7.62 x 54R???

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Re: 7.62 x 54R???

Post by Baldrick314 » 28 Jan 2017, 12:18 pm

Bushie wrote:I just called centreway and he said 28 bucks a box of 20, seems expensive but I suppose it's not a very popular round so what can you expect.


That's not bad, I got quoted $35/ 20 from the locals. That was Highland ammo though.
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Re: 7.62 x 54R???

Post by Bushie » 28 Jan 2017, 1:01 pm

Heckler303 wrote:Bushie, I would question why you would want to own a mosin nagant. There are other surplus rifles out there that leave the mosin for dead. Partially because they can actually shoot and function far enough to allow movement of the bolt. I know the plethora of internet neckbearded armchair experts out there will tell you how great they are, how accurate mosins can shoot once you perform some kind of miracle with them...

To be really honest, mosin nagants are junk. Their balance is terrible, working the bolt is the equivalent to dragging a grand piano across a gravel beach, trigger's much the same, the sight picture is rubbish, the stock is uncomfortable and ugly as hell, and it's muzzle blast is horrendous, carbine versions especially. Anyone who's even sat next to one of them going off knows that their face is going to be covered in unburnt, cheap, rusky powder or having their hair singed. The only reason they gained their cult following was because they were a surplus rifle that while extremely cheap, can somehow be made to function without sending the bolt back into the user's face upon firing.

If you would like to get a surplus however, that shoots and functions well, take a look out for any of the Model 96, 98, K98 mauser variants out there, any of the .303s (No.1 mks, No 4 mk 1s and mk2s + No.5 jungle carbines) or even some of the more rare rifles like the Pattern 1914 and the M1917.


I've always been a fan of old mosins and it all
Comes down to my own personal preference, and the main reason I want a Mosin is so I can look at it, clean it up shoot it maybe once every few months and to just say "I have a Mosin" I'm not looking for a mil surplus rifle to use every weekend, basically more or less a collectors piece, plus being a student with a part time job i domy really have massive budgets so cheaper rifles are what suits me at the moment, somewhere down the track I would love to have a collection of mausers, lithgows and Everytbing in between, but ever since I was a little kid I've always loved the Mosin, and I would love to get one and fix one up back to the prestigious commie rifle it once was
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Re: 7.62 x 54R???

Post by juststarting » 28 Jan 2017, 1:32 pm

Heckler303 is just a zealot. :twisted:
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Re: 7.62 x 54R???

Post by bladeracer » 28 Jan 2017, 1:36 pm

Heckler303 wrote:Bushie, I would question why you would want to own a mosin nagant. There are other surplus rifles out there that leave the mosin for dead. Partially because they can actually shoot and function far enough to allow movement of the bolt. I know the plethora of internet neckbearded armchair experts out there will tell you how great they are, how accurate mosins can shoot once you perform some kind of miracle with them...

To be really honest, mosin nagants are junk. Their balance is terrible, working the bolt is the equivalent to dragging a grand piano across a gravel beach, trigger's much the same, the sight picture is rubbish, the stock is uncomfortable and ugly as hell, and it's muzzle blast is horrendous, carbine versions especially. Anyone who's even sat next to one of them going off knows that their face is going to be covered in unburnt, cheap, rusky powder or having their hair singed. The only reason they gained their cult following was because they were a surplus rifle that while extremely cheap, can somehow be made to function without sending the bolt back into the user's face upon firing.

If you would like to get a surplus however, that shoots and functions well, take a look out for any of the Model 96, 98, K98 mauser variants out there, any of the .303s (No.1 mks, No 4 mk 1s and mk2s + No.5 jungle carbines) or even some of the more rare rifles like the Pattern 1914 and the M1917.



Have to agree with you Heckler, it is nice to shoot them, but they're not great either in design or accuracy. They're not even cheap these days. I paid $700 for my M91/30, $800 for my No.4 Rifle, $600 for my scoped M38, $500 for my M1904/39 and $200 for my M91/38 Carcano. The M38 out-shoots all of them by a wide margin (occasional 1MoA groups), with the M1904/39 close behind.
The 6.5x55mm M38 would be my first choice of milsurp for accuracy, but they're heavy and not legal for the bigger deer.
Not a fan of the .303's either. Also heavy, and I don't find them ergonomically very good. The No.4 peep sight is excellent though, and the ten-round capacity is handy.
A Mauser in 8x57mm is a great all rounder, and they're light and they generally shoot really well.
I really enjoy my M1904/39 Portuguese Mauser, but scoping it is a bastard.

For the cost of the milsurps though, you can buy a brand new Ruger, Howa or Savage that is lighter, more comfortable, way more accurate and in readily available calibers.
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Re: 7.62 x 54R???

