300 AAC Blackout fad over?

[bladeracer]

This is pretty good too I think.
http://www.caohc.org/UserFiles/file/Shot%20of%20Prevention%20extra%20handout.pdf

So, it seems .22LR does register around the 135-140dB region, although the second link doesn't specify the velocity.

[mickb]

Well we'll have to call it even then bladeracer. I was right about 22LR DB but as you said TB is pistol powder. For some reason I thought it was designed for lever guns first.

[bladeracer]

Well we'll have to call it even then bladeracer. I was right about 22LR DB but as you said TB is pistol powder. For some reason I thought it was designed for lever guns first.

Maybe, but I think you were more right than I was
Oddly, I am interested in this and downloaded an app to try to take some measurements, but I've totally forgotten about it while I've been shooting, perhaps one day I'll remember! CCI Quiet is 68dB so the plan is to find the right position for my phone that gives me 68dB with CCI Quiet, that's as close as I'm going to be able to calibrate it.

[wanneroo]

Blackout is still going strong and isn't vanishing any time soon.

As each year goes on, more development has been done so compared to 5-6 years ago, more knowledge and experience is out there to better exploit the cartridge.

[in2anity]

With regard to OP, the irony here is what we're really discussing is the long term availability of factory ammo. Of which, I might add, I literally have never purchased.

Meanwhile the handloader (i.e. all of us) can always just size their own blk cases using 223 brass, and then seat pretty much any 30cal pill. Barrel life on the 300blk is also exceptional. So I'm not exactly worried about my own future of shooting my 300blk rifle....

[JimTom]

I handload my own ammo however there seems to be plenty of factory ammo available in varying bullet weights and I live regional.
As In2anity said .223 brass easy to convert to 300AAC, but with good quality 300AAC ADI brass available for $65/100, why bother.
For those who like the subsonic thing, or for people like myself who use them supersonic as a close range hog stopper, I can’t fault it. Why shoot .308 using 40 odd grains of powder when you can use 17gn out of a blackout and achieve the same result, provided you are not shooting over large distances.
Yep I am a big fan of the blackout.

[in2anity]

Why shoot .308 using 40 odd grains of powder when you can use 17gn out of a blackout and achieve the same result.
Yep I am a big fan of the blackout.

Well there's no reason you couldn't achieve the same outcome with 30 odd grains of AR2206H or a faster powder perhaps better still AR2207. But it costs more though doesn't it. And the idea of that half case of powder sloshing around in the case, particularly in a field situation, is at the very least thought provoking...

Also, a handful of 300blk cartridges is notably more convenient than a handful of 308 cartridges.

[JimTom]

All very true Sir. My thoughts exactly.

[wanneroo]

If anything the amount of factory ammo available has grown over 5 years.

Can you finagle a 308 cartridge to produce the same results as various sub and supersonic 300 BLK rounds? Sure, but is that the point? In the end the big plus here is a 30 cal in a .223 sized package and things like bolts and magazines are all the same as .223. For those looking for a lighter, handier rifle to shoot out to 200-300 yards, this is better to carry around than a 308 rifle and ammo.

[bladeracer]

If anything the amount of factory ammo available has grown over 5 years.

Can you finagle a 308 cartridge to produce the same results as various sub and supersonic 300 BLK rounds? Sure, but is that the point? In the end the big plus here is a 30 cal in a .223 sized package and things like bolts and magazines are all the same as .223. For those looking for a lighter, handier rifle to shoot out to 200-300 yards, this is better to carry around than a 308 rifle and ammo.

In the US where you can still own AR platforms I'd agree, 300BLK offers more than just the twist-rate, but here where we can't use AR's anymore, the size of the round loses much of its relevance I think. Same for the other niche cartridges designed purely to be able to run through the AR. In bolt-actions that allow you to run the cartridge significantly longer than the spec 2.26" I would think you can really make the cartridge perform. I'm shooting .223Rem with 80gn bullets at 2.450" CoAL, which you can't run through an AR15 magazine. I should probably try loading some at 2.26" and see if there's much of a difference.

[wanneroo]

If anything the amount of factory ammo available has grown over 5 years.

Can you finagle a 308 cartridge to produce the same results as various sub and supersonic 300 BLK rounds? Sure, but is that the point? In the end the big plus here is a 30 cal in a .223 sized package and things like bolts and magazines are all the same as .223. For those looking for a lighter, handier rifle to shoot out to 200-300 yards, this is better to carry around than a 308 rifle and ammo.

