Short magnums

[south]

Hi guys,

Can someone tell me about short magnums?

I just notice with what's on shelves in stores 300 win mag is common enough, 300 win short magnum isn't anywhere to be found.

Are they worth having or is getting supplies too much of a pain? What's the advantage?

[1290]

The new generation of short magnums are bulls*&t!

They're a solution to a problem that never existed.

Go the original family of short mag; 264/300/338/458 win mag.

[Shotfox]

The new generation of short magnums are bulls*&t!

They're a solution to a problem that never existed.

Go the original family of short mag; 264/300/338/458 win mag.

Agree. ADI are currently testing factory 300 WSM ammo to add to the range of Outback ammo. It has a black case and will come in clips of five rounds in a box of 20. Dont know where they are up to but I beleive it is soon to be released.

[Klem]

There's some argument that the wider, shorter arrangement of powder gives better accuracy.

A shorter action (can cycle the bolt faster) is the main advantage with them.

[handofcod]

I've just bought a 300wsm but haven't picked it up yet. Advantages that I've read about are:

Shorter action and shorter barrel achieves close to 300wm speeds but in a lighter package
Theoretically more accurate because greater surface area exposed to primer
Uses 10% or so less powder which theoretically produces less recoil and saves money for reloading
No belt on case

For me it was just because it's more interesting to me as a reloader. I honestly don't know if any of these are measurable advantages.

[1290]

It's called marketing. Build it and they will come...

From an efficiency perspective, yes, the shorter powder column will probably burn more efficiently and therefore need less powder, but a magnum primer will engulf most of the column regardless of whether its a long or short mag.

This idea of saving weight from a shorter action, come on, a quarter inch of action?? is going to make or break your trek from the car boot to the bench?? and the 'shorter' bolt throw by the same length will spell the difference between a successful hunt? saving 0.1 of a second?

There are disadvantages; stubby case feeding from the mag.....sharp shoulder angle feeding well much, if I'm out on the hunt I dont want to cross my fingers each time I pop a round from the mag up into the chamber threshold.

Give me a 300winmag, maybe even the old lady 300H&H.

I do magnum oldstyle

[The Brass]

Uses 10% or so less powder which theoretically produces less recoil and saves money for reloading
No belt on case

That's a stretch to say that's a benefit of the SM cartridges specifically. There's no magic recoil reduction.

Less powder in anything means less recoil in anything obviously. Reduce the load in your regular win mag etc.

Not knocking your WSM, just saying

[Khan]

and the 'shorter' bolt throw by the same length will spell the difference between a successful hunt? saving 0.1 of a second?

I've always had to turn my nose up a bit at the idea of a short action being needed for a dangerous game rifle.

Like you say, 0.1 of a second saved or however much it is.

If your hunts are turning into life or death situations and coming down to the length of your bolt action to save you you're doing something massively wrong

Must be for the idiots that walk 5 metres away from angry buff before pulling the trigger.

[BBJ]

You mean bullets go further than 5 metres? Since when?!

[headwerkn]

Before buying my 300WM I test drove my old boss's 300WSM (Steyr Pro Hunter - trés noice) for an evening to get a feel for the recoil, inadvertently shooting through a $70 box of XP3 ammo in the process.... kinda wish he'd told me how expensive the rounds beforehand :-/

I wasn't able to sense any difference in either recoil or accuracy. Both go "boom" in a fairly significant manner, as accurate as you are out to whatever distance you dare.... chew through a box in an hour and your shoulder will be as bruised as your wallet. All good fun.

In terms of 300WM vs 300WSM the only real genuine point of differentiation I'm aware of is the former's short neck being a limitation when handloading certain projectiles.

[Westy]

and the 'shorter' bolt throw by the same length will spell the difference between a successful hunt? saving 0.1 of a second?

I've always had to turn my nose up a bit at the idea of a short action being needed for a dangerous game rifle.

Like you say, 0.1 of a second saved or however much it is.

If your hunts are turning into life or death situations and coming down to the length of your bolt action to save you you're doing something massively wrong

Must be for the idiots that walk 5 metres away from angry buff before pulling the trigger.

I'm with KHAN on this one if I can't kill it with 1 shot then I need a bigger Rifle or I'm not trying hard enough, short action long action it's still a bolt action!!!!!

[meateater]

inadvertently shooting through a $70 box of XP3 ammo in the process.... kinda wish he'd told me how expensive the rounds beforehand :-/

Sounds like he just palmed off an expensive box of ammo onto you. Probably went and bout a $40 after and went to the pub with the change

[Khan]

I'm with KHAN on this one if I can't kill it with 1 shot then I need a bigger Rifle or I'm not trying hard enough

Or doing something stupid... I couldn't believe some of the videos I've seen on YouTube of dangerous game hunts.

Guy shooting charging buffalo at 5 metres like I said, or there is one where a bloke waits so long for this charging lion that when it hits the deck after the shot it slides past him and knocks him over in the process. Pull trigger 1/4 second later or miss and he'd be cat food.

Talk about asking for trouble...

[cooker]

I wouldn't want to hunt a lion, but if I did I'd be doing it at like 200m!

From the top of a tall ass truck too if I can!

[headwerkn]

:shock: Sounds like he just palmed off an expensive box of ammo onto you. Probably went and bout a $40 after and went to the pub with the change

Nah, that was his deer rifle and probably shot 3-5 rounds a season at most (he had access to cull tags) - he'd probably had the box for a couple of years. I replaced the box with the most premium rounds I could find locally, even though he said I didn't have to..... he was a lousy boss to work for but very good to me when it came to borrowing trailers, work utes etc. for personal use.

