Anyone tried lead free projectiles, or steel shot?

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Re: Anyone tried lead free projectiles, or steel shot?

Post by Gwion » 06 Oct 2016, 10:06 pm

I was looking at the 45gn for pest control. Normal 40-45gns are too short to seat right for my 223 and a copper bullet would be longer for the weight but at over $2 a pop, that's expensive pest control!!! Currently shooting bullets that cost me 22c each...
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Re: Anyone tried lead free projectiles, or steel shot?

Post by bladeracer » 06 Oct 2016, 10:14 pm

Gwion wrote:I was looking at the 45gn for pest control. Normal 40-45gns are too short to seat right for my 223 and a copper bullet would be longer for the weight but at over $2 a pop, that's expensive pest control!!! Currently shooting bullets that cost me 22c each...



I was shooting .22LR today at 50c a piece for 2" groups at 100m :-)
The cheapest load I feed the .204 uses the ZMax 32gn and Trailboss at about 30c a shot.
At 2400fps it's my "Hornet" load, and it was shooting 1" groups today :-)
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Re: Anyone tried lead free projectiles, or steel shot?

Post by Gwion » 06 Oct 2016, 10:23 pm

Yep, Zmax with trail boss is a cheap way to go and puts my 223 at about 1850fps with a 50gn. I was getting 2100 or just over with 40gn bullets but the seating depth gave irratic accuracy.
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Re: Anyone tried lead free projectiles, or steel shot?

Post by deadkitty » 07 Oct 2016, 6:39 am

Gwion wrote:Yep, Zmax with trail boss is a cheap way to go and puts my 223 at about 1850fps with a 50gn. I was getting 2100 or just over with 40gn bullets but the seating depth gave irratic accuracy.


Are those the 50gr Zmax?, any ideas on what the maximum charge of Trail Boss is?, I have an awful lot of 50gr Zmax projectiles (bought while on special at Rebel sports) and bought a can of Trail Boss for sub sonic/ mild loads to reduce noise, it would be handy to have a practical useful load for the two of them. Cheers
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Re: Anyone tried lead free projectiles, or steel shot?

Post by deadkitty » 07 Oct 2016, 6:44 am

brett1868 wrote:I believe steel shot is mandatory for duck hunting in some states but you'd have to check the hunting regulations. I use a lot of brass VLD projectiles in the .416 Barrett that I got custom made for me by Eric at Woodleigh in Victoria. There's also a number of manufacturers doing CNC solid copper projectiles such as the Cutting Edge Copper Raptor range that come in .223 amongst other sizes. Daryl at Meplat Services imports the Cutting Edge range into Australia and he's a good guy to deal with. There are also some solid steel projectiles on the market but they are special use due to being hard on barrels.

Just a couple of questions on those brass projectiles Brett, given they are lighter did you notice higher initial velocities? did you get extra distance?. Is there anywhere I can find the load data for them? Thanks for the other info, I'll look up the Raptors. Cheers
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Re: Anyone tried lead free projectiles, or steel shot?

Post by bladeracer » 07 Oct 2016, 6:49 am

deadkitty wrote:
Gwion wrote:Yep, Zmax with trail boss is a cheap way to go and puts my 223 at about 1850fps with a 50gn. I was getting 2100 or just over with 40gn bullets but the seating depth gave irratic accuracy.


Are those the 50gr Zmax?, any ideas on what the maximum charge of Trail Boss is?, I have an awful lot of 50gr Zmax projectiles (bought while on special at Rebel sports) and bought a can of Trail Boss for sub sonic/ mild loads to reduce noise, it would be handy to have a practical useful load for the two of them. Cheers



In the .204 it's about 10gn so .223 is around 9.5gns I'd guess - just fill it to the top and stick a bullet in.
Hornady's RooMax is even cheaper than the ZMax - about 15c a piece.
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Re: Anyone tried lead free projectiles, or steel shot?

Post by deadkitty » 07 Oct 2016, 6:49 am

darwindingo wrote:DK..I busted a tooth on steel shot once...

Definately a hazard I'll watch out for :lol: ...now....how the hell did you manage that! :wtf: Standing too close to shotputters at the olympics perhaps? :clap:
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Re: Anyone tried lead free projectiles, or steel shot?

Post by deadkitty » 07 Oct 2016, 6:54 am

MR. WINCHESTER wrote:
deadkitty wrote:Thanks guys, that's a bit of info to work my way through, still looking for composite projectiles and any terminal ballistic data on them. Might have to search Californian gun stores. Cheers .



REALLY ?

Californian ANYTHING, is probably the lowest common denominator .... unless one is a rampant Green / Greenie.


Yep that's me! the rampant greenie :mrgreen: , also....California has mandatory lead free shooting areas, so I figured they would have info on lead free projectiles....... and somewhere they sell the composite ones Iḿ trying to find out about. Cheers
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Re: Anyone tried lead free projectiles, or steel shot?

