Cartridge Collectors

Calibres, cartridges, ballistics tables and ammunition information.

Cartridge Collectors

Post by MrFishimus » 03 May 2017, 2:07 pm

Hey all, does anyone on here collect ammo/cartridges? I've inherited a bunch and I'm looking for some info on some of them. Post your cartridge pics! :thumbsup:
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Re: Cartridge Collectors

Post by <<Genesis93>> » 04 May 2017, 10:48 am

You first.... then maybe we can help ya!
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Re: Cartridge Collectors

Post by No1Mk3 » 04 May 2017, 5:52 pm

I don't collect cartridges, as such, but I do have a quite large and varied reference set for reloading and identification purposes.Collecting here in Vic needs a specific Cartridge Collectors Licence. Post pics of the ones you want to know more about and the community can no doubt help. Cheers.
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Re: Cartridge Collectors

Post by duncan61 » 04 May 2017, 7:33 pm

I had a great collection including 416 Rigby and 458 Lott down to .22 cat shot
.22 winchester .22hornet .222 .243 7mm rem mag cbc 12g
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Re: Cartridge Collectors

Post by bladeracer » 04 May 2017, 7:37 pm

No1Mk3 wrote:Collecting here in Vic needs a specific Cartridge Collectors Licence.


But in Victoria we can own whatever ammunition we want to, why would we need a collector's licence?
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Re: Cartridge Collectors

Post by juststarting » 04 May 2017, 10:29 pm

Because I believe in VIC we are not allowed to be in possession of ammo that we don't own a rifle for.
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Re: Cartridge Collectors

Post by bladeracer » 04 May 2017, 10:51 pm

juststarting wrote:Because I believe in VIC we are not allowed to be in possession of ammo that we don't own a rifle for.



No, we're allowed to possess ammunition for any _category_ of firearm we're licenced to use.
There aren't many categories that restrict ammunition, perhaps some of the handgun calibers might be a problem for Cat A/B.
Even .50BMG is Cat B.
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Re: Cartridge Collectors

Post by juststarting » 04 May 2017, 11:13 pm

I stand corrected.
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Re: Cartridge Collectors

Post by No1Mk3 » 05 May 2017, 4:52 am

G'day bladeracer,
You aren't quite right, but close. As you posted from the Act, you can own any cartridge ammo that suits the category of your licence, so Cat A/B can own all rifle calibers, but very few pistol calibers. Cat H then also covers them, but if you have a significant number of calibers that you don't own a firearm for, then the Police MAY determine that there is sufficient prima facie evidence that you have a collection, and you would need to show otherwise or face confiscation of your licence and prosecution. This HAS already happened to some people, and although they had judgements in their favour, they were out of pocket and had months of no guns. Is it worth that angst? As I stated in my other post, I do NOT have a collection, but do own a reference set of obsolete cartridges as I collect 19thC handguns and rifles and use them for determining firearm chambering and reloading, Cheers.
PS: The above counts for LIVE ammo only, inert cartridges don't count.
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Re: Cartridge Collectors

Post by MrFishimus » 05 May 2017, 10:25 am

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So this was basically just all thrown in various bags, boxes and containers, so I spent the day yesterday trying to find them all. Some of them I know, others not so much. So far my favourites have been the Pinfire cartriges and the Sabots. Many more pics to come, I'll try not to overload (no pun intended) you all with pics.
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Re: Cartridge Collectors

Post by juststarting » 05 May 2017, 10:39 am

Overload away. We love this stuff.
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Re: Cartridge Collectors

Post by <<Genesis93>> » 05 May 2017, 10:46 am

juststarting wrote:I stand corrected.


NOW you're just lying....

You SIT corrected

(I can see you, I'm looking at you through the window, please put your pants on :shock: :silent: )
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Re: Cartridge Collectors

Post by juststarting » 05 May 2017, 10:48 am

Pants stay off!
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Post by Supaduke » 05 May 2017, 12:33 pm

Only on this forum can we go from cartridge collection legislation to peeping toms and lack of pants in one thread :)
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Post by MrFishimus » 05 May 2017, 1:36 pm

Ok, so here we go! First up, Some rimfire madness!

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Some shot shells, 50BMG and randoms

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Things in stripper clips and things.

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Some .303 and variants with some 7.62 Nato Blanks on the end.

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Ok, so here's the first ID question. Left is .30-06 and the right is .308.

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Head stamp for the above.

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Here's some Rimfire goodness. my best guess- L-R .22 short, .22RF, .22RF, .22LR, .22LR ratshot, ?, Old.22LR?, ?, ?, ?, .22mag

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RF headstamps

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.303 on left, ?

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Head stamp

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Re: Cartridge Collectors

Post by Deacon » 05 May 2017, 6:03 pm

i believe the littlest rimfire is a flobert. the next two are shorts.
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Post by No1Mk3 » 05 May 2017, 7:14 pm

Your first ID is an 8x57 Mauser, the P120 stamp is for Dynamit A.G. vormer Alfred Nobel & Co, Work Empelde, Germany. I.m off to work now, will do other headstamps later if no one else does them first, Cheers.
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Post by No1Mk3 » 05 May 2017, 7:39 pm

The last case, 36C over AI, is 6.5 x 53R Dutch Mannlicher, also known as 6.5 Romanian and .256 Flanged in English loadings. This particular case was loaded in 1936 and the case was made at Artillerie Inrichtingen in Holland
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Re: Cartridge Collectors

Post by Baz460 » 06 May 2017, 3:21 am

A few thumpers. The 3 besides the 22 are just there for comparison.
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Re: Cartridge Collectors

Post by MrFishimus » 06 May 2017, 7:43 am

Is it best to clean these all up with brasso?
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Post by on_one_wheel » 06 May 2017, 9:10 am

Cool as 8-)
Great collection and a great thread
I'll be adding my collection here soon. :thumbsup:
Perhaps one day SA will change the laws and make an instant criminal out of me as I own a few that I'm not chambered for.
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Re: Cartridge Collectors

Post by MrFishimus » 06 May 2017, 9:40 am

sungazer wrote:I could be wrong but those so called blanks on the end. I dont think are blanks. Blanks normally have the case crimped and no projectile in the case those seem to have a projectile in them and then a crimped projectile. They may be some type of tracer round or have something else in the hollow point.