Post by bladeracer » 28 Jan 2017, 1:44 pm

Bushie wrote:I've always been a fan of old mosins and it all comes down to my own personal preference, and the main reason I want a Mosin is so I can look at it, clean it up shoot it maybe once every few months and to just say "I have a Mosin" I'm not looking for a mil surplus rifle to use every weekend, basically more or less a collectors piece, plus being a student with a part time job i don't really have massive budgets so cheaper rifles are what suits me at the moment, somewhere down the track I would love to have a collection of mausers, lithgows and Everything in between, but ever since I was a little kid I've always loved the Mosin, and I would love to get one and fix one up back to the prestigious commie rifle it once was



All perfectly sound reasons :-)
Except for cost.
I don't consider the milsurps to be cheap, either to buy, own or shoot - even as a reloader.
The sheer pleasure of handling and shooting them makes them well worth the cost though for me.
If you truly want collector quality rifles then they're way more expensive. I prefer my milsurps to show what they've been subjected to.
If price is an issue then go with the new or secondhand modern rifles for regular use.
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Re: 7.62 x 54R???

Post by juststarting » 28 Jan 2017, 1:44 pm

Am I the only one who just doesn't like scoping anything milsurp that didn't come scoped? Like if it comes down to hunting, buy a modern Browning or Tikka or X... Frankly speaking, any old military surplus rifle is s**t compared to modern stuff. It's made to lower QA standards, it's heavy and cumbersome. But I suspect we don't buy surplus rifles for hunting. Not that you can't hunt with them. They are the just because guns :) for fun. And with that in mind, buy what feels right, not what shoots well (which is very subjective topic in itself, with a lot of variables).
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Re: 7.62 x 54R???

Post by bladeracer » 28 Jan 2017, 1:45 pm

Baldrick314 wrote:
Bushie wrote:I just called centreway and he said 28 bucks a box of 20, seems expensive but I suppose it's not a very popular round so what can you expect.


That's not bad, I got quoted $35/ 20 from the locals. That was Highland ammo though.



I agree, $28 is cheap for non-military ball ammo.
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Re: 7.62 x 54R???

Post by bladeracer » 28 Jan 2017, 1:48 pm

juststarting wrote:Am I the only one who just doesn't like scoping anything milsurp that didn't come scoped? Like if it comes down to hunting, buy a modern Browning or Tikka or X... Frankly speaking, any old military surplus rifle is s**t compared to modern stuff. It's made to lower QA standards, it's heavy and cumbersome. But I suspect we don't buy surplus rifles for hunting. Not that you can't hunt with them. They are the just because guns :) for fun. And with that in mind, buy what feels right, not what shoots well (which is very subjective topic in itself, with a lot of variables).



Agreed, scoping them does take away from the experience in my opinion.
But, if you're buying a milsurp as a regular shooting or hunting rifle then there's nothing wrong with scoping it.
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Re: 7.62 x 54R???

Post by juststarting » 28 Jan 2017, 1:53 pm

True, true.
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Re: 7.62 x 54R???

Post by Bushie » 28 Jan 2017, 1:55 pm

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_Pbquj-6MVc

I wouldn't be surprised if this is a one in a million Mosin that is actually accurate but this one is incredible
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Re: 7.62 x 54R???

Post by bladeracer » 28 Jan 2017, 2:22 pm

Bushie wrote:https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_Pbquj-6MVc

I wouldn't be surprised if this is a one in a million Mosin that is actually accurate but this one is incredible



Incredible?
Have you done much shooting yet?
A full-size silhouette at 200yds is easy for just about anything, even handguns, air rifles and blackpowder rifles. Blackpowder smoothbores might struggle though. I would expect even a shotgun with slugs and sights should be able to hit it more times than it misses.

I think most good milsurps should be able to hold their shots within about 3-4" at 100yds, some can do better than that, some are way worse. My M38 and M1904/39 are both very good examples, better than the average I think. But I've owned two M38's and an M96 and they were all very accurate.

If you do get a misurp that doesn't shoot great, there are usually things you can do to improve it, but it's all time and money better spent on a modern rifle in my opinion.
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Re: 7.62 x 54R???

Post by juststarting » 28 Jan 2017, 2:23 pm

Bushie wrote:https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_Pbquj-6MVc

I wouldn't be surprised if this is a one in a million Mosin that is actually accurate but this one is incredible


They all shoot like this. As long as the shooter does their part. Any military surplus rifle will perform like that. The End!
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Re: 7.62 x 54R???

Post by juststarting » 28 Jan 2017, 2:26 pm

bladeracer wrote: I would expect even a shotgun with slugs and sights should be able to hit it more times than it misses..


