300 AAC Blackout fad over?

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Re: 300 AAC Blackout fad over?

Post by sandgroperbill » 05 Nov 2015, 11:39 am

Homer wrote:Maybe I should have said;
I personally can't see the purpose of the .300 AAC BO "In Australia", unless you are using it thru an AR or a rifle that utilises an AR type magazine!


I dunno. Horses for courses. I can see it playing a similar role to 30-30. I'm a bolt guy, levers are fine but I prefer bolts. Now, the .300blk can be chambered in a lightweight carbine or very short barrel, and taken through the thick bush and scrub and still perform well. With a short barrel, it would also serve well as a gun for a farmer's Ute or ATV, etc. It's certainly not for everyone, and yes, it would definitely make more sense and have a larger market in America, but it would still have its uses over here. Add to that that it may weall soon be standardized by several militaries, and it should make for readily available ammo. Even if it soesn't , itM's a simple job to form your own brass.

As for me, I don't currently need one or have a use for one and don't intend on getting one (at least, not for the foreseeable future) but doesn't mean someone else doesn't want one or have a need for one. And I can also see the odd shot out .223 getting rebarrelled to .300blk.
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Re: 300 AAC Blackout fad over?

Post by Homer » 05 Nov 2015, 4:31 pm

G'Day Fella's,

I agree SG-Bill, Horses for Courses!
But I would rather be carrying a rifle, with a cartridge in the magazine that fits the size of the action.
By this I mean a .300 AAC BO in an AR or maybe a Sako L461 bolt gun!
If I'm carrying around a .308 length actioned rifle, I'd prefer to have it chambered in .308Win!
That way, I can down load it with Sub-Sonic ammo or use standard Factory ammo and have a far more flexible and useful rifle!!!

Doh!
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Re: 300 AAC Blackout fad over?

Post by Zilla » 09 Nov 2015, 9:45 am

bear foot bowhunter wrote:Is that a suppressor?


Points for not calling it a "silencer" :lol:
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Re: 300 AAC Blackout fad over?

Post by Hugh » 01 Jul 2018, 6:20 pm

[/quote]

It was designed for military purposes which don't translate all that well to most civie applications. It's easy enough to make arguments why it's not the best choice hunting/target shooting but I'll still get a lot of jobs done, and if people want to spend there money on one and enjoy it who's to say they're wrong really.[/quote]
A lot if not most sporting rounds come from mil or variants.
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Re: 300 AAC Blackout fad over?

Post by southeast varmiter » 01 Jul 2018, 6:31 pm

300BO is niche but strong. Once you own one you’ll not sell it.
I run the hornady 190 gr subsonic. Sound like a 22 drops fallow at 50 yards dead as a hammer.
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Re: 300 AAC Blackout fad over?

Post by vmaxaust » 02 Jul 2018, 7:10 pm

southeast varmiter wrote:300BO is niche but strong. Once you own one you’ll not sell it.
I run the hornady 190 gr subsonic. Sound like a 22 drops fallow at 50 yards dead as a hammer.


300BO for me is wonderful. Ruger Ranch bolt with Holosun red dot and the accuracy is wonderful. I'm only using this for 100-150metres and it's simply much more fun than a 223. Will be making cast Hi Tek coated 140gr bullets for these for use at normal supersonic loads making costs per shot very reasonable and easier on the barrel.

Also have a Warwick with 300BO as well as a 223 barrel/receiver and only takes a few minutes to switch.

Don't knock the 300BO till you've owned one.

Those of you in Victoria there is an on line petition asking for suppressors to be legalised to reduce hearing loss for shooters. Suggest you fill in the petition. You never know one day they may allow us to shoot with suppressors. 300BO is especially useful for subsonic loads.

https://ssaavic.com.au/members-encourag ... 0-39072489
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Re: 300 AAC Blackout fad over?

Post by JimTom » 30 Jun 2019, 9:54 am

Old thread I know but there seemed to be a lot of people initially talking down the 300AAC. Be interested to see if anyone has changed their opinion. I own one and use it as a close range hog buster off a vehicle. In saying that I have shot pigs in the 80-90kg range at 200m with it. It is a great little rig. My .308 Rarely gets used nowadays.
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Re: 300 AAC Blackout fad over?