Post by bladeracer » 07 Oct 2016, 7:06 am

deadkitty wrote:Just a couple of questions on those brass projectiles Brett, given they are lighter did you notice higher initial velocities? did you get extra distance?. Is there anywhere I can find the load data for them? Thanks for the other info, I'll look up the Raptors. Cheers



If they're lighter they're unlikely to increase the range, that's what the heavier bullets are for.
The .204 shoots the 24gn at 4400fps, Mach 4 is only 4465fps at sea level :-)
By 150yds it's down to Mach 3, Mach 2 at 350yds and it's subsonic by 650yds.
A 260yd zero puts it 1.9" high at 150yds and only 2" low at 300yds.
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Re: Anyone tried lead free projectiles, or steel shot?

Post by bladeracer » 07 Oct 2016, 7:10 am

deadkitty wrote:Yep that's me! the rampant greenie :mrgreen: , also....California has mandatory lead free shooting areas, so I figured they would have info on lead free projectiles....... and somewhere they sell the composite ones Iḿ trying to find out about. Cheers


When you find them please post links, I don't particularly care about them being lead-free but I would be interested in looking at their ballistics regardless.
Keep in mind that, as far as I'm aware, non-lead bullets even in Cali are only required for shooting live game. Californians are free to expend 5000 lead bullets into the surrounding trees and dirt before taking that shot at the squirrel with the non-lead bullet.
Last edited by bladeracer on 07 Oct 2016, 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Anyone tried lead free projectiles, or steel shot?

Post by Gwion » 07 Oct 2016, 8:20 am

deadkitty wrote:
Gwion wrote:Yep, Zmax with trail boss is a cheap way to go and puts my 223 at about 1850fps with a 50gn. I was getting 2100 or just over with 40gn bullets but the seating depth gave irratic accuracy.


Are those the 50gr Zmax?, any ideas on what the maximum charge of Trail Boss is?, I have an awful lot of 50gr Zmax projectiles (bought while on special at Rebel sports) and bought a can of Trail Boss for sub sonic/ mild loads to reduce noise, it would be handy to have a practical useful load for the two of them. Cheers


viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3112&start=72

Full load data and chrony results on page 5.
Process of working up the load scattered throughout. Also, a few others chime in with their load development.
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Re: Anyone tried lead free projectiles, or steel shot?

Post by Wobble » 07 Oct 2016, 2:48 pm

deadkitty wrote:Thanks Apollo, I'm aware of the Barnes projectiles, I was thinking more along the lines of the new composite bullets they use in California


The what now in California?
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Re: Anyone tried lead free projectiles, or steel shot?

Post by deadkitty » 07 Oct 2016, 3:51 pm

Thanks again everyone, so much info! . Thanks Gwion for then link to your Trail Boss loads, that takes care of that little problem. Wobble, the composite projectiles are supposedly made from powdered metal bonded with??? I'll assume some kind of epoxy, I came across them in an article in a mates shooting mag ages ago, searched all my old Australian Shooter mags and couldn't find it anywhere. Bladeracer, no problem I'll post the links when I find it/them, also thanks for the ballistics info, I was assuming the brass custom jobs were superior by having a better BC, I clearly have a lot to learn about reloading and ballistics. Thanks again to you all Cheers
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Re: Anyone tried lead free projectiles, or steel shot?

Post by Rifle realist » 07 Oct 2016, 4:41 pm

Hello Dead Kitty
Perhaps the projectiles you are looking at might be the sintered metal/epoxy they use for shooting metallic targets.
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Re: Anyone tried lead free projectiles, or steel shot?

Post by bladeracer » 07 Oct 2016, 7:02 pm

deadkitty wrote:Wobble, the composite projectiles are supposedly made from powdered metal bonded with??? I'll assume some kind of epoxy, I came across them in an article in a mates shooting mag ages ago, searched all my old Australian Shooter mags and couldn't find it anywhere.


Okay, these are just powdered copper and/or brass like Hornady's NTX in .204 and .223, although a powdered copper bullet encased in a copper jacket probably doesn't constitute a "composite" label :-)
My impression was that these are mainly for the smaller caliber bullets but I'll have to do some research to see if they use them for bigger stuff also.
I thought they were merely compressed powder without a bonding agent though.
I forgot earlier that Hornady also do a monolithic copper bullet, the GMX.
In the bigger calibers there are an awful lot of non-lead bullet alternatives.
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Re: Anyone tried lead free projectiles, or steel shot?

Post by deadkitty » 08 Oct 2016, 7:17 am

Rifle realist wrote:Hello Dead Kitty
Perhaps the projectiles you are looking at might be the sintered metal/epoxy they use for shooting metallic targets.
Cheers


I hope not!, but you might be right :unknown: , I'd try them anyway as I spend more time shooting targets than ferals, unfortunately :cry: . Thanks for the info Cheers
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Re: Anyone tried lead free projectiles, or steel shot?

