Two "no go bang"!!!

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Two "no go bang"!!!

Post by jennageit » 04 Sep 2014, 9:25 am

Hi Guys,

I went shooting again at the range last night and had a reasonably good time. I had difficulty concentrating due to worries with my hubby (his BP is through the roof atm), but managed to switch that off for about 5 minutes at a time lol

My first shoot (Benchrest 50m - with old target cards) I used T22 ammunition, no problems. Scored 193, so 1 point up on the week before.

My second card, I changed to SK Rifle Match ammunition, and scored badly. It started out okay until the first misfire. I got past that, had a few shots that at least hit the circle but were nothing to write home about, and I was just settling again, and I had another misfire.

Actually, maybe it isn't called a misfire. I pulled the trigger and nothing happened. about 40 seconds later my supervisor unloaded the rifle, had a look and put the offending bullet in a case, then gave me the next one to load. Is it called a misfire?

Anyway, I didn't enjoy the second card as much as the first, and found that after the first "no go bang", I lost my rhythm. I was told the SK Rifle Match ammunition was more accurate, and my first shot was a bullseye, but to score 179 when I've been consistently in the 190's?

Am I expecting too much?

This is only my third attempt, my 4th card.

What can I do to shake off the "yuck" after this happens?
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Re: Two "no go bang"!!!

Post by brett1868 » 04 Sep 2014, 9:37 am

What I do with my rim fire rifles when I first buy them is to grab half a dozen different brands / velocity ammunition and hit the range. My little PWS .22LR loves the RWS HV and Lapua HV. CCI is ok but groups at 2" and some others are all over the place. By trying many different brands and velocities you should be able to find one that shoots just that little bit better then the others.

As for the non bang round think of it as a flinch training round. If you flinched or anticipated the shot a dud will show you need to improve your technique. When I was practising with pistols many years ago I'd deliberately leave a chamber empty, spin the cylinder and then shoot. Initially I flinched or anticipated the shot but over time I learnt not to flinch or anticipate using this technique.
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Re: Two "no go bang"!!!

Post by wrenchman » 04 Sep 2014, 9:42 am

Nerves have a lot to do with shooting.

I am sure you have friends that do yoga, it is like that.
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Re: Two "no go bang"!!!

Post by Sender » 04 Sep 2014, 2:35 pm

Ammo does fail, but 2 in one session is terrible luck.

I've been hundreds of rounds since I last had one misfire, and that was due to a dirty firing pin, not the ammo.
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Re: Two "no go bang"!!!

Post by SendIt » 04 Sep 2014, 2:41 pm

jennageit wrote:My second card, I changed to SK Rifle Match ammunition, and scored badly. It started out okay until the first misfire. I got past that, had a few shots that at least hit the circle but were nothing to write home about, and I was just settling again, and I had another misfire.

Actually, maybe it isn't called a misfire. I pulled the trigger and nothing happened. about 40 seconds later my supervisor unloaded the rifle, had a look and put the offending bullet in a case, then gave me the next one to load. Is it called a misfire?


If it fails to fire for whatever reason it's a misfire.

Learning the cause is valuable though. When the supervisor removed the cartridge did he determine what the problem was? Did he tell you?

1) It's possible it was a dud round. If you're constantly getting misfires I'd try different ammo. SK is quality ammo though.

2) More lightly you had a light firing pin strike. If this was the case and you'd been shown the problem cartridge at the time you probably would have seen a shallow dent in the rim of the case.

If there is crap build up in your firing pin hole or clinging to your pin it can cause this. Afterwards the ammo is typically find and you just chamber it again and with a firm strike it will fire as normal.

If this is the case the rifle bolt needs disassembling and cleaning.
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Re: Two "no go bang"!!!

Post by Streamline » 04 Sep 2014, 2:43 pm

jennageit wrote:Am I expecting too much?


No, you're not.

With a maintained rifle and half decent ammo misfires should be very rare.
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Re: Two "no go bang"!!!

Post by Streamline » 04 Sep 2014, 2:43 pm

jennageit wrote:What can I do to shake off the "yuck" after this happens?


It's frustrating to ruin a shot but what can you do.

Take a deep breath and start again.
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Re: Two "no go bang"!!!

Post by VICHunter » 04 Sep 2014, 2:45 pm

SendIt wrote:1) It's possible it was a dud round. If you're constantly getting misfires I'd try different ammo. SK is quality ammo though.


Shooting SK Rifle Match I shot at least 1,500 rounds without a misfire.

I'd be looking at the rifle as the culprit for this.
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Re: Two "no go bang"!!!

Post by Tiiger » 04 Sep 2014, 2:46 pm

Probably a range rifle that doesn't get much care, right Jenna?
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Re: Two "no go bang"!!!

Post by jennageit » 04 Sep 2014, 2:54 pm

I'm not sure if it it does get much care, it's not the one I usually use.

The rifle I used last night was a lot heavier, and the trigger was a lot tougher. The trigger on the one I had been using is feather light.

It was explained why the misfire although it looked as if the strike had been good.

I've been told to use those 2 for sighting, and it is expected that they will fire.

It put me off at the time though :(
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Re: Two "no go bang"!!!

