Conflicting cartridge names

Calibres, cartridges, ballistics tables and ammunition information.

Re: Conflicting cartridge names

Post by Wes » 12 Sep 2014, 4:13 pm

All developed at different times, in different places by different people who called it WTF ever made sense to them at the time.

They're never going to have a set of uniformed names for cartridges.
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Re: Conflicting cartridge names

Post by newsteadvic » 12 Sep 2014, 6:22 pm

oldnews wrote:Can someone explain this to me.

Something like the .22 or .223 use a .224 calibre bullet. The bullet (according the names and numbers) is larger than the bore of the rifle.

Then you have .308 which uses a .30 calibre bullet. The bullet is smaller this time than numbers would suggest.


However the .308 has a .308 groove diameter, a .30 bore diameter so it does make good sense. This is a nice picture demonstrating lands and groove and bore for the Russian 7.62x54R (.30 bore but .314 groove diameter, takes a .311 bullet - same as .303 british):
Image

However I do agree there are some that make no sense - 38special is actually the same as 357 (in bore size, not brass length!)
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Re: Conflicting cartridge names

Post by 1290 » 12 Sep 2014, 7:08 pm

newsteadvic wrote:
oldnews wrote:Can someone explain this to me.

Something like the .22 or .223 use a .224 calibre bullet. The bullet (according the names and numbers) is larger than the bore of the rifle.

Then you have .308 which uses a .30 calibre bullet. The bullet is smaller this time than numbers would suggest.


However the .308 has a .308 groove diameter, a .30 bore diameter so it does make good sense. This is a nice picture demonstrating lands and groove and bore for the Russian 7.62x54R (.30 bore but .314 groove diameter, takes a .311 bullet - same as .303 british):
Image

However I do agree there are some that make no sense - 38special is actually the same as 357


Thats almost on the money... but the 7.62x54R has a 7.92mm proj (.312inch) like the 303Brit, but the land /groove dimensions are 7.62/7.92 (0.300/0.312)...

Cartridge names can be taken as arbitrary 'names' and as a guide really to the bullet or bore size....
The 222Rem, 223Rem, 220Swift, 5.7x28, 5.6x57, 224 Weatherby Mag all use 224 proj....
308Win, 30-06Spring, 300Win Mag and others... all have a 0.308groove diameter, and use a 0.309Proj....yup...

44 Remington Magnum has a 0.429 groove and a 0.432 proj.... 44 Just sounds more 'manly'

Some cartridges use bullets undersized to the groove(303Brit) which partially engrave the rifling, some use groove sized bullets (243Win) which fully engrave, while most others use oversized projectiles (223Rem, 308Win almost everything else) which swage down and fully engrave the rifling.....

There are different systems, Euro, US, arbitrary, words - magnum, nitro, express, short, long, ultra, super, special...then the numerals.
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Re: Conflicting cartridge names

Post by Noisydad » 12 Sep 2014, 7:13 pm

Just easier to accept that its a secret code that you have to learn the hard way...... unless you grew up in a gun enthusiast family and were surrounded by them from birth in which case the knowledge is instinctive and possibly even DNA based! :-D
There's still a few of Wile. E Coyote's ideas that I haven't tried yet.
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Re: Conflicting cartridge names

Post by deanp100 » 13 Sep 2014, 7:45 pm

Also stops people blowing themselves up.

How would we go with a 308 win, 308 rem,308 savage, 308 British, 308 Russian, 308 wm all been different.

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Re: Conflicting cartridge names

Post by Timb0 » 13 Sep 2014, 11:02 pm

1290 wrote:
newsteadvic wrote:
oldnews wrote:Can someone explain this to me.

Something like the .22 or .223 use a .224 calibre bullet. The bullet (according the names and numbers) is larger than the bore of the rifle.

Then you have .308 which uses a .30 calibre bullet. The bullet is smaller this time than numbers would suggest.


However the .308 has a .308 groove diameter, a .30 bore diameter so it does make good sense. This is a nice picture demonstrating lands and groove and bore for the Russian 7.62x54R (.30 bore but .314 groove diameter, takes a .311 bullet - same as .303 british):
Image

However I do agree there are some that make no sense - 38special is actually the same as 357


Thats almost on the money... but the 7.62x54R has a 7.92mm proj (.312inch) like the 303Brit, but the land /groove dimensions are 7.62/7.92 (0.300/0.312)...

Cartridge names can be taken as arbitrary 'names' and as a guide really to the bullet or bore size....
The 222Rem, 223Rem, 220Swift, 5.7x28, 5.6x57, 224 Weatherby Mag all use 224 proj....
308Win, 30-06Spring, 300Win Mag and others... all have a 0.308groove diameter, and use a 0.309Proj....yup...

44 Remington Magnum has a 0.429 groove and a 0.432 proj.... 44 Just sounds more 'manly'

Some cartridges use bullets undersized to the groove(303Brit) which partially engrave the rifling, some use groove sized bullets (243Win) which fully engrave, while most others use oversized projectiles (223Rem, 308Win almost everything else) which swage down and fully engrave the rifling.....