Post by JimTom » 30 Jun 2019, 10:19 am

Just to clarify my last sentence in the preceding post, I am not suggesting that my 300AAC has the same capability as my .308. Of course that cannot be physically possible or true.
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Re: 300 AAC Blackout fad over?

Post by SCJ429 » 30 Jun 2019, 10:30 am

If I had a 308 and I wanted a subsonic 30 cal I think I would make do with what I had. It is not hard to find a bullet that will do the job and slow it down a bit. But if the Blackout is what you want, then go for it. You are going to be hard pressed to wear out a barrel in this lifetime.
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Re: 300 AAC Blackout fad over?

Post by JimTom » 30 Jun 2019, 10:42 am

I agree with you regarding .308 and subsonic loads, I would just use my .308 however I actually haven’t experimented with subsonics yet. Have been shooting 125gn SST out of it at circa 1900FPS. I was actually going to buy a 7.62x39 however the blackout offers a greater range of projectile of course being .308 instead of .311
I use it as a close range pig rifle as opposed to subsonic suppressed mode for which I guess it is mostly used for in the USA.
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Re: 300 AAC Blackout fad over?

Post by mickb » 30 Jun 2019, 5:36 pm

Its not so much 308 vs 300 blackout for finding a subsonic load- either will, its how quiet you want to go. Not sure if you all have used suppressors but there is a considerable difference between light and heavy charges of powder in them. The Blackout has half the capacity and should also be small enough to make use of the faster pistol/shotgun burning powers with the right bullets, aka down into single digit loads of powder. You wont be doing that with a 308win.
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Re: 300 AAC Blackout fad over?

Post by bladeracer » 30 Jun 2019, 5:52 pm

mickb wrote:Its not so much 308 vs 300 blackout for finding a subsonic load- either will, its how quiet you want to go. Not sure if you all have used suppressors but there is a difference between a light and heavy charges of powder in them. The Blackout has half the capacity and should also be small enough to make use of the faster pistol/shotgun burning powers with the right bullets, aka down into single digit loads of powder. You wont be doing that with a 308win.


You can indeed get down to single-digit charges of Trailboss in .308Win, which you have to to go subsonic.
I've been down to 8gn loads in 8x57mm with subsonic 180gn bullets.
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Re: 300 AAC Blackout fad over?

Post by in2anity » 30 Jun 2019, 5:52 pm

I built up my RARR to shoot 3p practical comps on the 100m and 200m lines, with the occasional crossover into hunting. They are an extremely light, handy little rifle still with an adequate lop. It definitely holds its own on the 100m and 200m line. I'm yet to test it properly on the 300m line, but on those blustery days, at 300m I think you'd be up against it (vs true long range cartridges).

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I like it because it's economical. It only takes about 17grs of (fastest) rifle powder to fully fill the case which yields around 2100fps out of the 16" barrel (using a 125gr 30cal pill). With decent bullets, that load bucks the wind well enough at 100m and 200m.

Nevertheless, I reckon It's a finicky little cartridge. The brass around the mouth is thin compared to a 308w (after all it's stretched 223 brass). This means your up against it with regard to neck tension (compared to the 308w). And from my experience fast powders prefer tighter necks when compared to medium powder; you've always got to work harder to get fast powders consistently grouping.

I had to turn down my (collet) die's mandrel a fair bit to get it to group - even then, it's not really a sub-moa cartridge. I'd say It's probably more a 1 moa cartridge. I've got mine shooting about 1moa for 5 shots at 100m (when shooting from a chair). But I'm far from shooting 1moa from the elbows, so that suits me just fine :lol:
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Re: 300 AAC Blackout fad over?

Post by bladeracer » 30 Jun 2019, 5:57 pm

in2anity wrote:I built up my RARR to shoot 3p practical comps on the 100m and 200m lines, with the occasional crossover into hunting. They are an extremely light, handy little rifle with an adequate lop. It definitely holds its own at 100m and 200m line. I'm yet to test it properly on the 300m line, but on those blustery days, at 300m I think you'd be up against it (against true long range cartridges).

ruger.jpg


I like it because it's economical. It only takes about 18grs of (fast) rifle powder to fully fill the case which yields around 2100fps out of the 16" barrel. With decent bullets it bucks the wind well enough at 100m and 200m.