[meateater]

Fair enough then

I know what you mean about the rest of him, some good blokes are just s**t bosses.

[bobnob]

I wouldn't eschew the short magnums so readily. I don't have one myself (338WM is the only magnum I have) but in the case of the 300WSM for example, I can see some merit.

To me a short action does balance nicely in the hands and that can help when shooting at game offhand or from an improvised rest. These cartridges can also be easily chambered in other sorts of actions like the BLR. I wouldn't say no to a BLR in 300 or 325WSM. The longer action BLRs chambered in 30-06 etc just look and feel wrong to me.

They have also done away with the useless belt. That's a step up in thinking to me.

There's a couple of short magnums I'd really like to do in a nice custom bolt rifle; the 338RCM and the 7mmWSM.

Yeah, I can see some merit to the short magnums! Not all of them, but a few.

[Kater]

You mean bullets go further than 5 metres? Since when?!

Since Tuesday the 12th of August.

Didn't you get the memo? I'll forward it to you.

[1290]

I wouldn't eschew the short magnums so readily. I don't have one myself (338WM is the only magnum I have) but in the case of the 300WSM for example, I can see some merit.

To me a short action does balance nicely in the hands and that can help when shooting at game offhand or from an improvised rest. These cartridges can also be easily chambered in other sorts of actions like the BLR. I wouldn't say no to a BLR in 300 or 325WSM. The longer action BLRs chambered in 30-06 etc just look and feel wrong to me.

They have also done away with the useless belt. That's a step up in thinking to me.

There's a couple of short magnums I'd really like to do in a nice custom bolt rifle; the 338RCM and the 7mmWSM.

Yeah, I can see some merit to the short magnums! Not all of them, but a few.

Bobnob, sounds like the marketing has won you over..... there are some rifles and rifle types that balance better, this is probably mostly a personal think, the way you hold, where your hands sit, the size of your hands, the grip/hand spacing, the stock and grip material and finish even...... But an extra poofteenth of action length making or breaking the experience??? Naaaaah. Not to me, anyway. Give me a slick feeding 'old' magnum.

[greyghost]

But an extra poofteenth of action length making or breaking the experience?

Poofteenth

Is that metric or imperial

[1290]

But an extra poofteenth of action length making or breaking the experience?

Poofteenth

Is that metric or imperial

Obviously Imperial its a fraction...

Its a bit more than a bees-dick (can i say bee??)

[Monty]

can i say bee?

Um, yeah?

"Bee" isn't a four letter word last time I checked

[1290]

can i say bee?

Um, yeah?

"Bee" isn't a four letter word last time I checked

Luckily you didnt read past bee then...

[Combat_Wombat]

Speaking of risky big game shots check out the video death at my feet on YouTube

The guy looks like magnum pi and approaches the game until they charge and he shoots them as close as possible so they quite literally drop at his feet

[yoshie]

The real reason short Magnums were developed is so rifle manufacturers can standardise action lengths. They want to make one standard action for all centrefire cartridges, like what Tikka do now but theirs is a long action. It was a failed experiment. I'm not nocking the WSM, people I know who have them love them. But they weren't good enough to replace the current long cartridges like 270, 30-06 and 7mm RM.

[Korkt]

The guy looks like magnum pi and approaches the game until they charge and he shoots them as close as possible so they quite literally drop at his feet

I got no time for that cowboy stuff.

Just wait for the last video where the shot glances off a bone instead of penetrating.

The guy will be in for an interested trip then.

[1290]

The real reason short Magnums were developed is so rifle manufacturers can standardise action lengths. They want to make one standard action for all centrefire cartridges, like what Tikka do now but theirs is a long action. It was a failed experiment. I'm not nocking the WSM, people I know who have them love them. But they weren't good enough to replace the current long cartridges like 270, 30-06 and 7mm RM.

Are you referring to the 'original' short mags, being the win mag family or the newer wsm/wssm and similar...

Yes the win mags (and several Rem, wby, Norma Mags) were sized to the standard action length, suiting the 30-06 Spr. cartridge length of 84.84mm or near.


Re the youtube vids, what are crackup, the hippo is 5m away and the PH is still repeating "Not yet, not yet".... by that stage I would have well and truely let off both barrels and been feeling for the third trigger...

[yoshie]

The real reason short Magnums were developed is so rifle manufacturers can standardise action lengths. They want to make one standard action for all centrefire cartridges, like what Tikka do now but theirs is a long action. It was a failed experiment. I'm not nocking the WSM, people I know who have them love them. But they weren't good enough to replace the current long cartridges like 270, 30-06 and 7mm RM.

Are you referring to the 'original' short mags, being the win mag family or the newer wsm/wssm and similar...

The new wsm

[Tiiger]

They want to make one standard action for all centrefire cartridges, like what Tikka do now but theirs is a long action. It was a failed experiment.

Good idea though.

Just too hard to overtake the established chambering's I guess.

[bobnob]

Bobnob, sounds like the marketing has won you over..... there are some rifles and rifle types that balance better, this is probably mostly a personal think, the way you hold, where your hands sit, the size of your hands, the grip/hand spacing, the stock and grip material and finish even...... But an extra poofteenth of action length making or breaking the experience??? Naaaaah. Not to me, anyway. Give me a slick feeding 'old' magnum.

No not marketing. Practicality and an assessment of merit is what is in my mind.