Something between 12gauge and 410bore

[greenonion]

Is there such a thing?

12gauge has some bang to it but 410 is pretty nothing.

And there is no common shotgun cartridge in a middle size?

Surprised it isn't a little more like rifles where there are 100 different options that are an eenth here or there all the way up.

No other options?

[Chronos]

16g, 20g 28g ?

Lots if options if you look but you might be restricted by who makes what guns. For example berettas silver pidgeon field only comes in 12g and 20g. A nice 20 g is on my wish list at some point.

Chronos

[1290]

and more....8mm, 9mm, .410, 32g, 28g, 24g 20g 16g 14g 12g 10g 8g 4g

Not all are commonly recognised, the most common between the 12 and 410 is the 20g ??

To compare the actual sizes, the size is the bore at the chamber;
8mm, 9.05mm
9mm, 8.38/9.7mm
410(36g), 11.8mm
32g, 14.3/13.3mm
28g, 15.6mm
24g, 16.5mm
20g, 17.4mm
16g, 18.6mm
14g, 19.35mm
12g, 20.3mm
10g, 21.4mm
8g, 23.2mm
4g, 26.3mm

.
.
.
.
Now, who needs a four??

[Warrigul]

A 20 guage is the in betweener but I personally find anything other than 12 guage utterly pointless. A 20 guage is probably the most common in between cartridge. There are even specific competitions for 20 guage but most serious clay shooters use adaptor tubes(these are what I use).

You can get 12 guage loads equivelant to 20 guage for 2/3 the price if recoil is the issue. I can see where a slightly lighter gun may be better for younger people and slightly feminine men, oh and women of course, but that is the only advantage. To me running a 20 guage is like running .22 shorts in a rifle, a bit pointless.

A .410 costs a bloody fortune to buy and run for very little effect.

I used 180 odd cartridges last evening and not even a bruise, mind you they were 28gram #8 low recoils, I am not totally stupid.

Just my humble opinions.

[Chronos]

A 20g gun is smaller and lighter than any 12g, reason enough to choose one if you're hunting over dogs and taking quail or pheasant at close ranges over his ESS. A discussion I've had with a good mate from England pointed out to me that for most of the game he has shot in the UK and here his 20g is a better choice than his 12g. I was almost going to buy one but went with a 12g for flexibility and because most if my shotgun shooting will be at the range.

Of course he's a great shot and has the sense to shoot within the limits of the gun. He doesn't shoot ducks or geese with it but the bugger does alright with it at the skeet range too.

Kind of like buying a .22 magnum for foxes over a .223 I guess. Just

Chronos

[Warrigul]

A 20g gun is smaller and lighter than any 12g, reason enough to choose one if you're hunting over dogs and taking quail or pheasant at close ranges

Chronos

Done a lot of shotgunning?

[on_one_wheel]

Is there such a thing?

12gauge has some bang to it but 410 is pretty nothing.

And there is no common shotgun cartridge in a middle size?

Surprised it isn't a little more like rifles where there are 100 different options that are an eenth here or there all the way up.

No other options?

A 12 gauge can be like having dosens of different guns, the off the shelf choice with cartridges is massive, power, shot size, solid rounds, hollow point rounds, sabbot rounds, mixed shot sizes, copper coated, steel, lead, glass, salt, and the list probably goes on..... ok glass and salt might not be off the shelf then

Then there's the gun it's self, single, double, smooth bore s/s , o/u, rifled, lever action, bolt acton, semi auto and pump .

I think the 12 gauge offers the best bang for your buck.

[1290]

Done a lot of shotgunning?

Go easy on him...

The young fella is still learning....

[Chronos]

yeah i'm learning, from people that have done a lot of it and are happy to share their knowledge and experience and not simply troll about like an old mole

are you telling me a 20g with 3" chambers that's 1 - 1 1/2lbs lighter than a 12g is a bad buy for rabbiting and quail hunting? oh well i'll have to tell my mate

Chronos

[Warrigul]

Some people do, others talk about what others say they do.

The issue arises when they try and advise others based on what someone else says or what they have read, sometimes it is better to say nothing at all if you don't actually know.

A 20 guage has a much smaller bore and is a worse choice at close range as the shot is constricted for longer. Fire a 7/8 oz load(same amount of pellets) out of a 12 and a 20 guage and the 12 guage will have a larger spread and shorter string. This means the 12ga is far better at close ranges with an equivelent number of pellets. At a longer range the 20 ga will always hold a tighter pattern for a given number of pellets but the 12ga is usually heavier loaded and more than compensates with m,ore pellets in the air and a larger pattern.

You may call me an old mole but at least I know what I am talking about having used both guages and having hunted extensively since the age of 14(I had to be a decent size before I was allowed to use a shotgun).

Your mate shoots well despite being handicapped by a 20 guage, 95% of the score is dependent on the shooter not simply his equipment. A 20 guage definately is a handicap otherwise everyone would be using one in competition.

So grow up.

[Chronos]

see how much we can learn when people give more than 5 word replies,I might as well ask you seeing as you're sharing your knowledge

the way it was explained to me, and it may be wrong it that a 20g loaded with 7/8oz of shot will shoot a longer pattern of about the same size for a given choke size compared to a 12g. of course the 12g may be loaded with more shot, say 1oz or 1 1/8oz and so can be choked to give a larger pattern for the same density but will produce more recoil because of the extra mass.

if this isn't correct i'd be happy to hear it explained correctly because as 1290 said when it comes to shotguns i am still learning, but i read, watch DVD's and online vids and speak to guys i meet that like yourself have been shooting shotguns for 40 - 50 years. Some of them will tell you everything you're doing wrong ,they're not much help but the quiet guy that stands behind you and offers reassurance of the things you're doing right are the ones to listen to in my experience because they're the ones who want you to learn more than they want to shoot you down


yes my mate (i won't name him here) is a great shooter and may well make up for the handicap of shooting less pellets with talent but that isn't something i could criticize him for

Chronos

[Warrigul]

You know what Chronos? I just simply can't be bothered anymore.