Nevertheless, I reckon It's a finicky little cartridge. The brass around the mouth is thin compared to a 308w (after all it's stretched 223 brass). This means your up against it with regard to neck tension (compared to the 308w). And from my experience fast powders prefer tight necks when compared to medium burns. And you've always got to work harder to get fast powders grouping IMO.

I had to turn down my (collet) die a fair bit to get it to group - even then, it's not really a sub-moa cartridge. I've got mine shooting about 1moa for 5 shots at 100m (if I'm shooting from a chair). But I'm far from shooting 1moa from the elbows, so that suits me fine :lol:


Are you using bullets that take advantage of the 7"-twist?
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Re: 300 AAC Blackout fad over?

Post by Tank » 30 Jun 2019, 6:08 pm

mickb wrote:Its not so much 308 vs 300 blackout for finding a subsonic load- either will, its how quiet you want to go. Not sure if you all have used suppressors but there is a difference between a light and heavy charges of powder in them. The Blackout has half the capacity and should also be small enough to make use of the faster pistol/shotgun burning powers with the right bullets, aka down into single digit loads of powder. You wont be doing that with a 308win.


One word....Trailboss.
8gr under 190gr CBE plain lead (Alox lubed) turns up 980fps. (Like shooting standard velocity .22lr....hearing safe)
300 BO/Whisper is all about the AR platform....
Had one, a Remington. It is nothing like as versatile as it’s made out to be and lasted less than twelve months in my safe as there’s really nothing special or magical about it.
Was introduced after Mogadishu as a more effective ‘stopper’ for Africans pinging off their heads and spawned masses of 5.56 COAL small, medium and big bores.
Realistically if it runs a brass case, centrefire primer, propellant and a projectile....there’s nothing new or miraculous about it....it’s all been done before.
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Re: 300 AAC Blackout fad over?

Post by mickb » 30 Jun 2019, 6:13 pm

bladeracer wrote:
mickb wrote:Its not so much 308 vs 300 blackout for finding a subsonic load- either will, its how quiet you want to go. Not sure if you all have used suppressors but there is a difference between a light and heavy charges of powder in them. The Blackout has half the capacity and should also be small enough to make use of the faster pistol/shotgun burning powers with the right bullets, aka down into single digit loads of powder. You wont be doing that with a 308win.


You can indeed get down to single-digit charges of Trailboss in .308Win, which you have to to go subsonic.
I've been down to 8gn loads in 8x57mm with subsonic 180gn bullets.


Blade racer did you read where I said faster pistol/shotgun powders early in the sentence? ;)

The blackout will be able to use loads of 60% that trailboss load, aka just a few grains of stuff like Win231, unique, CFE pistol, bullseye etc. As I said you wont be doing that in 308win. Pretty basic physics, its twice the capacity, and most these powders will not be safe to play with.
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Re: 300 AAC Blackout fad over?

Post by mickb » 30 Jun 2019, 6:41 pm

Tank wrote:
mickb wrote:Its not so much 308 vs 300 blackout for finding a subsonic load- either will, its how quiet you want to go. Not sure if you all have used suppressors but there is a difference between a light and heavy charges of powder in them. The Blackout has half the capacity and should also be small enough to make use of the faster pistol/shotgun burning powers with the right bullets, aka down into single digit loads of powder. You wont be doing that with a 308win.


One word....Trailboss.
8gr under 190gr CBE plain lead (Alox lubed) turns up 980fps. (Like shooting standard velocity .22lr....hearing safe)
300 BO/Whisper is all about the AR platform....
Had one, a Remington. It is nothing like as versatile as it’s made out to be and lasted less than twelve months in my safe as there’s really nothing special or magical about it.
Was introduced after Mogadishu as a more effective ‘stopper’ for Africans pinging off their heads and spawned masses of 5.56 COAL small, medium and big bores.
Realistically if it runs a brass case, centrefire primer, propellant and a projectile....there’s nothing new or miraculous about it....it’s all been done before.


Read my reply to Blade racer mate. Well aware of TB, comment related to the fast burning pistol/shotgun powders which in a small case like the Blackout you can also play with, as its same capacity as some pistol cases. Down to half that trailboss load, half the noise, more loading options( AS-30N, As350N, win WST, Win 231, CFE pistol, Unique, Red Dot, etc). Several of them also use lighter charges for more velocity than TB. You can't do that with 308win.