Post by Farmjer » 04 Sep 2014, 4:12 pm

jennageit wrote:It was explained why the misfire although it looked as if the strike had been good.


There can be soft strikes where the primer is dented but it didn't fire. Can look like it should have been good but it just didn't quite get there.

Hit it again and it'll go the second time though.
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Re: Two "no go bang"!!!

Post by jennageit » 10 Sep 2014, 11:29 pm

Hey guys,

I went shooting again tonight.

The two misfires worked perfectly tonight, and after some coaching, I scored 182 on the first card of 20 targets at 50m, and 187 on the second card.

Although my scores are lower than my 190's, I'm feeling more comfortable, and a lot less uptight when shooting.

Now that I'm getting help to sort out my technique, I believe that I'll improve over time.

The guys at the range are full of advice and tips, and I'm already looking forward to next Wednesday! Lol

Jenna
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Re: Two "no go bang"!!!

Post by on_one_wheel » 11 Sep 2014, 9:05 am

I had a run of miss fires using powerpoint .22 ammo, I was pretty sure it was the pin spring so I went ahead and changed out the nearly 20 year old spring.... no difference, 2 in 5 were still missfiring.

Turned out that my ammo was to blame, It had spent too much time in the glove box and had seen plenty of extreme heat. The new batch fresh from my lgs ran flawlessly.
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Re: Two "no go bang"!!!

Post by Gregg » 11 Sep 2014, 1:40 pm

jennageit wrote:Although my scores are lower than my 190's, I'm feeling more comfortable, and a lot less uptight when shooting.


It happens.

Ups and downs in your scores is to be expected.
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Re: Two "no go bang"!!!

Post by jennageit » 11 Sep 2014, 2:34 pm

Hey Gregg,

I was looking at my cards, and it's really obvious when I started relaxing and things were going right with me. Given I've just started, I'm happy if I shoot in the 180's until I get my technique sorted out. If I go below that, I wont exactly be happy, but I'm hoping that within the next few months I'll be consistently in the 190's out of 200.

They guys are keeping me on the old 50m bench targets at this stage, apparently due to not wanting to affect my confidence, and they'll tell me when I'm ready to move to the new (smaller) targets.

When I figure everything out, I'll be happy.
I still can't get over how much I don't understand about shooting. Here I was thinking it'd take me forever to learn about the cars, and yet, I'm such a pathetic little newbie when it comes to shooting.
Thank god I've got this forum for info, and that I don't mind doing research eh lol

Jenna

PS. I'll probably continue posting my scores (good and bad) in this thread, at least until I'm consistent, and have no more questions :-D
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Re: Two "no go bang"!!!

Post by Apollo » 11 Sep 2014, 2:49 pm

I bet there are a few here that have no idea what targets you are shooting at....me included. There are so many different ones. How about a picture of a target card and give us an idea of what you are talking about....put a ruler on the centre so we can see how big you scoring rings are.

If you want to keep playing with .22LR Target shooting there are a few things you can do to improve your own consistancy and cheaply. If the instructors have not told you then sorting your ammunition by weight, rim thickness and/or both will help with those flyers that don't want to behave.

The best target shooters do actually sort their ammunition by rim thickness and it's easy to make a gauge to do that or buy one but they aren't cheap. I wrote an article once on another Forum that showed how to do it with a spent .22 calibre centrefire case and a set of digital calipres (cheap). If you PM me an address I'll happily make you a gauge, just buy the calipres. It takes time but it's worth it....

For example... I use SK Rifle Match in my 1965 Brno Model 2 and unsorted I would get one bullet outside making one hole at 50 metres near every 2-3 targets, gauge and sort the ammo and I reduced that to nil. My best ammo was Elley Black Match but that's three times the price and no more accurate.

I don't shoot .22LR Target very much, not really interested. I shoot centrefire and my aim is to break the 5 shot 1" group at 500 metres.... I'm close to achieving that.
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Re: Two "no go bang"!!!

Post by jennageit » 11 Sep 2014, 3:15 pm

Hi Guys,

Below is the target I shoot at.

50m Bench rest. The target circles are just shy of 5.5cm. The internal circles are about 1cm from each other, until the centre, obviously. It's impossible to get a photo at this stage, but I'll try and get one this evening.

That picture is of my second ever shoot, and I scored a happy 193.

The ammunition I'm using now is SK Rifle Match, but that card was using T22.

No-one, before today, had mentioned sorting my rounds. I guess I figured that they'd all be pretty much the same coming out of the same box.

Jenna
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Target circle outside edge to outside edge is 5.5cm across.
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Re: Two "no go bang"!!!

Post by Apollo » 11 Sep 2014, 5:59 pm

Jenna, I see what you mean and I think I can help even using borrowed "Rifle Club" firearms.

Looks pretty good, but.... with a few hints you can do better.

The hints etc I have come from a couple of friends who are up there with Australia's best rifle shooters. At international level and shoot .22LR at 200 metres, not 50 metres, to win competitions. Fair enough, their rifles are very custom made and very expensive but the preparation you can do with simple tools will not cost very much and make you, yourself feel better.

