Copper washed lead projectiles

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Copper washed lead projectiles

Post by Wheelbarrow » 03 Nov 2014, 11:26 am

One for the fellers casting their own bullets with this one (I think?)

Copper washing... Is this the home workshop version of a copper jacket?

Why go the extra step over just using your regular cast lead bullets?
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Re: Copper washed lead projectiles

Post by MeccaOz » 04 Nov 2014, 7:34 pm

I went and asked a bloke who's in the know about such things. He say's it lets you get away with using more lead in your projectile alloy without the leading. I know nothing about it, so take that as far as you like mate.
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Re: Copper washed lead projectiles

Post by cavok » 04 Nov 2014, 8:25 pm

In pistol shooting copper wash are extremely popular, a little more 10% expensive than coated. Also copper jacketed are banned on most if not all pistol ranges as they splatter back, also they require more powder 5% to make the same muzzle velocity. Great at our maximum muzzle velocities around 1400-1500 f/sec.

I was told that copper wash begin to break up over 1800-2000 f/sec, the wash comes off and major leading results. Hence most Sierra and other rifle projectiles are coated, much thicker than the wash.
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Re: Copper washed lead projectiles

Post by hootshoot » 06 Nov 2014, 12:56 pm

cavok wrote:also they require more powder 5% to make the same muzzle velocity. Great at our maximum muzzle velocities around 1400-1500 f/sec.


Why's it great it needs more powder to get the same velocity?
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Re: Copper washed lead projectiles

Post by cavok » 06 Nov 2014, 2:18 pm

The need for approx. 5% more of the powder to make same velocity is Power Factor in certain pistol sports.

To make minor power factor a round is put through a chronograph and its velocity tested. It must make P/F 125. Normally this is obtained but as copper wash projectiles have more drag on the barrel, more gas escapes down the side as a copper wash does not squeeze into the rifling.

Hence if a shooter knows they can make power factor using 3.6 grains of AP50, and a 125 grn coated projectile, to make the same in copper wash they load 3.7+/- grns.
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Re: Copper washed lead projectiles

Post by MeccaOz » 06 Nov 2014, 3:52 pm

Knows her stuff :D
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Re: Copper washed lead projectiles

Post by Chronos » 06 Nov 2014, 5:42 pm

Actually it's wrong, at least in part. The copper actually acts as a lubricant. It reduces the drag or friction in the barrel. This reduces chamber pressures and that means less velocity. That's why you can increase the powder charge and have to to recover the lost velocity.

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Re: Copper washed lead projectiles

Post by Warrigul » 06 Nov 2014, 7:18 pm

Chronos wrote:Actually it's wrong, at least in part. The copper actually acts as a lubricant. It reduces the drag or friction in the barrel. This reduces chamber pressures and that means less velocity. That's why you can increase the powder charge and have to to recover the lost velocity.

Chronos



Not really.

Copper is slipperier than lead but most handgun projectiles are coated in a very slippery paint as a lube which aids their travel down the bore with minimum leading and friction(as evidenced by recovered projectiles).

With copper wash projys the wash tends to drag the bore, they do feed slightly better(apparently, I never noticed any difference) but many copper washed projectiles are still waxed to avoid leading(think .22 or .22 magnum).

Both types generally obdurate well(expand and fill the bore- or engrave to the rifling).

The instance you are thinking of is copper washed steel projectiles such as in military ammo, in this case the copper's purpose is mainly anti corrosion but also a degree of lubrication.
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Re: Copper washed lead projectiles

Post by Chronos » 06 Nov 2014, 7:38 pm

Thanks

I was mainly referring to the difference between cast lead bullets and the same bullets copper washed. The copper wash removes the need for messy "wet" coatings that can build up around the slide in auto pistols and Yes there are some very good. " paint" coatings. I'm about to start testing some top score 240 gr. I've previously found the gold "paint" coating on top score bullets to be among the best.

I've seen the same resulting velocity drop when shooters are switching from copper jacketed to an identical bullet coated in moly or hex boron. Pressures are reduced due to the friction reducing coating and powder loads need to be increased to recover the "lost" velocity, usually the velocity is being increased to keep the load in the accuracy node for that barrel.

