a 160gn .264" bullet marginal compared to a 130gn .277" bullet at similar velocities?

[Oldbloke]

Another opinion here.

https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowle ... .5x55.html

[Tomotron]

Another opinion here.

https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowle ... .5x55.html

Thanks!

[Oldbloke]

If you do a simple comparison of both 270 and the 6.5x55 using 140gr max loads. This is out of the 9th ADI ed

270 2979fps
6.5x55 2651fps
.
.
7x57 2719

[bladeracer]

If you do a simple comparison of both 270 and the 6.5x55 using 140gr max loads. This is out of the 9th ADI ed

270 2979fps
6.5x55 2651fps

The regs don't require max loads, both can be subsonic if you prefer.

[Oldbloke]

If you do a simple comparison of both 270 and the 6.5x55 using 140gr max loads. This is out of the 9th ADI ed

270 2979fps
6.5x55 2651fps

The regs don't require max loads, both can be subsonic if you prefer.

I'm aware of that. What's your point?

[bladeracer]

If you do a simple comparison of both 270 and the 6.5x55 using 140gr max loads. This is out of the 9th ADI ed

270 2979fps
6.5x55 2651fps

The regs don't require max loads, both can be subsonic if you prefer.

I'm aware of that. What's your point?

My point is that there are 6.5mm chamberings that are more than capable of doing the job just fine. We don't need completely abstract and unenforceable regulations to complicate matters when we are already governed by other Acts.

[Oldbloke]

Again, I don't understand the point about subsonic?

[bladeracer]

Again, I don't understand the point about subsonic?

I didn't make any point about subsonic, I merely used that to show that the regs ignore velocity entirely so hundreds of different cartridges could be shooting similar bullet weights at similar velocities. The only parts of the regs that can actually be enforced are bullet weight and diameter, neither of which have any bearing at all on the bullet's ability to kill the animal you are shooting at, cleanly or otherwise.

[Oldbloke]

Again, I don't understand the point about subsonic?

I didn't make any point about subsonic, I merely used that to show that the regs ignore velocity entirely so hundreds of different cartridges could be shooting similar bullet weights at similar velocities. The only parts of the regs that can actually be enforced are bullet weight and diameter, neither of which have any bearing at all on the bullet's ability to kill the animal you are shooting at, cleanly or otherwise.

OK, def agree on that point.

[bigpete]

Just deal with it.
Better than people running around trying to shoot them with 22s trying to be heroes

Is there an epidemic of this happening in other states that don't have such regulations? We already have the Animal Welfare act that governs cruelty to animals.

Sure is in SA. Plenty of people try to drop deer with rimfires.

[bigpete]

Because the 6.5 cal is borderline and they chose .270 as the minimum with a certain bullet weight that they decided on for hunting big Samba stags that are not small animals.

Shot placement is the key but stags often run off unrecovered after a good shot with a .270.

A well placed .243 will kill most of the time but they chose a bigger animal cartridge and that was logical.

Would you choose the 6.5 Grendal for your Samba hunting?

I love the 6.5 cals and have 2. I hunt deer with a light Tikka in 6.5x55 and would use it on a Samba at normal hunting ranges as my warmed-up 140PSP load punches well above its weight.
It is legal and ethical in NSW but to hunt in Vic, I would need a bigger rifle.

Pretty much, they just had to draw the line somewhere.

[bigpete]

Again, I don't understand the point about subsonic?

I didn't make any point about subsonic, I merely used that to show that the regs ignore velocity entirely so hundreds of different cartridges could be shooting similar bullet weights at similar velocities. The only parts of the regs that can actually be enforced are bullet weight and diameter, neither of which have any bearing at all on the bullet's ability to kill the animal you are shooting at, cleanly or otherwise.

I'd very much disagree with that. Bullet weight and diameter absolutely do play a large part. Anyone who's used something like a 358w would notice a distinct increase of bang flop

[Oldbloke]

Again, I don't understand the point about subsonic?

I didn't make any point about subsonic, I merely used that to show that the regs ignore velocity entirely so hundreds of different cartridges could be shooting similar bullet weights at similar velocities. The only parts of the regs that can actually be enforced are bullet weight and diameter, neither of which have any bearing at all on the bullet's ability to kill the animal you are shooting at, cleanly or otherwise.

I'd very much disagree with that. Bullet weight and diameter absolutely do play a large part. Anyone who's used something like a 358w would notice a distinct increase of bang flop

100% let's not forget construction

[bigpete]

Again, I don't understand the point about subsonic?

I didn't make any point about subsonic, I merely used that to show that the regs ignore velocity entirely so hundreds of different cartridges could be shooting similar bullet weights at similar velocities. The only parts of the regs that can actually be enforced are bullet weight and diameter, neither of which have any bearing at all on the bullet's ability to kill the animal you are shooting at, cleanly or otherwise.

I'd very much disagree with that. Bullet weight and diameter absolutely do play a large part. Anyone who's used something like a 358w would notice a distinct increase of bang flop

100% let's not forget construction

Yes,but that's a changeable factor in any calibre/bullet weight scenario

[Fester]

Because the 6.5 cal is borderline and they chose .270 as the minimum with a certain bullet weight that they decided on for hunting big Samba stags that are not small animals.

Shot placement is the key but stags often run off unrecovered after a good shot with a .270.

A well placed .243 will kill most of the time but they chose a bigger animal cartridge and that was logical.

Would you choose the 6.5 Grendal for your Samba hunting?

I love the 6.5 cals and have 2. I hunt deer with a light Tikka in 6.5x55 and would use it on a Samba at normal hunting ranges as my warmed-up 140PSP load punches well above its weight.
It is legal and ethical in NSW but to hunt in Vic, I would need a bigger rifle.

What makes a 160gn .264" bullet marginal compared to a 130gn .277" bullet at similar velocities?

Well the std .264" cals generally like about a 140gr pill and I wouldn't really consider 160s, they would be going pretty slow.

Looking at a .270 case, wouldn't the 130gr pills be flying around or topping 3,000fps.
Shooting 150s they prob still beat the Swede and Creed by a fair clip and make a good Samba stopper.
.270s also shoot flatter but I won't shoot one now with the modern non-belted 7mm magnums that can shoot a lot further.
A 7mm going fast should kill pretty well.

They made the min cal not me, and they made a fair call IMO.