Anyone tried lead free projectiles, or steel shot?

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Anyone tried lead free projectiles, or steel shot?

Post by deadkitty » 06 Oct 2016, 6:55 am

I'm trying to find out if lead free projectiles are any good, given recent reports of lead levels in kids in N.T. apparently due to lead shot being used to bring down Magpie Geese, the locals are switching to steel shot. I've never seen lead free projectiles in Oz ...but then again, I wasn't looking. Anyone have first hand experience with them?, are they available as projectiles only? Any help appreciated. Cheers
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Re: Anyone tried lead free projectiles, or steel shot?

Post by Apollo » 06 Oct 2016, 7:03 am

Barnes Bullets are Lead Free and have been for sometime. There are others available.
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Re: Anyone tried lead free projectiles, or steel shot?

Post by deadkitty » 06 Oct 2016, 7:16 am

Thanks Apollo, I'm aware of the Barnes projectiles, I was thinking more along the lines of the new composite bullets they use in California
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Re: Anyone tried lead free projectiles, or steel shot?

Post by AusTac » 06 Oct 2016, 7:30 am

So fisherman have been/still are using lead sinkers for yonks and the waterways are full of lead, but hey it must be the shooters fault,our lead is so much worse -.-

Have to get the right gun i'm pretty sure to use steel shot, something to do with peening the chokes in if not
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Re: Anyone tried lead free projectiles, or steel shot?

Post by deadkitty » 06 Oct 2016, 3:06 pm

AusTac wrote:So fisherman have been/still are using lead sinkers for yonks and the waterways are full of lead, but hey it must be the shooters fault,our lead is so much worse -.-

Have to get the right gun i'm pretty sure to use steel shot, something to do with peening the chokes in if not


I had almost no experience with shotguns so I'll take your word of that one. Lead free sinkers were available from Fishing Tackle Australia years ago, I tried them...only once...they left a rusty mess in my tackle box... I think they were made from glue and slag from a steel mill. I usually fish with either flies or lures anyway. I'm just interested in the composite projectiles as I seem to have developed a reloading addiction and think they might be fun
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Re: Anyone tried lead free projectiles, or steel shot?

Post by brett1868 » 06 Oct 2016, 3:10 pm

I believe steel shot is mandatory for duck hunting in some states but you'd have to check the hunting regulations. I use a lot of brass VLD projectiles in the .416 Barrett that I got custom made for me by Eric at Woodleigh in Victoria. There's also a number of manufacturers doing CNC solid copper projectiles such as the Cutting Edge Copper Raptor range that come in .223 amongst other sizes. Daryl at Meplat Services imports the Cutting Edge range into Australia and he's a good guy to deal with. There are also some solid steel projectiles on the market but they are special use due to being hard on barrels.
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Re: Anyone tried lead free projectiles, or steel shot?

Post by bladeracer » 06 Oct 2016, 4:21 pm

deadkitty wrote:I'm trying to find out if lead free projectiles are any good, given recent reports of lead levels in kids in N.T. apparently due to lead shot being used to bring down Magpie Geese, the locals are switching to steel shot. I've never seen lead free projectiles in Oz ...but then again, I wasn't looking. Anyone have first hand experience with them?, are they available as projectiles only? Any help appreciated. Cheers



The .24gn NTX in .204 is lead-free, it's a powdered metal.
Any of the brass or copper bullets are also lead free.
I know you're not allowed to even possess lead shot when duck shooting here in Victoria.

Oh, and CCI just released the .22 Copper ammo which is a polymer 21gn bullet but unlikely to hit Oz before next year.
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Re: Anyone tried lead free projectiles, or steel shot?

Post by Gwion » 06 Oct 2016, 4:40 pm

Brett... Seems Cutting Edge only do projies at .243 and up. Meplat have other options as well but none of them for smaller cals.

I like the look of these: http://www.meplat.com.au/index.php/onli ... rojectiles

But it says they are for subsonic performance... would they handle being pushed at normal speeds???
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Re: Anyone tried lead free projectiles, or steel shot?

Post by MR. WINCHESTER » 06 Oct 2016, 4:45 pm

AusTac wrote:
Have to get the right gun i'm pretty sure to use steel shot, something to do with peening the chokes in if not



Not so much the "right gun", but more .... the right choke !
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Re: Anyone tried lead free projectiles, or steel shot?

Post by deadkitty » 06 Oct 2016, 6:19 pm

Thanks guys, that's a bit of info to work my way through, still looking for composite projectiles and any terminal ballistic data on them. Might have to search Californian gun stores. Cheers .
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Re: Anyone tried lead free projectiles, or steel shot?

Post by MR. WINCHESTER » 06 Oct 2016, 6:23 pm

deadkitty wrote:Thanks guys, that's a bit of info to work my way through, still looking for composite projectiles and any terminal ballistic data on them. Might have to search Californian gun stores. Cheers .



REALLY ?

Californian ANYTHING, is probably the lowest common denominator .... unless one is a rampant Green / Greenie.
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Re: Anyone tried lead free projectiles, or steel shot?

