FBI's Thoughts On 9mm

[Baldrick314]

A friend sent me this article on the FBI's justification for reverting to 9mm as a service round. Thought it might be an interesting read for you guys

http://looserounds.com/2014/09/21/fbi-9 ... -division/

[Korkt]

The ballistics gel tests read the opposite for me?

Trying hard not to sound like a mall ninja here but some common sense would suggest... You don't want over penetration and you do want rapid expansion for stopping power within a short depth.

9mm is the opposite of both of those according to the test...

[Baldrick314]

Further down in the text it says the FBI considers penetration of 12-18" scientifically valid. The penetration in those photos is only just past the 12" Mark. You've gotta remember that ballistic gel only simulates flesh not bone or body armour

[Korkt]

Yeah I get that. But if it penetrates further on gel, on average it must do the same in law enforcement use.

I can't see why it wouldn't?

[Tiiger]

This is key for the 9mm though.

The majority of FBI shooters are both FASTER in shot strings fired and more ACCURATE with shooting a 9mm Luger vs shooting a .40 S&W (similar sized weapons)

I expect they prize accuracy over just about everything else.

[Pilch]

"Handgun stopping power is simply a myth"

The mall ninjas and self defence fanatics will be going crazy over that statement

[Releb]

"Handgun stopping power is simply a myth"

The mall ninjas and self defence fanatics will be going crazy over that statement

Handguns are irrelevant. Only a full-automatic 7.62NATO is enough to protect your family.

If you don't have one you don't love them. That's what they tell me.

Sec... My tin foil hat has slipped off.

[Joom]

Quick! Fix it before the voices get in

[Baldrick314]

Yeah I get that. But if it penetrates further on gel, on average it must do the same in law enforcement use.

I can't see why it wouldn't?

You'd think so but I'm just gonna hope the FBI know what they're doing

[Baldrick314]

I expect they prize accuracy over just about everything else.

I suppose a through and through that hits an innocent is easier to explain than a miss that hits an innocent.

[Redwood]

Handguns are irrelevant. Only a full-automatic 7.62NATO is enough to protect your family.

And f*** your neighbours. They shouldn't have been standing within 200m of your place when you emptied that 30 round clip into a burglar.

[Norton]

easier to explain than a miss that hits an innocent.

No worries. You just charge the guy you were shooting at with hitting them.

Police kill bystander, charge their target with her murder.

[cavok]

Handgun stopping power is simply a myth

Handgun stopping power is no myth. Bad shot placement is NO myth, (this is why the person being shot was not stopped) by either LEO or anyone else, this includes the FBI and any other organisation one could name. In any high adrenalin charged incident, and believe me a shooting is just that, all fine motor skills go out the window, the "good guy" is so pumped up he forgets the most basic lessons taught.

Most LEO's and the FBI just do not shoot enough rounds downrange, they concentrate on other aspects of their job, the same as police. Watch some of the training videos from the some of the top counter terrorism organisations, they are on Utube, these guys practice a great deal, in very close quarter drills, and they still stuff up, as we all do.

As for actual stopping power, I will take a .45, or .40 over a 9mm any day, 1 shot will resolve the issue, mostly using +p or +p+. However in using a heavier calibre the chance for the 2nd or 3 shot is slower as the recoil of the firearm takes the firearm off target. However a good shooter can shoot numerous shots accurately in quick succession, but that is always on a range, funny about that. As for 7.62 round is the way to go, not in suburbia or in a close confined area, to difficult to conceal or get on target.

When shooting at a target, the centre of seen mass is the way to go, no head shots there, and some at 7 metres still miss, guess some need more practice.

[huccl]

Handgun stopping power is no myth.

The slightest amount of common sense would seem to easily disprove the 'stopping power is a myth" statement.

Ask anyone who says that if they'd rather be shot with a .22 pistol or a .45 ACP, how many votes do you think the .45 ACP is going to get

Shot placement, usage factors like recoil etc. all obviously play a part, as does power.

Not saying more is better, but it's stupid to say it's irrelevant.

[cavok]

Thanks for that, however there is more to my post than 6 words.

Reading the rest may assist is understanding my view.

[huccl]

Yeah... I read your post.

I didn't dismiss anything else you said, I was commenting on that one point in general. Not just your comment.