What does "flat shooting" mean to you

[grainweight]

I've lost which topic it was now, but I think it was Warrigul said someone was telling him .308 was useless to hunt with because of it's "rainbow trajectory".

Got me thinking... What, in your personal opinion, do you consider a flat shooting cartridge.

If zero'd at 100, how much drop will you accept at 200m?

[Chronos]

To me there is just flatter shooting. .22mag is flatter than. .22lr, .243 is flatter than .308 and .270 is flatter than 30-06. But to that a .308 shooting 130gr could be considered flat compared to the same cartridge shooting 165gr

I suppose you could use a scale to determine what's could be considered flat, maybe sub 3" drop at 200m from a 100m zero

Remember drop is simply a factor of time to target, gravity is constant so get it there quicker and you'll have less drop

Chronos

[Noisydad]

From a long(ish) range black powder shooters point of view if a bullet hits it's target at ANY angle less than 90 degrees it's a flat shooter!

[mausermate]

If zero'd at 100, how much drop will you accept at 200m?

shooting pigs at 50m I'd put up with heaps, shooting foxes at 200m I want very little.
308 is a great short range hunting round, I like it a lot but I don't use it for long range varmint hunting, I use a 22/250 for that, nor is it great for 400 meter Deer or Goat Hunting, I use a 270 for that.

Horses for courses.

[North East]

Nothing shoots flat. Every projectile follows a ballistic path.

[yoshie]

When you have to take into account bullet drop. If you were to take a shot at an animal at extended range, at what point will you have to hold over. A 308 shooting 165g bullets will not shoot as flat as a 270 shooting 130g bullets, at some range with the 308 you will need to aim high, 250m maybe? The 270 will shoot further before you need to aim high

[Timb0]

For me I like to think if a particular cartridge shoots within 6" rise and fall out to 300yrds than its quite flat shooting. My .270 loads ( and how my rifle is zeroed) shoots about 2" high at 100yrds and drop about 4.5"@300yrds. I would say that the trajectory might be a bit higher at 150yrds but not much. That's close and is fairly flat to me. It means if a pig or bigger animal is within that range I don't have to worry much about correcting for drop.
My .243 with 70gr BKs shoots flatter and my .308 with 165sst doesn't shoot as flat.
Most cartridges drop off fairly hard after 300yrds but majority of people shoot things at 200yrds or less. Perfect for a .308

[bigfellascott]

To me it's a trajectory that isn't like a rainbow! more straight line less curve as it were.

[MeccaOz]

For me I like to think if a particular cartridge shoots within 6" rise and fall out to 300yrds than its quite flat shooting. My .270 loads ( and how my rifle is zeroed) shoots about 2" high at 100yrds and drop about 4.5"@300yrds. I would say that the trajectory might be a bit higher at 150yrds but not much. That's close and is fairly flat to me. It means if a pig or bigger animal is within that range I don't have to worry much about correcting for drop.
My .243 with 70gr BKs shoots flatter and my .308 with 165sst doesn't shoot as flat.
Most cartridges drop off fairly hard after 300yrds but majority of people shoot things at 200yrds or less. Perfect for a .308

Thats how I do it too, but I use a 4" width ( it was just explained to me with 4" not that I shoot any better than you lol ). But mastering Kentucky windage is a big help. as for where to stop ... Well if you only have 100 pounds of energy left at 400 yards, your not exactly gunna try and kill a buffalo, well i wouldnt..

[RoginaJack]

Flat shooting to me is not having to walk up and down hills!

Cheers,

[MeccaOz]

Flat shooting to me is not having to walk up and down hills!

Cheers,

LOL, I'll pay that !

[bigfellascott]

Flat shooting to me is not having to walk up and down hills!

Cheers,

That's my kinda shooting too these days If I can't drive it it ain't worth shooting!