[1290]

Come on, its all in good faith.... this is meant to be a learning experience, a teaching experience and even a venting time for some, we ALL need to vent from time to time, some times better in anonymity to the interwebs...

I've never shot a 410, have no need, neither a 20..... only ever shot a 12, because it works for me, rolled plenty of bunnie. With one shot I got 7 bunnies once (2 adults were close enough and one was apparently a female, without going into details....

Some say the 20 does everything the 12 g might, I doubt it but I do know that when I go to my local dealer he has dozens of stacks of 12g boxes lined up, in all flavours from target to heavy shot loads. I recall there were a few 20g boxes, didnt see any 410, not that I was looking for it.

I have a 16g, never dropped a round into the chamber, only ever pull out a 12g when doing some sgunning....sometimes a bit of sovrapposti, otherwise I like a paralelli.....

In the field the recoil just as rifling, is not really felt.... you can modify the chamber to reduce the 12g recoil apparently (lengthening forcing cone)....

I'll add a bit more later....

Warrigul got thos pics ready??

[KWhorenet]

This topic has me frothing to get another shotty. Thanks guys, my savings are nervous already!

Grew up with a Boito 410 & loved it, next a 12g pumpy which I miss, poor gun is probably reicarnated as roofing iron now (RIP).

I have wanted a Winchester 9410 LA for ever, but $1900 for the last one I saw erks me!
Would reload brass shells for this little beauty.

On the look out for an U/O 12g for now.
Prices are beyond belief. 1 cow thru to 1 Block of land

[1290]

I've found a nice 12g for you, old school it with a sxs H&H...


65,000, plus airfares...

thats pounds sterling!

[wrenchman]

for a smaller stature shooter a 20 gauge will work just as good as a 12 in most cases i started both my boys out on the 20 and they worked fine.
It is a lighter and smaller gun and if you are carrying all day you will injoy it i dont no if you can find ammo were you are.

[Mich]

Hit the gym, pump those guns.

Buy a 12 gauge

[on_one_wheel]

This topic has me frothing to get another shotty. Thanks guys, my savings are nervous already!

Grew up with a Boito 410 & loved it, next a 12g pumpy which I miss, poor gun is probably reicarnated as roofing iron now (RIP).

I have wanted a Winchester 9410 LA for ever, but $1900 for the last one I saw erks me!
Would reload brass shells for this little beauty.

On the look out for an U/O 12g for now.
Prices are beyond belief. 1 cow thru to 1 Block of land

Don't discount the cheeper shotguns like Akkar, Ata and stoger. You could have one for the price of two pigs.

[KWhorenet]

My boito cost about 4 chooks and the pumpy cost about 10 sheep...1989 prices of course :s

Thanks 1290, will short list that beauty for sure...lotto ticket chances.

Too true one-wheel. My lgs has a selection to shoulder and get hands on for comparison. Def wont be buying based on net reviews and looks alone for this one.

[greenonion]

Thanks for all the replies guys.

I knew there were others but wanted to stress which was common, easy to get ammo for. My locals have 12 gauge ammo by the pallet and a bit of 410. This was what had me thinking there wasn't much else common going.

20g sounds like it though. I'll have a look, thanks.

If that doesn't pan out it'll have to be 12 gauge. Best bang for buck as said.

[greenonion]

65,000, plus airfares...

thats pounds sterling!

I better just buy 2 then

[MrClark]

Hahaha jeez!! I wont be asking for advice around here again.

Don't worry Chronos, the "Major" title of peoples profile only means they've spent too much time on the computer, dosen't say anything about age or experience.

Catch yas later

[on_one_wheel]

IMG_20141212_231127.jpg (61.32 KiB) Viewed 5353 times

[sbd3927]

As a kid I tried a 410 several times, clearly saw the shot scatter around the bunnies, and the bunnies scatter into the bush. Nicely stalked, around 30-45' range (10-15m) I think it was #6 shot, just not enough pellets in it to have a chance of hitting one in the right spot.

By and large the few times I've fired a 12 gauge I've ended up with a similar opinion, unless you are poking it up the critters behind, then there's a good chance its going to get away, probably hurting, but not in the tucker bag at the end of the day.

I can see the value for trying something on the wing, but if its on the ground or water, near stationary I'd rather a rifle. Perhaps one day someone will show me how a 12g is supposed to work, but 12g, 20.3mm
10g, 21.4mm
8g, 23.2mm
4g, 26.3mm

that 4g is looking a lot more useful than below 12g. I bet they kick like a mule.

I've 5 bunnies in the oven atm, 60m-80m, would be damn hard getting closer in local terrain, 75m head shot gives a nice fuzzy feeling.

[on_one_wheel]

It pays in spades to work out what patterns well in your shot gun, kind of like finding out what groups well in your rifle. I've been having great success on the rabbits with my 12 gauge from 5 out to 50 mtrs but its no way to get rabbits for the table.

[Arth]

that 4g is looking a lot more useful than below 12g. I bet they kick like a mule.

Watch this

4 Gauge Shotgun Recoil

TBH... I don't want one