Jenna, you are doing well. Don't know how big those rings are. Stay with it.

In my view a good target shooter, also makes a very good hunter as they know where their shot is going to land on a critter. Much better than those that talk about minute of critter and all they want is to hit somewhere on a body...not good.
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Re: Two "no go bang"!!!

Post by jennageit » 11 Sep 2014, 6:18 pm

Hi Apollo,
I'm open to ALL suggestions and hints.

Looking back at what I did last night, compared to my first and second shoot, although the score was lower, I feel like I'm getting the hang of it.

As for hunting, I wont be going hunting until I can almost guarantee (as much as I can anyway) that I will only need one shot to kill whatever I'm shooting at. Of course, life doesn't always work like that, but if I can't be positive of getting the good shot in, I'll wait for another opportunity.
I went shooting with my dad when he was shooting roos, and we found 6 roos that had been shot and not killed. Dad put them out of their misery.

So, feel free to give advice, tips, etc etc

I've included a pic, sorry about the crappy quality, of my setup last night before I started shooting.

Jenna
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Re: Two "no go bang"!!!

Post by veep » 11 Sep 2014, 10:00 pm

Which range is that?

What's with the funny little windows? :lol:
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Re: Two "no go bang"!!!

Post by jennageit » 11 Sep 2014, 10:08 pm

It's Leongatha Small Bore Rifle Club, and the little hole is where you shoot through.
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Re: Two "no go bang"!!!

Post by veep » 12 Sep 2014, 10:47 am

One of those kinds of shooting range hey.

Don't trust you to have an open firing line :(
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Re: Two "no go bang"!!!

Post by Baronvonrort » 12 Sep 2014, 11:50 pm

jennageit wrote:Hi Apollo,
I'm open to ALL suggestions and hints.

Looking back at what I did last night, compared to my first and second shoot, although the score was lower, I feel like I'm getting the hang of it.

As for hunting, I wont be going hunting until I can almost guarantee (as much as I can anyway) that I will only need one shot to kill whatever I'm shooting at. Of course, life doesn't always work like that, but if I can't be positive of getting the good shot in, I'll wait for another opportunity.


Jenna


Practice does not make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect.

At this stage you need trigger time, when you have fired a couple of hundred rounds you will find it a lot easier, you are going ok don't be worried.

Check out this shooting test for kangaroo harvesters,if you can shoot a 5 round group of less than 50mm they will give you a Top Gun card.
http://www.firearmtraining.com.au/html/ ... khtest.htm
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Re: Two "no go bang"!!!

Post by schink » 15 Sep 2014, 2:44 pm

Baronvonrort wrote:At this stage you need trigger time, when you have fired a couple of hundred rounds you will find it a lot easier, you are going ok don't be worried.


There does seem to be a point after shooting a good amount of rounds that something clicks and you get a lot better I think.
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Re: Two "no go bang"!!!

Post by jennageit » 17 Sep 2014, 11:38 pm

Shooting tonight went well.
1st card was 189/200,
2nd card was 191/200.

I even managed to get 2 bullseyes on one of the cards!

Only problem now is that I have to wait until next Wednesday to go shooting again lol
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Re: Two "no go bang"!!!

Post by Apollo » 18 Sep 2014, 12:22 am

Keep it up...!!!!

Practise makes perfect, the more you practise the more you will enjoy it.

When you enter your first competition shoot and do well, you will be so proud. I was...!!

It will pay off, it makes you also a better hunter / varminter. Just swap the bullseye for a real eye.

More power to you.
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Re: Two "no go bang"!!!

Post by Fry » 18 Sep 2014, 2:58 pm

jennageit wrote:2nd card was 191/200.


And now the chase for those last 9 points :D
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Re: Two "no go bang"!!!

Post by jennageit » 18 Sep 2014, 6:49 pm

That's the plan mate. I'd still like to know where I'm going wrong, but time will tell.

Jenna

Can't wait until next Wedesday night!
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Re: Two "no go bang"!!!

Post by Apollo » 18 Sep 2014, 8:07 pm

As I mentioned earlier, a lot of precision rimfire target shooters measure and batch all their ammo by "Rim Thickness". From my trials of cheap to expensive ammo the results vary and get less as the quality goes up but there is still enough variation that when you strike one round that is different it won't hit the same point of aim as the other.

It's cheap to do with something home made or you can buy a designated "Rimfire Rim Thickness Gauge" ......

A home made one looks like this ....

Image

You can see a .22LR cartridge in the case neck and the calipres show the thickness.

If you would like to try it out PM me your mailing address and I'll make one up for you and post it over. Pictured is one made from a .22Hornet Case but it doesn't have a very large case head so I might make on out of an old .22BR Case which is near twice the head diameter. I square the case head and neck to each other with my case trimmer.

Let me know if you want to give it a go.
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Re: Two "no go bang"!!!

Post by jennageit » 19 Sep 2014, 10:53 am

Thanks Apollo,

I'll keep it in mind.
At the moment, I'm trying to sort out my technique. It seems every time I fix one thing, I let another slip, which is infuriating, but I'll get there.
When I'm sorted, I'll definitely be getting in touch with you.

Jenna
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