Once Bentaz's daughter starts dating, we'll have data to back this up.
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Re: 7.62 x 54R???

Post by Bushie » 28 Jan 2017, 2:43 pm

bladeracer wrote:
Bushie wrote:https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_Pbquj-6MVc

I wouldn't be surprised if this is a one in a million Mosin that is actually accurate but this one is incredible



Incredible?
Have you done much shooting yet?


Nah I've shot a little like couple guns in other countries and some shotguns here but still very new to all of it, I just figured a 100 something year old rifle that was mass produced as much as the Russians do hitting 200+ yrd targets was impressive is all!
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Re: 7.62 x 54R???

Post by bladeracer » 28 Jan 2017, 2:47 pm

Bushie wrote:Nah I've shot a little like couple guns in other countries and some shotguns here but still very new to all of it, I just figured a 100 something year old rifle that was mass produced as much as the Russians do hitting 200+ yrd targets was impressive is all!



I get you :-)
What area are you in?
I'm down in Gippsland, couple hours East of Melbs.
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Re: 7.62 x 54R???

Post by Bushie » 28 Jan 2017, 3:16 pm

bladeracer wrote:
Bushie wrote:Nah I've shot a little like couple guns in other countries and some shotguns here but still very new to all of it, I just figured a 100 something year old rifle that was mass produced as much as the Russians do hitting 200+ yrd targets was impressive is all!



I get you :-)
What area are you in?
I'm down in Gippsland, couple hours East of Melbs.


I'm on the other side of the state, 40 minutes west of the city in Melton, right near Bacchus Marsh
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Re: 7.62 x 54R???

Post by bladeracer » 28 Jan 2017, 4:05 pm

Bushie wrote:I'm on the other side of the state, 40 minutes west of the city in Melton, right near Bacchus Marsh


Bugger - thought we might manage to let you shoot my stuff :-)
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Re: 7.62 x 54R???

Post by Bushie » 28 Jan 2017, 4:17 pm

bladeracer wrote:
Bushie wrote:I'm on the other side of the state, 40 minutes west of the city in Melton, right near Bacchus Marsh


Bugger - thought we might manage to let you shoot my stuff :-)


Argh damn, would have loved that
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Re: 7.62 x 54R???

Post by Supaduke » 28 Jan 2017, 7:48 pm

You don't buy milsurps for accuracy. You by them for the history, the stories they carry. It's like comparing a 57 Chevy to a new commodore.
In 50 years the Chevy will still be cool.

The challenge of getting Milsurps to shoot accurately is second to none. Any punter can plop a modern rifle on the bench and drill sub MoA groups. Getting decent groups with a 70+ year old rifle with iron sights is a rewarding experience.

Collecting and shooting Milsurps is for the love of shooting and admiring old guns. If you want a tack driver, buy a modern sporting rifle.

Milsurps and Blackpowder rifles are for people who just 'get it'. They are cool, what other reason do you need?

And for the record, I am in the camp of not scoping milsurp rifles. But I understand why some do, especially older chaps with failing eyesight.

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Mosin 91/30
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Re: 7.62 x 54R???

Post by Bushie » 28 Jan 2017, 7:54 pm

Beautiful rifles Supaduke, every time I see an old rifle I always wonder what it's seen and where its been, love the history!
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Re: 7.62 x 54R???

Post by juststarting » 28 Jan 2017, 8:36 pm

Seriously, this is not going to end well for my wallet!
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Re: 7.62 x 54R???

Post by No1Mk3 » 28 Jan 2017, 8:38 pm

All those who think Nagants can't shoot, have never really tried. A fellow club member, using a M44 and surplus ammo, left all the Mauser fanboys, K98k, M38, M96, 1895 etc for dead at 300m at Little River. To rub salt in the wound, another member using a Berthier 1915 flogged them as well. The Trigger Nut determines accuracy in many cases.

Addendum: I would never consider any of my Mosin Nagants over my K31 for serious comp, but do sometimes use an M96.
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Re: 7.62 x 54R???

Post by juststarting » 28 Jan 2017, 8:45 pm

...and do your research, because this joker is selling 91/30, but this is clearly not a 91/30.

http://www.ozgunsales.com/listing/44752 ... 2x54r.html

Learn about it, markings, significance of production year, etc.
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Re: 7.62 x 54R???

Post by Bushie » 28 Jan 2017, 10:50 pm

juststarting wrote:...and do your research, because this joker is selling 91/30, but this is clearly not a 91/30.

http://www.ozgunsales.com/listing/44752 ... 2x54r.html

Learn about it, markings, significance of production year, etc.


That's an m44 right?
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Re: 7.62 x 54R???

Post by juststarting » 29 Jan 2017, 11:11 pm

Looks that way.
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