Sub-sonic .308 hunting rounds

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Re: Sub-sonic .308 hunting rounds

Post by Oldbloke » 13 Mar 2018, 8:25 am

in2anity wrote:Try and get a soft lead bullet if you’re using them for quite hunting.


Or perhaps drill a hole in the tip?
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Re: Sub-sonic .308 hunting rounds

Post by bigpete » 13 Mar 2018, 10:29 am

Drilling a hole in the tip doesn't seem to do a lot lol
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Re: Sub-sonic .308 hunting rounds

Post by Oldbloke » 13 Mar 2018, 10:50 am

bigpete wrote:Drilling a hole in the tip doesn't seem to do a lot lol


So you tried it?
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Re: Sub-sonic .308 hunting rounds

Post by in2anity » 13 Mar 2018, 6:59 pm

Oldbloke wrote:
in2anity wrote:Try and get a soft lead bullet if you’re using them for quite hunting.


Or perhaps drill a hole in the tip?


Haven’t tried this, sounds interesting - but TBH if I’m feeling like a cowboy and hunting with lead, I load the same projectile over some 2207 through the 30/30 - that hits with a bit more authority. FWIW I reckon exactly the same load would work even better in the 308.
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Re: Sub-sonic .308 hunting rounds

Post by bigpete » 13 Mar 2018, 7:59 pm

Yeah I did with some lead bullets and tried them in water containers. Didn't do much but it might be different in flesh
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Re: Sub-sonic .308 hunting rounds

Post by SCJ429 » 21 May 2018, 9:43 pm

Get the novice shooter to double up the ear protection, squashy ear plugs with ear muffs over the top. Are you sure you cannot get your hands on a 22LR for her to learn on? Also get the shooter to learn seated with shooting sticks. Better than prone and have them hit themselves on the eyebrow when they get the eye relief wrong. Shoot balls or cans at shorter distances to make it fun and build confidence.
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Re: Sub-sonic .308 hunting rounds

Post by Maxjon » 19 Jan 2020, 7:42 pm

A fun subsonic load for me has been 8gns of ANY fast burning pistol or shotgun powder up to and including AR2205 behind a 160 plus grain cast bullet. No slower in burn rate than AR2205 is key. But in saying that AR2205 is not position sensitive, I have loaded 8 to 24 grains of it behind cast bullets in 303, 308 and 3006. I have just bought a can of trailboss to try after loading literally 1000s of these subsonic loads. Hopefully TB is as good as they say it is! Try at your own risk!! All I can say is it works for me.
Sub powders Ive tried so far;
AP50N
AP70N
Bluedot
Reddot
Greendot
AR2205
All 8gns and a 160gn plus cast bullet, cant speak for jacketed bullets.
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Re: Sub-sonic .308 hunting rounds

Post by Maxjon » 19 Mar 2020, 9:10 am

yoshie wrote:What about loading some 100-110 grain bullets just under starting load and see how they go. You can always reduce them down more. I wouldn't go below 10% downloading.



Why not below 10%? With the right fast burning pistol or shotgun powder 8 or 10gns is all is needed. And a good cast bullet. Plenty of other choices besides Trailboss. But I'm keen to try it, see what all hype about it is.
Cant speak for jacketed subsonic bullets however.
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Re: Sub-sonic .308 hunting rounds

Post by Oldbloke » 20 Mar 2020, 8:21 am

These are the issues. Ocassionally guns blow up. Also bullets stuck in barrels. From ADI manual.

reduced loads .jpg
reduced loads .jpg (39.15 KiB) Viewed 6944 times


Reduced loads 60% max 2206H.JPG
Reduced loads 60% max 2206H.JPG (72.59 KiB) Viewed 6944 times


Explosive detonation.jpeg
Explosive detonation.jpeg (38.52 KiB) Viewed 6944 times
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Re: Sub-sonic .308 hunting rounds

Post by Maxjon » 20 Mar 2020, 9:32 am

Oldbloke wrote:These are the issues. Ocassionally guns blow up. Also bullets stuck in barrels. From ADI manual.

reduced loads .jpg


Reduced loads 60% max 2206H.JPG


Explosive detonation.jpeg



Yes seen that, read it everywhere. All I can say is, the right powder choice is critical. The guys I have been shooting these loads with have been doing so for 30 yrs....or more, never had a problem ever. Go figure.....Beer is great, how do they make it so cheap??
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Re: Sub-sonic .308 hunting rounds