Post by brett1868 » 06 Oct 2016, 8:26 pm

Gwion wrote:Brett... Seems Cutting Edge only do projies at .243 and up. Meplat have other options as well but none of them for smaller cals.

I like the look of these: http://www.meplat.com.au/index.php/onli ... rojectiles

But it says they are for subsonic performance... would they handle being pushed at normal speeds???


No idea mate, I've always pushed to go faster. Give Meplat a call and ask Daryl if he can get the smaller calibers in with the next shipment.

https://cuttingedgebullets.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?search=action&category=ERCU
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Re: Anyone tried lead free projectiles, or steel shot?

Post by darwindingo » 06 Oct 2016, 8:55 pm

DK..I busted a tooth on steel shot once...
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Re: Anyone tried lead free projectiles, or steel shot?

Post by bladeracer » 06 Oct 2016, 9:16 pm

deadkitty wrote:Thanks guys, that's a bit of info to work my way through, still looking for composite projectiles and any terminal ballistic data on them. Might have to search Californian gun stores. Cheers .


All jacketed bullets are "composite" bullets so I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that. The CCI Copper is the only bullet I can think of off the top of my head that uses polymer. The others generally use copper or brass, either solid or powdered.

As far as I'm aware the solid copper are the best performing of the non-lead bullets, but brass bullets have been around the longest, are cheaper and have had the most research behind them. I try to maintain lists of all bullets I can find for each caliber I shoot, and in .204 solid copper or brass bullets are available from LeHigh, Barnes, Impala, Peregrine and GSC, plus Hornady's NTX powdered bullet. In .224 there are also Monolithic Munitions and Hornady's NTX.
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Re: Anyone tried lead free projectiles, or steel shot?

Post by bladeracer » 06 Oct 2016, 9:22 pm

deadkitty wrote:Thanks guys, that's a bit of info to work my way through, still looking for composite projectiles and any terminal ballistic data on them. Might have to search Californian gun stores. Cheers .



I just found this site that looks like a good starting point.
http://huntingwithnonlead.org/bullet_types.html
And this one.
http://www.leadfreehunting.com/buynow/
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Re: Anyone tried lead free projectiles, or steel shot?

Post by Gwion » 06 Oct 2016, 9:39 pm

Copper Raptors in 60gn 224 but $2+ each!!!
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Re: Anyone tried lead free projectiles, or steel shot?

Post by bladeracer » 06 Oct 2016, 9:53 pm

Actually, I can recall seeing video of a polymer 9mm bullet a year or two back but I can't recall who made it.

Hmmm...a simple Google tells me it's made by Polycase :-)
http://www.polycaseammo.com/project/inceptor-arx
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Re: Anyone tried lead free projectiles, or steel shot?

Post by bladeracer » 06 Oct 2016, 9:59 pm

Gwion wrote:Copper Raptors in 60gn 224 but $2+ each!!!



Try the Impala's, .243 are 240R for 50 bullets, that's A$230 plus the cost of getting them here :-)
Some of the VLD's used in F-Class are horrendously expensive.
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Re: Anyone tried lead free projectiles, or steel shot?

Post by Gwion » 06 Oct 2016, 10:06 pm

I was looking at the 45gn for pest control. Normal 40-45gns are too short to seat right for my 223 and a copper bullet would be longer for the weight but at over $2 a pop, that's expensive pest control!!! Currently shooting bullets that cost me 22c each...
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Re: Anyone tried lead free projectiles, or steel shot?

Post by bladeracer » 06 Oct 2016, 10:14 pm

Gwion wrote:I was looking at the 45gn for pest control. Normal 40-45gns are too short to seat right for my 223 and a copper bullet would be longer for the weight but at over $2 a pop, that's expensive pest control!!! Currently shooting bullets that cost me 22c each...



I was shooting .22LR today at 50c a piece for 2" groups at 100m :-)
The cheapest load I feed the .204 uses the ZMax 32gn and Trailboss at about 30c a shot.
At 2400fps it's my "Hornet" load, and it was shooting 1" groups today :-)
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Re: Anyone tried lead free projectiles, or steel shot?

Post by Gwion » 06 Oct 2016, 10:23 pm

Yep, Zmax with trail boss is a cheap way to go and puts my 223 at about 1850fps with a 50gn. I was getting 2100 or just over with 40gn bullets but the seating depth gave irratic accuracy.
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Re: Anyone tried lead free projectiles, or steel shot?

Post by deadkitty » 07 Oct 2016, 6:39 am

Gwion wrote:Yep, Zmax with trail boss is a cheap way to go and puts my 223 at about 1850fps with a 50gn. I was getting 2100 or just over with 40gn bullets but the seating depth gave irratic accuracy.


Are those the 50gr Zmax?, any ideas on what the maximum charge of Trail Boss is?, I have an awful lot of 50gr Zmax projectiles (bought while on special at Rebel sports) and bought a can of Trail Boss for sub sonic/ mild loads to reduce noise, it would be handy to have a practical useful load for the two of them. Cheers
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Re: Anyone tried lead free projectiles, or steel shot?