In the US where you can still own AR platforms I'd agree, 300BLK offers more than just the twist-rate, but here where we can't use AR's anymore, the size of the round loses much of its relevance I think. Same for the other niche cartridges designed purely to be able to run through the AR. In bolt-actions that allow you to run the cartridge significantly longer than the spec 2.26" I would think you can really make the cartridge perform. I'm shooting .223Rem with 80gn bullets at 2.450" CoAL, which you can't run through an AR15 magazine. I should probably try loading some at 2.26" and see if there's much of a difference.

Certainly with 300 Blackout it was designed specifically for the AR and military applications and I'm not sure those that worked on it and got it approved by SAAMI ever thought it would be as big as it became commercially. So yes for us that can own ARs it is probably more a thing for us and also if we use a suppressor as well, which initially the cartridge was designed for a 9 inch AR barrel, suppressed.

But even here in the USA we've got plenty of people shooting 300 Blk in bolt actions too, so it's caught on there as well and is no longer just an AR cartridge. Like with anything, there is a flip side so it all depends what you want. Due to the woodland and mountain terrain I live in, I can't shoot more than 200 yards on my property, so 300 Blackout works great. Brass is easily obtainable and I use many of the same 308 bullets I use for 308 Win. In fact I have an excess of 308 Win/7.62 NATO ammo, probably an easy 5000-6000 rounds and I just don't shoot those rifles that much, mostly because 300 Blk suits the role just fine for most things.

[gunnnie]

I like the cartridge. It is efficient and fills a purpose.
What gets me is the number of shooters/armchair generals who sit there and pontificate over this-that-&-the-other! The naysayers ranting about the 300BO being a waste of space, why have it in a bolt action as it was designed for AR platforms & sub-sonic rounds. Can't do that here so why bother, better to just load down your 308/30-30 etc! s**ts me to tears sometimes.

I agree that if you only have a few rifles and you're trying to make the most of what you have to fill your shooting needs, that's fine. If you can't afford another rifle, that's fine. But unless you're going to work with the 'problem cartridge' with an open mind, then don't flap the gums for the sake of listening to yourself.

The 300BO has a purpose granted, but as is the nature of things, that definitive line in the sand is blurring. Why, because shooters/reloaders are tinkerers. We get the itch, that 'what if' question pops into our heads. There are also those who looked at the 300BO when it starting hitting the racks readily here in Australia, who were forward thinking and saw potential. I know of a few guys who have done exceedingly well in taking a lot of game with the cartridge not in a sub-sonic form either!

Plus, as you blokes have mentioned, with powder options, projectile development etc, new possibilities open up for any cartridge. For example, look at the 223Rem. When that round was released it was a military round, a lot of naysayers reckoned it would be useless as a hunting round. That changed pretty quick didn't it? Added to which the naysayers also ranted over the potential of the round in long range shooting, F-class etc. Look at the 223 now, better powders, better projectiles (long, very heavy for calibre) beeter understanding of ballistics and refile design to maximise and push the boundaries. Who would have thought eh? Bet the naysayers are avid devotees now!

As you guys have been discussing over the past few posts, there is a lot of possible aspects to consider and trial in the 300BO. When the 'airheads' get over themselves and stop to think, the blindfold is lifted and they begin to see potential, as you fellas have. All it takes is for one to stop and think for themselves for a change and ask what if!

I bought my Ruger 300BO for a specific purpose and since I've had it I have discovered that there is a lot more to appreciate with it. That specific purpose is now just one of several uses I now have/foresee for the rifle/cartridge. I don't think it will be dropped as obsolete/useless for quite some time to come.

[JimTom]

Spot on Gunnie. I also have a Ruger American Ranch in 300AAC which I have only shot supersonic. Works well on oinkers. I to am a bit over hearing the nay sayers rubbish the round because it isn't being used in an AR platform, subsonic blah blah.
Goes well supersonic and has fulfilled a role as a close range hog stopper.

[mickb]

Plus, as you blokes have mentioned, with powder options, projectile development etc, new possibilities open up for any cartridge. For example, look at the 223Rem. When that round was released it was a military round, a lot of naysayers reckoned it would be useless as a hunting round. That changed pretty quick didn't it?