Post by bladeracer » 20 Mar 2020, 9:51 am

Bullbarrel033 wrote:[quote="Oldbloke"These are the issues. Ocassionally guns blow up. Also bullets stuck in barrels. From ADI manual.

reduced loads .jpg


Reduced loads 60% max 2206H.JPG


Explosive detonation.jpeg
[/quote


Yes seen that, read it everywhere. All I can say is, the right powder choice is critical. The guys I have been shooting these loads with have been doing so for 30 yrs....or more, never had a problem ever. Go figure.....Beer is great, how do they make it so cheap??


People need to actually read what they're reading.
Light loads...large volume cases...slow burning powders...can sometimes be a problem.
Fast powders in small cases are not a problem.
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Re: Sub-sonic .308 hunting rounds

Post by Oldbloke » 20 Mar 2020, 10:20 am

"People need to actually read what they're reading.
Light loads...large volume cases...slow burning powders...can sometimes be a problem.
Fast powders in small cases are not a problem."

More or less sums it up. With shades in between.
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Re: Sub-sonic .308 hunting rounds

Post by Maxjon » 20 Mar 2020, 11:19 am

I guess 3006, 8mm, 7.62 Nagant, 6.5 Swede, 303 Brit, 308W, are all regarded as small cases then.
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Re: Sub-sonic .308 hunting rounds

Post by bladeracer » 20 Mar 2020, 11:52 am

Bullbarrel033 wrote:I guess 3006, 8mm, 7.62 Nagant, 6.5 Swede, 303 Brit, 308W, are all regarded as small cases then.


Not small, but not large either.
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Re: Sub-sonic .308 hunting rounds

Post by Maxjon » 20 Mar 2020, 2:12 pm

Yeah it's not something I would try with the 55 BMG. Although it would be nice, it kicks like a real bitch!!
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Re: Sub-sonic .308 hunting rounds

Post by bladeracer » 20 Mar 2020, 2:23 pm

Bullbarrel033 wrote:Yeah it's not something I would try with the 55 BMG. Although it would be nice, it kicks like a real bitch!!


I would certainly try Trailboss in the big cartridges.
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Re: Sub-sonic .308 hunting rounds

Post by Oldbloke » 20 Mar 2020, 4:45 pm

It was popular to use shot gun and pistol powders yonks ago. Try and get hold of some old reloading manuals. Say from the 1970s.

Google is your friend.
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Re: Sub-sonic .308 hunting rounds

Post by Maxjon » 20 Mar 2020, 4:57 pm

Oldbloke wrote:It was popular to use shot gun and pistol powders yonks ago. Try and get hold of some old reloading manuals. Say from the 1970s.

Google is your friend.


Yeah interesting! I forgot to mention I can only speak for lubricated cast bullets. I cant speak for jacketed bullets, not do I want to, they are a whole different level of friction, and increased risk of barrel obstructions.
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Re: Sub-sonic .308 hunting rounds

Post by Oldbloke » 20 Mar 2020, 5:21 pm

Yep, cast bullets were very popular back then. As i mentioned, using shotgun powder.
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Re: Sub-sonic .308 hunting rounds

Post by Maxjon » 20 Mar 2020, 6:00 pm

Oldbloke wrote:Yep, cast bullets were very popular back then. As i mentioned, using shotgun powder.




Cast are still popular! I like them......
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Re: Sub-sonic .308 hunting rounds

Post by bladeracer » 20 Mar 2020, 6:15 pm

Bullbarrel033 wrote:[quote="Oldbloke"It was popular to use shot gun and pistol powders yonks ago. Try and get hold of some old reloading manuals. Say from the 1970s.

Google is your friend.[/quote

Yeah interesting! I forgot to mention I can only speak for lubricated cast bullets. I cant speak for jacketed bullets, not do I want to, they are a whole different level of friction, and increased risk of barrel obstructions.


I've had squibs with cast and jacketed bullets.
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Re: Sub-sonic .308 hunting rounds

Post by SCJ429 » 20 Mar 2020, 7:03 pm

Why stuff around with pistol powder when you have Trailboss. What can you do with them that Trailboss can't?
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Re: Sub-sonic .308 hunting rounds

Post by bladeracer » 20 Mar 2020, 7:06 pm

SCJ429 wrote:Why stuff around with pistol powder when you have Trailboss. What can you do with them that Trailboss can't?