[Bennybigbores]

Too me flat shooting is the varied minimum to maximum distance you or your rifle are capable and comfortable shooting without massive hold over/under, eg know my 17hmr shoots 1/4" high at 50yrd zero at 100yard and 1/4" low at 120m and beyond that it drops away quick and looses heaps of energy but I would consider that a very flat shooter out to 120yrd, where as my .243 1/2" high at 50y, 3/4 high 100y, zero 200y, 1 3/4" low at 250y and 5" low at 300y.
Both very different trajectories and effective ranges but I would consider both flat shooting for a given range and purpose, it relative to many things, knowing your range,knowing your trajectory, and what energy needed at those ranges, for me basically when the hold over when hunting is over 12" consistently, time to up the horsepower to a better trajectory,...... geese I rabbled on a bit there , may as well finish of with the usual ..........243 rocks ...........!!!!

[MeccaOz]

Too me flat shooting is the varied minimum to maximum distance you or your rifle are capable and comfortable shooting without massive hold over/under, eg know my 17hmr shoots 1/4" high at 50yrd zero at 100yard and 1/4" low at 120m and beyond that it drops away quick and looses heaps of energy but I would consider that a very flat shooter out to 120yrd, where as my .243 1/2" high at 50y, 3/4 high 100y, zero 200y, 1 3/4" low at 250y and 5" low at 300y.
Both very different trajectories and effective ranges but I would consider both flat shooting for a given range and purpose, it relative to many things, knowing your range,knowing your trajectory, and what energy needed at those ranges, for me basically when the hold over when hunting is over 12" consistently, time to up the horsepower to a better trajectory,...... geese I rabbled on a bit there , may as well finish of with the usual ..........243 rocks ...........!!!!

Nailed it ! ...
IMO the 308 is a relatively flat shooter too, granted not along the lines of a 243 22-250 or 270 but trajectories are are pretty stable and if you know your load, even more so. Different beasts for different roles mate.

[Westy]

Who cares if you got a rainbow ifyour any sort of shooter you will know your rifles abilities at 2\3\4\5 hundred "METERS" (for you Mauser mate) and be able to adjust quickly to deal with the range!!!! IMHO

[mausermate]

Who cares if you got a rainbow ifyour any sort of shooter you will know your rifles abilities at 2\3\4\5 hundred "METERS" (for you Mauser mate) and be able to adjust quickly to deal with the range!!!! IMHO

thanks mate!

[Jack V]

It is far more complicated than just having a flat trajectory , you also need acceptable grouping accuracy and familiarity with your trajectory .
Just having a flat trajectory is of no use if the groups are like dinner plates and you are shooting at small targets .
Anyone who says that a 308W is no good for hunting has no clue or is just revving up a subject . If you know your trajectory well and know how to adjust for elevation then the trajectory shape is less important but the flatter it is the less you have to correct . However for the varmint style shooter who aims at small targets at average ranges a flat shooting cartridge is usually better when multiple targets may be engaged in quick succession . It is much easier to judge a small holdover than a very big one. This is where Mil dot / hash reticules and external turrets come in and assist with holdover judgements. Some like to do all their elevation correction on the turrets and some like to hold over with the mil dots . Most like to use the elevation turret and hold off for wind on the reticule.

[wrenchman]

what it means to me is a gun with a far point of zero 270 and 7 mag are real good

[Lorgar]

My 120gr 7mm load when zeroed at 100m has about 2.5" drop at 200m.

That's plenty flat IMO. Makes no difference for game, foxes etc. On the smallest target of a rabbit at 200m I can still aim at the rabbit rather than the air above it which is easy.

[Lorgar]

Er that's 7mm-08, not 7mm Rem Mag I should say too.

[North East]

My .30-06 shoots very flat….at 50 meters.

[MeccaOz]

Im agreeing with wrenchman

[handofcod]

I've never thought if 308 as a rainbow trajectory but I does depend on grain weight of the projectile I guess. A 30-06 shooting 220gr round nose would probably qualify as "rainbow" but then 150gr spire point wouldn't.... Swings and round abouts.