I dont think the 223 was naysayed too much as it was developed from the older 222 remington. The 22-250 and 220 swift had been in use nearly 30 years by then too. People were pretty happy with what 22 centrefires did.

[in2anity]

I was just told by LGS that Winchester (Australia) aren’t importing (Winchester?) powders anymore? If that’s true, there goes all my Lilgun load development.

[JimTom]

I was just told by LGS that Winchester (Australia) aren’t importing (Winchester?) powders anymore? If that’s true, there goes all my Lilgun load development.

In my limited experience with Winchester powders, I have found it a little hard to come by, and generally requires a special order. Haven’t seen it on the shelf of any of my LGS.

[mickb]

Depressing news if so In2anity. I'm going to snavel some more WST and 231 just in case

[JimTom]

Depressing news if so In2anity. I'm going to snavel some more WST and 231 just in case

Can’t hurt mate

[gunnnie]

Bugger, bloody typical eh!
I use Lil'gun for my 300BO and also 22Hornet. I have 3 tubs in the locker.
Might do some chasing to verify that info. If it does pan out then I'll be chasing a few more tubs to keep loads running for a while.

[in2anity]

Time to go back to AR2205 me thinks. It appears AR2205 is most similar to IMR 4227? (compared with H4227/H110 and W296).

[Bill]

300 Blackout is sorta like the transgender equivalent of a hunting cartridge, not really flat shooting or deep penetration, sorta not quite a man yet not really a woman.....

Hey whatever floats ya boat I guess

[in2anity]

300 Blackout is sorta like the transgender equivalent of a hunting cartridge, not really flat shooting or deep penetration, sorta not quite a man yet not really a woman.....
Hey whatever floats ya boat I guess

Well that's a matter of perspective isn't it. The 300blk is pretty flat shooting compared to a 22lr. And it sure penetrates better than a 204.

Yet a 223 isn't flat shooting compared to a 17rem is it? Does that make the 223 transgender?

It's all relative...

[JimTom]

Bwahahaha, nicely put Sir.

[SCJ429]

Well that's a matter of perspective isn't it. The 300blk is pretty flat shooting compared to a 22lr. And it sure penetrates better than a 204.

Yet a 223 isn't flat shooting compared to a 17rem is it? Does that make the 223 transgender?

It's all relative...

In what circumstances does it penetrate better than a 204? Both would use fairly frangable bullets I assume.

If you love the case and have fun shooting it, then good for you. Like you said it is more capable than a 22lr and I have shot ten of thousands of rim fire rounds and had great fun doing it.

[bladeracer]

In what circumstances does it penetrate better than a 204? Both would use fairly frangable bullets I assume.

If you love the case and have fun shooting it, then good for you. Like you said it is more capable than a 22lr and I have shot ten of thousands of rim fire rounds and had great fun doing it.

300BLK uses the same bullets as .308 or .30-06, and heavier - they certainly penetrate better than .204.

[in2anity]

In what circumstances does it penetrate better than a 204?

Last I checked a 40gr pill spat at 4000fps fragments a tad more than say a 130gr 30cal pill spat at 2000fps. And that’s assuming your using the light pill... not sure where your going there sj...

[SCJ429]

I am wondering if you used a bullet with the same construction, how a 220 grain bullet going 1,010 fps was going to provide more penetration than a 40 grain bullet at 3,800 fps? Too lazy to do the maths myself.

[bladeracer]

I am wondering if you used a bullet with the same construction, how a 220 grain bullet going 1,010 fps was going to provide more penetration than a 40 grain bullet at 3,800 fps? Too lazy to do the maths myself.

You're comparing a subsonic 300BLK load with a high-velocity .204 load?
300BLK shoots high-velocity as well.

[SCJ429]

Yes, you are right. I was thinking of the earlier conversation regarding using heavy pills at subsonic speeds. I see the upper end of the 300 AAC performance is probably similar to a 30/30. My experiences using a 204 have seen it blowing things apart with very frangable bullets.

[wanneroo]

I was just told by LGS that Winchester (Australia) aren’t importing (Winchester?) powders anymore? If that’s true, there goes all my Lilgun load development.

My understanding is CFE BLK is relatively close to Lil Gun, so it shouldn't be too hard to switch in that direction. I'd grab a big jug of Lil Gun while you can.

I have a canister of CFE BLK sitting there right now and will start working on loads with it soon.