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Re: Copper washed lead projectiles

Post by cavok » 06 Nov 2014, 10:02 pm

As a matter of interest, the 240grn top score you want to use, for trialing, in what pistol, as you will find in rifles the velocity may burn off the coating and very badly foul tour rifle barrel, around 1400-1500f/s is it.
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Re: Copper washed lead projectiles

Post by Chronos » 07 Nov 2014, 6:53 am

It will be in a .44magnum, one load for both revolver and lever gun. I'll be looking for a load around the 1000fps mark out of the lever using AS30 as a general plinking load

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Re: Copper washed lead projectiles

Post by hootshoot » 07 Nov 2014, 7:50 am

Thanks for the explanations guys.
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Re: Copper washed lead projectiles

Post by petemacsydney » 17 Jan 2018, 8:28 pm

Chronos wrote:It will be in a .44magnum, one load for both revolver and lever gun. I'll be looking for a load around the 1000fps mark out of the lever using AS30 as a general plinking load

Chronos


Hey Chronos, long time no chat. interested to hear what your load recipe was for this one? (lever gun general plinking round in 44 mag - powder type and grains, bullet brand, weight etc)
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Re: Copper washed lead projectiles

Post by Gamerancher » 17 Jan 2018, 10:43 pm

6.4 grains of AS 30 is a "go to" load in .44 Mag. Rifle.
Also 19gr 2205 or 7gr of Trailboss.
200 or 240gr cast bullets.
All found to be mild and accurate to 100m ( minute of 1/2 size ram ) in at least 6 different rifles that I've loaded it for.
( 2 x '94 Winchesters, 2 x Rossi '92 Win copies and two Marlins. )
Have also used the Trailboss load in 2 different .44-40's.
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Re: Copper washed lead projectiles

Post by petemacsydney » 18 Jan 2018, 4:16 pm

Gamerancher wrote:6.4 grains of AS 30 is a "go to" load in .44 Mag. Rifle.
Also 19gr 2205 or 7gr of Trailboss.
200 or 240gr cast bullets.
All found to be mild and accurate to 100m ( minute of 1/2 size ram ) in at least 6 different rifles that I've loaded it for.
( 2 x '94 Winchesters, 2 x Rossi '92 Win copies and two Marlins. )
Have also used the Trailboss load in 2 different .44-40's.


thx!

always been perplexed as to how one powder needs so much more grains than another? I suppose the AS30 must be a lot more powerful in its discharge?
i had looked up some data on 2205, but might check out AS30 as well
is AS30 heaps more expensive than 2205? if not i guess it must also reduce the cost of the reloads then as you need less? :-)
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Re: Copper washed lead projectiles

Post by Gamerancher » 19 Jan 2018, 5:31 am

Comes down to burning rates.
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Re: Copper washed lead projectiles

Post by Sarco » 21 Jan 2018, 11:28 am

By copper washed, are you talking about the copper electroplated projectiles, eg. Berry's, Frontier, X-Treme etc.?

This is because I would have called them two different coatings.
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Re: Copper washed lead projectiles

Post by bladeracer » 21 Jan 2018, 1:03 pm

petemacsydney wrote:always been perplexed as to how one powder needs so much more grains than another? I suppose the AS30 must be a lot more powerful in its discharge?
i had looked up some data on 2205, but might check out AS30 as well
is AS30 heaps more expensive than 2205? if not i guess it must also reduce the cost of the reloads then as you need less? :-)



Burn rate. Trailboss is way less dense than most normal rifle powders, a case-full of Trailboss will weigh about a third of the same case-full of AR2206H for example.
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Re: Copper washed lead projectiles

Post by bladeracer » 21 Jan 2018, 1:04 pm

Sarco wrote:By copper washed, are you talking about the copper electroplated projectiles, eg. Berry's, Frontier, X-Treme etc.?

This is because I would have called them two different coatings.


No, think .22LR copper-washed bullets compared to Berry's electro-plated bullets - two different things.
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