There is a difference between chasing "anything subsonic" and tuning in on low noise and accuracy in small cases. Its another entire sport. Look at the difference between match 22LR and 22LR quiets, or 357 at 1050 and 850fps after all. Supressors pick up this difference as well, they don't just "silence stuff"

Lastly 22LR standard is not hearing safe mate.Feel free not to use hearing protection, i hardly did in the day either lol, but maybe not the best idea claiming that on a public forum, its 130DB-140DB, and thats into hearing damage
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Re: 300 AAC Blackout fad over?

Post by bladeracer » 30 Jun 2019, 6:46 pm

mickb wrote:Blade racer did you read where I said faster pistol/shotgun powders early in the sentence? ;)

The blackout will be able to use loads of 60% that trailboss load, aka just a few grains of stuff like Win231, unique, CFE pistol, bullseye etc. As I said you wont be doing that in 308win. Pretty basic physics, its twice the capacity, and most these powders will not be safe to play with.


Yep, I was referring to your incorrect statement that the BLK being smaller-capacity allows you to load down to single-digit charges, which you won't be doing with .308 - you can do that with .308. It's worth noting that ADI actually list a 10gn TB starting load for .308Win, which is under their own "60% capacity rule"...again.
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Re: 300 AAC Blackout fad over?

Post by bladeracer » 30 Jun 2019, 6:56 pm

mickb wrote:Read my reply to Blade racer above mate. Well aware of TB. My comment related to the fast burning pistol/shotgun powders which in a small case like the blackout you can also play with. Down to half that trailboss load, half the noise, more loading options( AS-30N, As350N, win WST, Win 231, CFE pistol, Unique, Red Dot, etc). Several of them also use lighter charges for more velocity than TB. You can't do that with 308win.

I seem to spend a lot of time explaining this to supersonic hunters, there is a different between chasing "anything subsonic" and tuning in on low noise and accuracy in small cases. Its it's own sport. There is a big difference between match 22LR and 22LR quiets, or 357 at 1050 and 850fps after all. Supressors pick up this difference as well, they don't just "silence stuff"

Lastly 22LR standard is not hearing safe mate.Feel free not to use hearing protection yourself but maybe not the best idea claiming that on a public forum, its 130DB-140DB, and thats into hearing damage


I haven't tried pistol powders in the larger rifle cartridges so I can't comment on those, but TB does indeed "top out" on velocity, regardless of how much more powder you jam into the case. In 8x57mm I get virtually the same velocity for any charge from 14gn to 19gn of Trailboss behind a 180gn cast bullet - around 1400fps. Similar in the .243, but I did find a little better accuracy by continuing to increase the charge without gaining more velocity. In 7mm-08 8.5gn of TB gives me 920fps with a 145gn jacketed soft-point.

Standard velocity is quieter than that, 130-140dBa is for high-velocity .22LR. I wear hearing protection for supersonic .22LR, but not for anything subsonic. I would wear it if I was shooting a fair amount of hotter stuff but not for a few groups. I was shooting some 12ga. 28gm 1300fps loads the other day without hearing protection and it didn't make my ears ring at all. I think it's still a free country where we get to make those choices for ourselves. If I have people with me though, they get hearing protection. I was surprised when I attended a .22LR Benchrest shoot that they didn't require hearing protection.
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Re: 300 AAC Blackout fad over?

Post by Tank » 30 Jun 2019, 6:59 pm

Mickb....22lr standard from a rifle IS hearing safe all day everyday from a rifle in the open.
Suppression is a far greater factor in quietness than the charge used. The appropriate volume of the suppressor will render hi velocity centrefire ammo hearing safe....let alone subsonics.
But I’m not picking a brawl.
It’s a forum. We don’t have to all agree.
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Re: 300 AAC Blackout fad over?

Post by mickb » 30 Jun 2019, 7:30 pm

bladeracer wrote:
mickb wrote:
Yep, I was referring to your incorrect statement that the BLK being smaller-capacity allows you to load down to single-digit charges,

No you are attributing a context to make your argument applicable. My comment that you wont be loading down to single digits "with fast burning pistol/shotguns powders" like those used in 300AAC still holds. The fast burning/pistol shotgun powder I have now posted twice.