Post by deadkitty » 08 Oct 2016, 7:25 am

bladeracer wrote:
deadkitty wrote:Wobble, the composite projectiles are supposedly made from powdered metal bonded with??? I'll assume some kind of epoxy, I came across them in an article in a mates shooting mag ages ago, searched all my old Australian Shooter mags and couldn't find it anywhere.


Okay, these are just powdered copper and/or brass like Hornady's NTX in .204 and .223, although a powdered copper bullet encased in a copper jacket probably doesn't constitute a "composite" label :-)
My impression was that these are mainly for the smaller caliber bullets but I'll have to do some research to see if they use them for bigger stuff also.
I thought they were merely compressed powder without a bonding agent though.
I forgot earlier that Hornady also do a monolithic copper bullet, the GMX.
In the bigger calibers there are an awful lot of non-lead bullet alternatives.


Yep, I've seen the ammo, but I'm looking for projectiles to reload and I can't find the NTX in .223 as a projectile, only as bullets :cry: At this rate I might have to :idea: buy a lathe! :geek: ....mmmm wonder what the wife might say on that one. Cheers
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Re: Anyone tried lead free projectiles, or steel shot?

Post by bladeracer » 08 Oct 2016, 7:47 am

deadkitty wrote: Yep, I've seen the ammo, but I'm looking for projectiles to reload and I can't find the NTX in .223 as a projectile, only as bullets :cry: At this rate I might have to :idea: buy a lathe! :geek: ....mmmm wonder what the wife might say on that one. Cheers



Have you tried asking your local dealer to order you some?
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Re: Anyone tried lead free projectiles, or steel shot?

Post by bladeracer » 08 Oct 2016, 8:06 am

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Re: Anyone tried lead free projectiles, or steel shot?

Post by Gwion » 08 Oct 2016, 8:09 am

These are the guys I mentioned that do sample pack lots for testing before you shell out on bulk buys.
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Re: Anyone tried lead free projectiles, or steel shot?

Post by bladeracer » 08 Oct 2016, 9:25 am

Gwion wrote:These are the guys I mentioned that do sample pack lots for testing before you shell out on bulk buys.



Better than that, I noticed they have Hornady 7mm ELD-X's in stock!
Everywhere I've been trying to order them have been telling me they won't be available until 2017.
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Re: Anyone tried lead free projectiles, or steel shot?

Post by Gwion » 08 Oct 2016, 1:36 pm

If you get some, let me know how they go. Do you use the 162amax?

Wondering how close they are. On paper almost identical. I think they have made one ELD brand a hunting round and the other a target but that's just an assumption based on so many using the Amax as a hunting round when it was designed for target use.
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Re: Anyone tried lead free projectiles, or steel shot?

Post by bladeracer » 08 Oct 2016, 7:43 pm

Gwion wrote:If you get some, let me know how they go. Do you use the 162amax?

Wondering how close they are. On paper almost identical. I think they have made one ELD brand a hunting round and the other a target but that's just an assumption based on so many using the Amax as a hunting round when it was designed for target use.



No. haven't tried the AMax (are they still doing the AMax in 7mm, I thought it was discontinued last year?), I've been using the Speer 145gn and 160gn HotCor, and Sierra's 100gn HP mainly, and currently working on loads for Hornady's 120gn VMax and 162gn ELD-M. I got the VMax's because I couldn't get any more of the 100gn HP when I ran short. I have 200 more of the 100's coming, but I'm finding the 120gn VMax is the better bullet, so I'll just use the 100's for Trailboss close-range loads. I'm finding Hornady to be better in everything I try so it won't be long before I give up even trying anything else.
The ELD-X is the hunting version of the ELD-M with a slightly lower BC. It's rated to work at 1800+fps so max range is about 620yds - which is twice as far as I'm ever likely to use them. I wouldn't be surprised if the ELD-X isn't just a slightly refined update of the AMax.
The 160gn HotCor at 2600fps and 250yd zero by 500yds is down to 1800fps and dropping 45", the 162gn ELD-X and the AMax should be holding around 1950fps and dropping 41".
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Re: Anyone tried lead free projectiles, or steel shot?

Post by darryn » 21 Dec 2016, 8:07 pm

steel shot in a shotgun you need steel proof gun most moderns are and opposite choke to normal, tightest lead you go to * and steel shoots tight with **** it flys different to lead shot. im using clever brand steel in 4s which is = 6 in lead, there a different sizing between steel and lead. steel kills, not in the old guns with fixed choke unless its opened choke. still really need a modern gun really. take it from me, steel kills. i always shoot a bag no worrys used steel in my old gun i had when i was a kid hardly kill a bird, got a cheap stoeger, 1st shot out of it a black duck about 80 yards up dead. i thought s**t it does kill. never looked back. unless you forget to switch chocks back after using lead shot. duh i learnt..
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Re: Anyone tried lead free projectiles, or steel shot?

Post by Tiger650 » 10 Jan 2017, 7:58 am

Whatever happened to Bismuth shot ?
Saw it being touted in Victoria years back after the lead shot BS.
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