There are different systems, Euro, US, arbitrary, words - magnum, nitro, express, short, long, ultra, super, special...then the numerals.


.284" doesn't convert to 7mm - its more like 7.2mm. however they are shown as the same thing on projectile packets. I assumed it was the American system compared to Euro? I'm sure someone can fill me in here.?
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Re: Conflicting cartridge names

Post by Apollo » 13 Sep 2014, 11:26 pm

When are you people going to learn.... do some more reading please.

Cartridge names are different to calibre, calibre is different to actual bore dimensions. It's the same as the difference detween an "Ice Cream" and a "Icy Pop" , "Paddle Pop".....!!!

There are probably a dozen or more Calibres referred to as "22 Calibre" they are all different. some have different bullet dimensions.. and I say "Bullet" because some people call them "Projectiles" which in my view is wrong. A projectile is anything that can be projected forwards like an arrow, out of bow and arrow. With firearms, they are bullets. A "Sling Shot" uses a projectile. a "Shot Gun" uses pellets in general.... not projectiles. Get the point.

Before 1950's the .22Hornet used a .223" bullet, afterwards it used a .224" bullet. There is a lot of difference when you say accuracy if you get it wrong. The manufacturers changed the bore size and that is not the only calibre that has happened with. I'm not an expert but I believe there are a couple of different bore sizes with what is called a "303" and at least three different sized bullets that are provided these days for a "303"....non of which are "30 calibre" being .308 sorry, .3085" diameter bullets.....more so .3095" if you measure them correctly.

Gee, I didn't look up "303" but from memory they might even use 0.312" or bigger diameter bullets... shoot me down, I don't play 303 calibre.

Do you realise that a lot of bullets have what is called a "pressure ring" at the base of the bullet which can be 0.0015" larger than the actual bullet diameter.
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Re: Conflicting cartridge names

Post by Timb0 » 14 Sep 2014, 12:08 am

Well that put a dampener on that! Glad i only ask you guys a question and you didn't answer cause apparently you don't know anything!
I have to go do some reading.
Marlin XT22 .22lr, Ruger M77/22 .22wmr, Rem 7615 .223, Ruger M77 .223, Weatherby MarkV .243, Rem 700 VLS .243, Kimber Montana .270, Weatherby MarkV .270Wby mag, Rem 700 .308, Khan ATac 12ga.
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Re: Conflicting cartridge names

Post by Apollo » 14 Sep 2014, 12:12 am

No, I really know nothing...!!!!

Just been here for 65 years wasting my life and haven't killed myself yet...

I just like shooting....tiny objects.
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Re: Conflicting cartridge names

Post by Timb0 » 14 Sep 2014, 12:18 am

I didn't mean you just the other guys you freaked out at.

I guess know a lot doesn't give you a personality
Marlin XT22 .22lr, Ruger M77/22 .22wmr, Rem 7615 .223, Ruger M77 .223, Weatherby MarkV .243, Rem 700 VLS .243, Kimber Montana .270, Weatherby MarkV .270Wby mag, Rem 700 .308, Khan ATac 12ga.
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Re: Conflicting cartridge names

Post by Apollo » 14 Sep 2014, 12:22 am

I'm not stressing..... :lol: :lol: :lol:

;)

BTW....

If your "username" was "TinyTim" then I would be worried..... :shock:
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Re: Conflicting cartridge names

Post by 1290 » 16 Sep 2014, 8:33 am

Apollo wrote:I'm not stressing.....


Yes you are , you tend to get a bit worked up.... :D .

But yes, an aficionado will research, read, shoot ask.... don't expect to learn everything from a forum (or wiki) as you will get opinions for answers....
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Re: Conflicting cartridge names

Post by Bark » 16 Sep 2014, 11:03 am

deanp100 wrote:How would we go with a 308 win, 308 rem,308 savage, 308 British, 308 Russian, 308 wm all been different.


Could be colour coded? Winchester is blue, Remington is red, Savage is purple... :lol:
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Re: Conflicting cartridge names

Post by jennageit » 17 Sep 2014, 12:16 pm

Colour coding would certainly make my life easier.

For some reason I can't get any of this info to stick, so I'm just hoping the forum hangs around for a LONG time so that I can get a grip on all this.

My hubby hasn't used a firearm in many years, didn't do a great deal with them before that, and he still manages to make me feel really blonde at times. Keeping up with you guys is almost impossible, but it's very entertaining lol

Some info, however, is sticking.

Thanks guys. Back to reading and research for me!

Jenna
Back from a break, and ready to shoot again :)
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Re: Conflicting cartridge names

Post by Atter » 19 Sep 2014, 3:12 pm

jennageit wrote:Colour coding would certainly make my life easier.


Some do it.

Nosler make their Ballistic Tip bullets with different colours for each calibre.

Sako and some of the others do colour coded barrels for their interchangeable rimfire rifles, then one of the scope manufacturers makes a scope with 4 dials and the matching colours to making getting zeroed again easy.
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