I can only apply a context and then clarify if there is a misunderstanding. Anything else is how badly someone wants to use a comment for a launch pad on semantics.;)
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Re: 300 AAC Blackout fad over?

Post by mickb » 30 Jun 2019, 7:43 pm

Tank wrote:Mickb....22lr standard from a rifle IS hearing safe all day everyday from a rifle in the open.
Suppression is a far greater factor in quietness than the charge used. The appropriate volume of the suppressor will render hi velocity centrefire ammo hearing safe....let alone subsonics.
But I’m not picking a brawl.
It’s a forum. We don’t have to all agree.


Tank, sorry its not about brawling, its just that you are plain wrong and this is dangerous misconception you are under.

22LR standard is not classed as hearing safe anywhere, in the open or enclosed, though a case could be made for when its used in 28" + barrels when the pressure and velocity has dropped.

Anything else no way. Ask any range officer in the world. Ask anyone taking cadets for 22LR shooting in the world if they say "hell kids don't wear hearing protection for the standard stuff, bare ears only today" :?

Do you also notice no company classes their standard vel products as hearing safe? They only claim it for quiets and caps under 800fps...

As to your comments on Suppressors, thanks I've used them. The charge has an impact on the noise as well.
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Re: 300 AAC Blackout fad over?

Post by bladeracer » 30 Jun 2019, 7:48 pm

mickb wrote:No you are attributing a context to make your argument applicable. My comment that you wont be loading down to single digits "with fast burning pistol/shotguns powders" like those used in 300AAC still holds. The fast burning/pistol shotgun powder I have now posted twice.

I can only apply a context and then clarify if there is a misunderstanding. Anything else is how badly someone wants to use a comment for a launch pad on semantics.;)


Isn't Trailboss a "fast-burning pistol powder"? It's faster than Unique.
I think any confusion stems from your poorly-worded post.
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Re: 300 AAC Blackout fad over?

Post by in2anity » 30 Jun 2019, 7:49 pm

bladeracer wrote:Are you using bullets that take advantage of the 7"-twist?

Nah I'm yet to experiment with that Blade, and may never. I didn't really buy the rifle for that reason. And that's actually a negative - If I had my way I'd slow the twist and shorten the throat to match the shorter varmint style 30cal pills. The jump to lands must currently be bretty massive...

With respect to the other talk about TB - I've found almost a full case of TB under a 150gr hunting pill to be very accurate in my 308. Around 14gr from memory. Definitely supersonic, but far from being ear-splitting. You can pop the odd one of those off without hearing protection and too much discomfort. That's all I need for expansion under 100m. It's a good roo/fox/goat load.
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Re: 300 AAC Blackout fad over?

Post by bladeracer » 30 Jun 2019, 7:54 pm

mickb wrote:Tank, sorry its not about brawling, its just that you are plain wrong and this is dangerous misconception you are under.

22LR standard is not classed as hearing safe anywhere, in the open or enclosed, though a case could be made for when its used in 28" + barrels when the pressure and velocity has dropped.

Anything else no way. Ask any range officer in the world. Ask anyone taking cadets for 22LR shooting in the world if they say "hell kids don't wear hearing protection for the standard stuff, bare ears only today" :?

Do you also notice no company classes their standard vel products as hearing safe? They only claim it for quiets and caps under 800fps...

As to your comments on Suppressors, thanks I've used them. The charge has an impact on the noise as well.


I'm not sure about this.
It seems to be that 110dB regular exposure for more than sixty-seconds causes permanent hearing damage. Long or repeated exposures above 85dB can cause hearing damage.
In Australia it seems to be that no employee can be exposed to over 140dB, at all. But up to 85dB is fine over an entire eight-hour shift.
I'm thinking standard velocity ammo is just fine, except for long and prolonged exposure.
https://www.safeworkaustralia.gov.au/noise
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Re: 300 AAC Blackout fad over?

Post by bladeracer » 30 Jun 2019, 8:00 pm

in2anity wrote:Nah I'm yet to experiment with that Blade, and may never. I didn't really buy the rifle for that reason. And that's actually a negative - If I had my way I'd slow the twist and shorten the throat to match the shorter varmint style 30cal pills. The jump to lands must currently be bretty massive...