Post by deadkitty » 07 Oct 2016, 6:44 am

brett1868 wrote:I believe steel shot is mandatory for duck hunting in some states but you'd have to check the hunting regulations. I use a lot of brass VLD projectiles in the .416 Barrett that I got custom made for me by Eric at Woodleigh in Victoria. There's also a number of manufacturers doing CNC solid copper projectiles such as the Cutting Edge Copper Raptor range that come in .223 amongst other sizes. Daryl at Meplat Services imports the Cutting Edge range into Australia and he's a good guy to deal with. There are also some solid steel projectiles on the market but they are special use due to being hard on barrels.

Just a couple of questions on those brass projectiles Brett, given they are lighter did you notice higher initial velocities? did you get extra distance?. Is there anywhere I can find the load data for them? Thanks for the other info, I'll look up the Raptors. Cheers
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Re: Anyone tried lead free projectiles, or steel shot?

Post by bladeracer » 07 Oct 2016, 6:49 am

deadkitty wrote:
Gwion wrote:Yep, Zmax with trail boss is a cheap way to go and puts my 223 at about 1850fps with a 50gn. I was getting 2100 or just over with 40gn bullets but the seating depth gave irratic accuracy.


Are those the 50gr Zmax?, any ideas on what the maximum charge of Trail Boss is?, I have an awful lot of 50gr Zmax projectiles (bought while on special at Rebel sports) and bought a can of Trail Boss for sub sonic/ mild loads to reduce noise, it would be handy to have a practical useful load for the two of them. Cheers



In the .204 it's about 10gn so .223 is around 9.5gns I'd guess - just fill it to the top and stick a bullet in.
Hornady's RooMax is even cheaper than the ZMax - about 15c a piece.
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Re: Anyone tried lead free projectiles, or steel shot?

Post by deadkitty » 07 Oct 2016, 6:49 am

darwindingo wrote:DK..I busted a tooth on steel shot once...

Definately a hazard I'll watch out for :lol: ...now....how the hell did you manage that! :wtf: Standing too close to shotputters at the olympics perhaps? :clap:
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Re: Anyone tried lead free projectiles, or steel shot?

Post by deadkitty » 07 Oct 2016, 6:54 am

MR. WINCHESTER wrote:
deadkitty wrote:Thanks guys, that's a bit of info to work my way through, still looking for composite projectiles and any terminal ballistic data on them. Might have to search Californian gun stores. Cheers .



REALLY ?

Californian ANYTHING, is probably the lowest common denominator .... unless one is a rampant Green / Greenie.


Yep that's me! the rampant greenie :mrgreen: , also....California has mandatory lead free shooting areas, so I figured they would have info on lead free projectiles....... and somewhere they sell the composite ones Iḿ trying to find out about. Cheers
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Re: Anyone tried lead free projectiles, or steel shot?

Post by bladeracer » 07 Oct 2016, 7:06 am

deadkitty wrote:Just a couple of questions on those brass projectiles Brett, given they are lighter did you notice higher initial velocities? did you get extra distance?. Is there anywhere I can find the load data for them? Thanks for the other info, I'll look up the Raptors. Cheers



If they're lighter they're unlikely to increase the range, that's what the heavier bullets are for.
The .204 shoots the 24gn at 4400fps, Mach 4 is only 4465fps at sea level :-)
By 150yds it's down to Mach 3, Mach 2 at 350yds and it's subsonic by 650yds.
A 260yd zero puts it 1.9" high at 150yds and only 2" low at 300yds.
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Re: Anyone tried lead free projectiles, or steel shot?

Post by bladeracer » 07 Oct 2016, 7:10 am

deadkitty wrote:Yep that's me! the rampant greenie :mrgreen: , also....California has mandatory lead free shooting areas, so I figured they would have info on lead free projectiles....... and somewhere they sell the composite ones Iḿ trying to find out about. Cheers


When you find them please post links, I don't particularly care about them being lead-free but I would be interested in looking at their ballistics regardless.
Keep in mind that, as far as I'm aware, non-lead bullets even in Cali are only required for shooting live game. Californians are free to expend 5000 lead bullets into the surrounding trees and dirt before taking that shot at the squirrel with the non-lead bullet.
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Re: Anyone tried lead free projectiles, or steel shot?

Post by Gwion » 07 Oct 2016, 8:20 am

deadkitty wrote:
Gwion wrote:Yep, Zmax with trail boss is a cheap way to go and puts my 223 at about 1850fps with a 50gn. I was getting 2100 or just over with 40gn bullets but the seating depth gave irratic accuracy.


Are those the 50gr Zmax?, any ideas on what the maximum charge of Trail Boss is?, I have an awful lot of 50gr Zmax projectiles (bought while on special at Rebel sports) and bought a can of Trail Boss for sub sonic/ mild loads to reduce noise, it would be handy to have a practical useful load for the two of them. Cheers


viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3112&start=72

Full load data and chrony results on page 5.
Process of working up the load scattered throughout. Also, a few others chime in with their load development.
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Re: Anyone tried lead free projectiles, or steel shot?

Post by Wobble » 07 Oct 2016, 2:48 pm

deadkitty wrote:Thanks Apollo, I'm aware of the Barnes projectiles, I was thinking more along the lines of the new composite bullets they use in California


The what now in California?
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