Chronographs

[deadkitty]

I"m considering the value of buying a chrono, I'm not a comp shooter, just need to know if it will help me reload more accurate ammo, and is there a brand I should avoid or consider? Cheers

[Wm.Traynor]

Don't get the old-technology-things, that relied on a cloud free sky. By the time I used to get to the range, the sky would cloud over and an enforced wait ensued When your time is limited................. Then it Rains

All my hunting rifles were accurate without them anyway. What sort of accuracy are you after mate? If you are not satisfied with your present groups, could the bedding need checking? This would be indicated by vertical dispersion.

[MR. WINCHESTER]

How does a Chrono aid accuracy ?

Isn't a tighter grouping, independant of velocity ?

Disclaimer: I also, am not a benchrest type of fella.

[GLS_1956]

MR. WINCHESTER: Dad had, we now have, an Oehler chronograph, dad got the chronograph because dad enjoyed reloading. It was the top of the line when dad bought it decades ago, he got the "Sky Screens" so he didn't have to stock up on "paper screens".

What a chronograph will tell you, or show you, is the consistency of a load, when it comes to velocity and that consistency helps in achieving repeatable results. If you, in a 44 Special, use 8 grains of powder "A" behind a 180 grain wadcutter and get velocities that run from a low of 700fps to a high of 850fps, then when changing to 9.5 grains of powder "B", keeping all other components the same, and you get a velocity or range of velocities that run from 725fps to 775fps, you will most likely find the load that has the least variation, Standard Deviation, to be the more accurate or at least the more consistent.

A chronograph will also show you how changing components, especially primers, can affect a load.

[MR. WINCHESTER]

Thankyou GLS ...

But, besides 'knowing all about' one's load development ....

Is having and using a Chronograph, fundamentally crucial in improving accuracy ..... or is it just another tool to assist in the quest thereof ?

[southeast varmiter]

Chrony tells you velocity for your drop tables if you want to shoot past 500m

[deadkitty]

Don't get the old-technology-things, that relied on a cloud free sky. By the time I used to get to the range, the sky would cloud over and an enforced wait ensued When your time is limited................. Then it Rains

All my hunting rifles were accurate without them anyway. What sort of accuracy are you after mate? If you are not satisfied with your present groups, could the bedding need checking? This would be indicated by vertical dispersion.

Thanks, I'm looking at keeping groups tight enough to head shoot mostly feral dogs, foxes and cats, currently my groups are around .6 moa at 100 mtrs (50gr Vmax 25grs 8208) but I'd ideally like to take that out to 200m, the dogs are getting harder to get close too...... I don't mind going for the vital zone on the dogs and cats but I'm planning a set of new car seat covers.... fox of course . Never had a rifle accurized.... used to free float my old .22lr's and 22/250 though. would that help?. Cheers

[brett1868]

A chronograph becomes essential when trying to achieve high levels of precision with your reloads. At 100m a SD of 30fps won't matter but at 300m it can be the difference between a hit or a miss. I have 3 at the moment and looking at one of the new Doppler Radar units just becoming available on the market. Currently in the tool box is a Magneto Speed V3, CED M2 & the Premium Caldwell Ballistic Precision units. All have their strengths & weaknesses, the Magneto Speed clamps to the barrel while the other 2 rely on light. If you're looking to do some simple development and not using a public range then the Caldwell is probably the most cost effective with best balance of cost vs. features. If using a public range then MagnetoSpeed has the edge as you don't need to place anything beyond the firing line.

Magneto Speed
http://www.magnetospeed.com/

CED M2
http://www.nvt.com.au/p/1770/chronograph.html

Caldwell
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/628006/caldwell-ballistic-precision-chronograph-premium-kit

Lab Radar - Will be getting this next
http://www.mylabradar.com/

If you have any specific questions then please ask

[bladeracer]

Thanks, I'm looking at keeping groups tight enough to head shoot mostly feral dogs, foxes and cats, currently my groups are around .6 moa at 100 mtrs (50gr Vmax 25grs 8208) but I'd ideally like to take that out to 200m, the dogs are getting harder to get close too...... I don't mind going for the vital zone on the dogs and cats but I'm planning a set of new car seat covers.... fox of course . Never had a rifle accurized.... used to free float my old .22lr's and 22/250 though. would that help?. Cheers

If you can already hold your first shot within 0.3MoA of your point of aim while field shooting at 200m, that's more than accurate enough for what you're doing.
0.6MoA at 200m is grouping 36mm, as long as you're reading the wind and range accurately, you're going to hit anything inside a 36mm circle.

[Wm.Traynor]

Although I am a believer in the free floating barrel, I would not be in too much of a hurry to float that particular barrel. For instance, your load is suited to the pressure that that fore-end exerts on the barrel. Change that and the group size could be spoiled, not to mention the zero. However, if the stock is wood, a humidity change could have a negative effect.

Note too, That barrel floating does not necessarily mean that the action is properly bedded.