[mausermate]

I would not go so far as to say the 308 is no good as a hunting cartridge, it is, after all, possibly the most widely used hunting cartridge in the world, they can't all be wrong, but I will say that there are many better cartridges and "no" I am not trying to rev things up. You might think I have "no clue" bully for you.
As I said in my previous post "horses for courses" and IMO you need to match the cartridge to the application. Yes, we do not all have the funds to place an arsenal in our gun room to match every hunting situation we may encounter but I have found that using alternatives brings a whole new meaning to hunting as the 308, in many situations is left wanting. Particularly here is AUS.

Further to that, Mil dot and other tactical reticules, exposed and ballistic turrets and other gizmos that have turned up on our shop shelves these days do nothing for me. Most of the people I know that have them, can't use them, find their turret has been moved in the field, forget the settings or spent half an hour working out the distance to the animal, got their chart out fiddled around and the animal has run away.
If I may offer any advice to those that are looking to purchase a hunting rifle and are interested in good hunting, bagging your quarry and want to know something about trajectory........ you need a flat shooting cartridge (sorry, the 308 is not a flat shooting cartridge), match the cartridge to the animals you wish to hunt to provide a clean effective kill every time, don't load yourself up with gadgets, keep it simple and concentrate on the hunt and pulling a good shot. Sight your rifle to provide the best "point blank range" for your cartridge so that you aim dead on the animals vitals every time. If it is out of your maximum PBR, try and get a little closer. That is what "hunting" is all about. IMVHO.

[Chronos]

Sight your rifle to provide the best "point blank range" for your cartridge so that you aim dead on the animals vitals every time. If it is out of your maximum PBR, try and get a little closer

i think thats the key, i hear people saying they zero their rifle at 100m, i am of the opinion that if you are utilizing your rifles at ranges from short to medium, say 250-300m, particularly with a flat shooting cartridge like a .243 or .204R a 200m zero may be more appropriate

zerod at a a longer distance means you can hold dead on from the muzzle out to over 250m and the trajectory never moves more that 1.5" above or below your line of sight leaving you with more focus to spend on other things.

there's a lot to be said for a quality 3-9X40 scope with hunting turrets, set and forget

Chronos

*edited after rereading

[North East]

When it comes to hunting in my area a shot is rarely taken beyond 100 yards due to the nature of the terrain and dense vegetation.

So a .30-06 suits me just fine with 180gn projectiles, hits hard and at that distance shoots flat. I don't give a damn what it does beyond that and probably would not take the shot anyway as I use an Aimpoint 1X red dot.

[Warrigul]

Lots of good answers, honestly keep it simple and the range as short as possible like a couple of others have said.

You know my old .303 shoots a bit high at 100 but a shot aimed at the spine above the boiler room is going to be a solid hit on something past 150 out to about 300 max(and when I pace it out the distance is always different to what I estimated in the heat of the moment- EVERY SINGLE TIME) and how do I know that? I haven't altered the settings in years. .

MM & NE pretty much nailed it.

[Jack V]

The 308 is a flat shooting cartridge compared to a 44-40 . It's all relative to what you are comparing too. The only game in Australia that a 308 is a bit under gunned for at normal ranges is Buff and many are taken anyway with the 308 , 303 even the 30-30 . I think the bully for you is the bully s**t !

[mausermate]

The 308 is a flat shooting cartridge compared to a 44-40 . It's all relative to what you are comparing too. The only game in Australia that a 308 is a bit under gunned for at normal ranges is Buff and many are taken anyway with the 308 , 303 even the 30-30 . I think the bully for you is the bully s**t !

you grandstand that someone has not clue about stuff because they disagree with you and accuse them of saying stuff just to rev things up. What do you call that?
crack me up

[Jack V]

Stop playing the victim fool you stated bull s**t from the start .