Dont clean them if you want to retain any collectors value in them. Only clean them if it is really necessary and for your eyes only for ever.


Hey sungazer, they're deffo blanks. https://www.rebelgunworks.com.au/produc ... belt-100pk
What's the reason for no cleaning? I thought it'd be better if they weren't covered in crud? Also is it possible to reassemble that disintegrating link?
Cheers mate.
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Re: Cartridge Collectors

Post by Tiger650 » 06 May 2017, 9:50 am

http://cartridgecollectors.org/?page=headstampcodes

Found this a while back, may be useful ?
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Re: Cartridge Collectors

Post by MrFishimus » 06 May 2017, 10:22 am

Tiger650 wrote:http://cartridgecollectors.org/?page=headstampcodes

Found this a while back, may be useful ?


Good find Tiger650, very handy.
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Post by duncan61 » 06 May 2017, 11:17 am

First rimfire is cat shot.Just a primer and ball.You can still buy it.Then short and long.Nice collection
.22 winchester .22hornet .222 .243 7mm rem mag cbc 12g
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Re: Cartridge Collectors

Post by bladeracer » 06 May 2017, 1:17 pm

sungazer wrote:I could be wrong but those so called blanks on the end. I dont think are blanks. Blanks normally have the case crimped and no projectile in the case those seem to have a projectile in them and then a crimped projectile. They may be some type of tracer round or have something else in the hollow point.


They're plastic blanks - I have some in 5.56mm NATO I got from the SAS in Perth.
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Re: Cartridge Collectors

Post by bladeracer » 06 May 2017, 6:38 pm

sungazer wrote:Glad I'm wrong. It could be catastrophic to find out the hard way. Was it Bruce Lee that died from putting a gun to his head with a blank and it killed him from just the shock wave. Might have the person wrong but the event is true.

I mentioned the don't clean them as it certainly applies to old guns and pistols and a lot of antiques. Collectors want the old patina also a lot of damage can be done by people that clean things in the wrong way. You see it mentioned a lot on Pawn Stars on TV with the old guns that come in, some people have taken a wire brush to them and totally wrecked and devalued them.



Generally, those incidents occur because something is lodged in the bore in front of the blank cartridge and that becomes a bullet.
Rifle blanks do pack some punch but I'm not sure very many people have been fatally injured by pure, unwadded blanks.

Definitely, I cringed when I saw that polished brass :-)
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Re: Cartridge Collectors

Post by No1Mk3 » 06 May 2017, 6:59 pm

G'day bladeracer,
More than a few have been killed by blanks within 2 meters, autopsy usually shows fragments of the star crimp lodged in the heart or brain. Unlucky to die, but certainly possible. Wooden plugs on the other hand killed several Swedish soldiers before the adoption of the BFA.

G'day Mr Fishimus,
Collectors pay for originality, which includes a layer called "patina". Age can be faked but patina cannot, it only deposits with time. As originality draws a price premium, if you don't polish the items they will hold and improve in value, polish the patina off and they are junk. Conservation is a different story, and careful cleaning of the cartridge by someone who knows what they're doing can actually enhance the value. Cleaning is done with great care, using very fine brass wool or cloth only. Brasso is poison. I see some of the DG cartridges are already buggered, but save the rest, Cheers.
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Re: Cartridge Collectors

Post by MrFishimus » 08 May 2017, 2:45 pm

Ah, patina I get. I'm a car guy too. Here's a few more for consideration.

Here's 2 .38 specials

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What's got be buggered is the head stamp, I believe that .38 special was a police round ?? originally, so is that what's going on here?

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So here we have a .38 sp, a necked down .38sp and something else.

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Head stamps again

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.25?? Pinfire from ELEY

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Finally for today, what I think maybe a Japanese Nambu round, next to a 9mm.

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More to come in the future.
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Re: Cartridge Collectors

Post by No1Mk3 » 08 May 2017, 4:51 pm

G'day Mr Fishimus,
The 38Spl was a military round also, as was the 357Mag. Yours is Federal Cartridge 1957. Mil ammo was also loaded by Lake City (LC) as well as Winchester (WCC). The necked down case could be any number of wildcats, such as 30 Badger among others, both 38Spl and 357Mag are still popular cases to "play around" with. The case on the right is 7.62x39, the AK47 cartridge, yours was made at State Factory 71 in Northern China, who also load the commercial Norinco ammo. The Eley pinfire cartridge could be a wide number of calibers, you would need to accurately measure the bullet diameter at the case junction, case diameter and length, pin length, and distance of the pin from the end of the case. In the early days pinfire was very common and a huge number of variants exist, as well as revolvers to fire them including 12 and 18 shot revolvers! That last one is going to need a better (clearer) pic of the trademark for positive ID, but I can almost certainly say it is not Nambu. Imperial Army ammo was never headstamped, Imperial Navy ammo was but I haven't seen that type of stamping. At the moment I am leaning toward 8mm Kromar or perhaps Schonberger Auto? Would bet it was European at least. Can you measure case length, neck length, case base diameter and neck diameter, bullet at the case diameter and that would give me something to hunt, Cheers.
PS: You seem to have aquired quite a varied and interesting lot of cartridges.
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