[bladeracer]

I"m considering the value of buying a chrono, I'm not a comp shooter, just need to know if it will help me reload more accurate ammo, and is there a brand I should avoid or consider? Cheers

I use a simple and very cheap ProChrono Digital.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Competition- ... 2089059165
Does everything I need from it.
I put a box of .22LR through it in a single session to test its consistency and am happy with it.
I don't use the screens but it took me a little while to work out that I need to tilt it so the bullets pass between the sensors and the light source, so late afternoons I'm pretty much shooting past the side of it while it lays on its side on the tripod to face (what we laughingly call) the sun. I set it up so my shots are passing the sensors at about 50-100mm max.
My .204 24gn NTX loads hold around 4385-4410fps across numerous sessions in differing weather conditions.
Now and then I get "no reading" errors, but usually those are fixed by either adjusting the tilt to face the moving sun, or moving the chrono further away from the muzzle blast.
Because it's so bloody wet and windy here it's pretty battered, been blown over more times than I can recall, the front placard fell off very early on, and it rattles like a bastard, but it still does the job just fine.
When it comes time to replace it I don't know that I'll be looking for anything different and will quite likely just get another one of these. When I'm developing loads I write the velocity on each case with a marker as well as in the shot log. It records the strings but I don't want to have to carry it around. The chrono has spent its life out in a paddock in a big plastic storage crate. I put a third battery in it a couple weeks ago so battery life isn't bad either, and it has a compartment to hold a spare battery anyway.

[Gwion]

You can reload pretty good stuff without a chronie but as others say, it helps choose a load that has the most consistent velocity (lowest extreme spread and standard deviation). Having a reliable account of velocity in a given environment also does wonders for working out drop tables and DOPE charts.

There is still a heap of other things you can do to accurise your rifle and tune your load with out a chronie. Best I got my 223 shooting consistently was 0.4 at 100m. All without a chronie. More than good enough for 200 but past that is when your velocity consistency comes in for reliable drop.

[deadkitty]

Thanks heaps everyone, you've answered questions I hadn't even considered, all very useful stuff. I absolutely no idea that the time of day or cloud\s could upset the functioning of a chronograph......still a lot to learn. Thanks again

[Gwion]

DK, if you are starting to shoot out further, maybe a heavier (longer) bullet with better BC will is an idea. The 50gn Vmax get pushed around by wind a fair bit and drop like a MF after about 230m. I know this because I have used them target shooting (or Zmax which is same design & BC, different construction) out to 600yds. 500yd is their MAX for any sort of reliable accuracy.

With a better BC your trajectory may not be quite as flat over the first 150 meters but it will carry momentum further and be less affected by wind.

Just something to consider.

[deadkitty]

DK, if you are starting to shoot out further, maybe a heavier (longer) bullet with better BC will is an idea. The 50gn Vmax get pushed around by wind a fair bit and drop like a MF after about 230m. I know this because I have used them target shooting (or Zmax which is same design & BC, different construction) out to 600yds. 500yd is their MAX for any sort of reliable accuracy.

With a better BC your trajectory may not be quite as flat over the first 150 meters but it will carry momentum further and be less affected by wind.

Just something to consider.

Thanks, I'm working up loads for 69gr HPBT's and 64gr Bonded both Noslers, and 55gr Sierra Spitzers, was told by the LGS that the 69grs are not a hunting bullet, but I can't see them not working of dogs foxes or cats?. The Bonded's are for any feral goats or Sika that might wander onto my place....saw a Sika about 6 kms away...new for this area. Cheers and Thanks

[andreweden]

Lab Radar - Will be getting this next
http://www.mylabradar.com/

If you have any specific questions then please ask

That is a nice piece of kit!

[deadkitty]

Lab Radar - Will be getting this next
http://www.mylabradar.com/

If you have any specific questions then please ask

That is a nice piece of kit!

Thanks Andre, I might get back tp you once you've used if for a while..... I'm in no rush for a chrono, and that item looks a bit on the bleeding edge of technology for me, I think I'd rather consider a .308 as my next possible necessity ...... Cheers

[Gwion]

DK, the jackets on some target bullets are too thick/hard to allow proper expansion. That said, there is a well known hunting guide in NZ who likes the external ballistics of a certain hunting bullet so he anneals the top third of the jacket by putting them base down in a tin and covering the bottom 2/3 with water and then hitting them with a blow torch. He says it works well and terminal performance is much enhanced.

Not recommending it, just saying it has been done.
EDIT: here's the VID

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEisehCPtdw

[deadkitty]

DK, the jackets on some target bullets are too thick/hard to allow proper expansion. That said, there is a well known hunting guide in NZ who likes the external ballistics of a certain hunting bullet so he anneals the top third of the jacket by putting them base down in a tin and covering the bottom 2/3 with water and then hitting them with a blow torch. He says it works well and terminal performance is much enhanced.

Not recommending it, just saying it has been done.
EDIT: here's the VID

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEisehCPtdw

That is extremely cool Thanks I'll check it out.

[deadkitty]

Gwion , I've been using the terminal ballistics site for ages, it what inspired me to reload in the first place. Thanks again