With respect to the other talk about TB - I've found almost a full case of TB under a 150gr hunting pill to be very accurate in my 308. Around 14gr from memory. Definitely supersonic, but far from being ear-splitting. You can pop the odd one of those off without hearing protection and too much discomfort. That's all I need for expansion under 100m. It's a good roo/fox/goat load.


Have you never measured the throat? My .223 Predator is long, letting me load ELD bullets out to 2.450", way longer than .223Rem ammunition specs of .2.260".

I think the only thing 300BLK has going for it is the twist-rate, if you don't need it then a .308 is a much better choice, in my opinion. You can shoot both of them subsonic with bullets up to about 180gn. I've been up to 17.5gn of TB behind a 145gn jacketed bullet in 7mm-08 for 1550-ish fps. I shoot those without hearing protection.
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Re: 300 AAC Blackout fad over?

Post by SCJ429 » 30 Jun 2019, 8:14 pm

CCI claim their Quiet ammunition to be 68 Db. That is not bad.
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Re: 300 AAC Blackout fad over?

Post by in2anity » 30 Jun 2019, 8:15 pm

bladeracer wrote:I think the only thing 300BLK has going for it is the twist-rate, if you don't need it then a .308 is a much better choice, in my opinion.

Yeah I think I’d tend to agree - I’ve got the collet die with an undersized mandrel for the 308 now and it’s equally as trivial to load for.

I put it to you though Blade - what do you think the most optimal way to achieve say 2100fps with a 125gr pill is in the 308? Btw half cases of powder don’t sit well with me :?:
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Re: 300 AAC Blackout fad over?

Post by mickb » 30 Jun 2019, 9:04 pm

bladeracer wrote:I'm not sure about this.
It seems to be that 110dB regular exposure for more than sixty-seconds causes permanent hearing damage. Long or repeated exposures above 85dB can cause hearing damage.
In Australia it seems to be that no employee can be exposed to over 140dB, at all. But up to 85dB is fine over an entire eight-hour shift.
I'm thinking standard velocity ammo is just fine, except for long and prolonged exposure.
https://www.safeworkaustralia.gov.au/noise


mate 'thinking something is fine' is pretty poor position to have on a safety related subject. Im guessing your not an OHS officer :D

Its generally agreed 135-140 is the 'threshold of pain' for impulse noise, where instant damage can occur. Different countries have different levels advised, but they generally agree hearing loss will occur lower than that through repeated exposures> plenty of articles out there.

Most the 22LR standard figures I have seen are about 135- 141 DB , generally the lower figure if barrel is longer.

Probably why the companies don't print 'hearing safe' on it, only the actual hearing safe stuff. ;)

I guess I am a bit careful having had hearing damage from the army and also reading into it. Most the experts can't agree we can even measure sound impulse accurately. Also its not as simple as 140DB = xyz damage. Different types of noise destroy different frequency hairs in the ear. Shotguns hit lower freqs for example, rifles hit higher freqs.

But I am a little suprised people want to ride this margin of risk at all. Ask on a US forum and see what the reaction is. I don't think I have seen many ranges recommend new starters go 'bare eared ' shooting with 22LR :crazy: .

And Tank, aside from the 22LR/safety side of things anyway, the 8 grain load of trailboss you compared it to is going to be a lot louder than that anyway.
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Re: 300 AAC Blackout fad over?

Post by mickb » 30 Jun 2019, 9:18 pm

bladeracer wrote:
mickb wrote:No you are attributing a context to make your argument applicable. My comment that you wont be loading down to single digits "with fast burning pistol/shotguns powders" like those used in 300AAC still holds. The fast burning/pistol shotgun powder I have now posted twice.

I can only apply a context and then clarify if there is a misunderstanding. Anything else is how badly someone wants to use a comment for a launch pad on semantics.;)


Isn't Trailboss a "fast-burning pistol powder"? It's faster than Unique.
I think any confusion stems from your poorly-worded post.


Ah the nature of our misunderstanding reveals itself. I didn't include trailboss a fast burning pistol/shotun powder for this discussion( though it was designed as such I agree) but as a special purpose powder. :thumbsup:
mickb
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