You can get more velocity out of pistol powders, Trailboss tops out quiet low, even if you increase the load.
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Re: Sub-sonic .308 hunting rounds

Post by Maxjon » 20 Mar 2020, 7:24 pm

SCJ429 wrote:Why stuff around with pistol powder when you have Trailboss. What can you do with them that Trailboss can't?



Why limit yourself to one powder?
I actually have about 3kgs of TB just haven't tried it yet. I've had really good results with AR2205 from 8gns subsonics to 24gn loads at 2000 fps in 3006. If it can generate 2000fps in the 06 I will be surprised.
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Re: Sub-sonic .308 hunting rounds

Post by SCJ429 » 20 Mar 2020, 7:24 pm

Interesting Blade, I mostly use Trailboss in big bores to replicate black powder charges. I can usually get over half and mostly 2/3 of the speed of the usual powder. Many of these cases use faster powders in any case, there isn't usually too much shoulder in 458 or 50 cal cases.
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Re: Sub-sonic .308 hunting rounds

Post by bladeracer » 20 Mar 2020, 7:33 pm

In .30-06 15gn of Trailboss gives me 1700fps with Berry's .311" 123gn Copper-Plated bullet in my M1903-A3.
My neighbour's Remington 700 get's 65fps less velocity out of the same rounds. He also gets 120fps less velocity out of my 180gn Interlock 2700fps loads.
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Re: Sub-sonic .308 hunting rounds

Post by Stix » 20 Mar 2020, 7:48 pm

If its of interest, from my experience (not much) Blade is right...

Ive only tried trailboss in 204, 22-250 & 7-08, & only chrono'd the 20 & 22 cals, & the speed max's out before the case is full...
& from a hunting perspective, the difference in performance of 20 & 22 cal ballistic tips on rabbit heads out to 120 odd yds is imeasurable from min to max published loads.

Ive never been game to try other fast powders...when i post that question up a year or 2 ago no one had any proven advice other than trailboss.
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Re: Sub-sonic .308 hunting rounds

Post by bladeracer » 20 Mar 2020, 7:55 pm

SCJ429 wrote:Interesting Blade, I mostly use Trailboss in big bores to replicate black powder charges. I can usually get over half and mostly 2/3 of the speed of the usual powder. Many of these cases use faster powders in any case, there isn't usually too much shoulder in 458 or 50 cal cases.


Maybe the larger bore diameter helps the burn?
In 8x57mm with a 182gn cast bullet I get 1380fps with 14gn of Trailboss and only 1430fps on 19gn. 20gn of AR2206H also gives me 1400fps, so I use that if I want to go faster.
10gn of Trailboss is just subsonic with the 182gn cast.
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Re: Sub-sonic .308 hunting rounds

Post by SCJ429 » 20 Mar 2020, 8:01 pm

bladeracer wrote:In .30-06 15gn of Trailboss gives me 1700fps with Berry's .311" 123gn Copper-Plated bullet in my M1903-A3.
My neighbour's Remington 700 get's 65fps less velocity out of the same rounds. He also gets 120fps less velocity out of my 180gn Interlock 2700fps loads.

Is there a need to shoot a 123 grain projectile at more than 1700 fps but slower than 3000 fps which should be achievable with 2206? Just trying to understand why a pistol powder would be required.
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Re: Sub-sonic .308 hunting rounds

Post by bladeracer » 20 Mar 2020, 8:04 pm

SCJ429 wrote:[quote="bladeracer"In .30-06 15gn of Trailboss gives me 1700fps with Berry's .311" 123gn Copper-Plated bullet in my M1903-A3.
My neighbour's Remington 700 get's 65fps less velocity out of the same rounds. He also gets 120fps less velocity out of my 180gn Interlock 2700fps loads.[/quote
Is there a need to shoot a 123 grain projectile at more than 1700 fps but slower than 3000 fps which should be achievable with 2206? Just trying to understand why a pistol powder would be required.


Because it would require a lot more AR2206H than it does Trailboss (almost double), and TB gives much better case fill with reduced loads, generally giving better accuracy.
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