Norma Brass

Calibres, cartridges, ballistics tables and ammunition information.

Norma Brass

Post by Member-Deleted » 10 Jun 2017, 6:59 pm

Has anybody had any experience with norma brass ?

I am finding it a little hard to get 25-06 brass up here in QLD but 2 days ago I obtained a pack of 100 and was wondering if
anybody has had any bad experiences with it

The reason I ask is that there is 3 more 100 packs available and if norma brass is good I will buy them and that should do me
for guiet awhile.

Cheers
Member-Deleted
 

Re: Norma Brass

Post by bigfellascott » 10 Jun 2017, 7:49 pm

It's usually regarded as good brass, I'd buy the rest of it if you are having trouble finding any brass.
User avatar
bigfellascott
Lieutenant General
Lieutenant General
 
Posts: 5289
-

Re: Norma Brass

Post by Member-Deleted » 10 Jun 2017, 8:01 pm

G'day bigfellascott

Yeah mate,I've tried 6 gun shops from Townsville to Brisbaneto no avail then stumbled onto one in brisbane that had 4 packs of 100
If it's usually reguared as good I may just take your advice.

cheers
Member-Deleted
 

Re: Norma Brass

Post by bladeracer » 11 Jun 2017, 12:23 am

grandadbushy wrote:Has anybody had any experience with norma brass ?

I am finding it a little hard to get 25-06 brass up here in QLD but 2 days ago I obtained a pack of 100 and was wondering if
anybody has had any bad experiences with it

The reason I ask is that there is 3 more 100 packs available and if norma brass is good I will buy them and that should do me
for guiet awhile.

Cheers


Norma is good stuff.
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: Norma Brass

Post by Gwion » 11 Jun 2017, 4:35 am

Very happy with mine. Been using it for about 18 months.
User avatar
Gwion
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3978
-

Re: Norma Brass

Post by No1Mk3 » 11 Jun 2017, 6:55 am

G'day grandadbushy,
Norma brass was once considered to be the best available for the reloader. I have brass that is 45 years old on it's 20th something loading and still going strong, though I anneal every use. Now RWS and Lapua are commonly available to compete, and in my own opinion Norma has fallen off quality since the Ruag Ammotec buyout of the company. It is still very very good, but ferociously expensive due to the current importers mark up, although it was never cheap. Neck sized and annealed, I would still expect 10-15 reloads from Norma brass without any great problems, Cheers.
No1Mk3
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
 
Posts: 2090
Victoria

Re: Norma Brass

Post by Bushie » 11 Jun 2017, 9:19 am

Grandad??
12G > Anything else
User avatar
Bushie
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 157
Victoria

Re: Norma Brass

Post by Member-Deleted » 11 Jun 2017, 1:27 pm

Bushie

Yeah, still a bushy,now a grandad,63 yr old,so past the plain old bushy stage.
Member-Deleted
 

Re: Norma Brass

Post by Member-Deleted » 11 Jun 2017, 1:50 pm

No1Mk3

Hi, sounds like you've used a lot of norma brass and GEEZ 20 or something loadings,sounds real good
As for price they are up there,Ipaid $1.18 each shell but when you can't get them it's a bit easier to swollow at that price
I'm going from remington to norma and hope the change won't affect the accuracy with a different capacity

Sounds like I've done the right thing judging by the feedback
so thanks to all
cheers
Member-Deleted
 

Re: Norma Brass

Post by Gwion » 11 Jun 2017, 2:02 pm

If you are swapping from one brass to another it would be worthwhile going back and reworking the load a bit. Not a full development but back off a touch and test some loads working back up to your current load.
User avatar
Gwion
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3978
-

Re: Norma Brass

Post by Member-Deleted » 11 Jun 2017, 6:15 pm

Hi Gwion

Yeah mate thats what I was after a bit of info like that,you suppose 3 gr's be enough?
Then go up in 1/2 gr at a time
Thanks for that info

cheers
Member-Deleted
 

Re: Norma Brass

Post by Gwion » 11 Jun 2017, 6:50 pm

grandadbushy wrote:Hi Gwion

Yeah mate thats what I was after a bit of info like that,you suppose 3 gr's be enough?
Then go up in 1/2 gr at a time
Thanks for that info

cheers


Really not familiar with that cartridge but i would be thinking of dropping back to about half way between your min load and the load you have now. Load about 5 each in either 1/2 grain or 0.3gn increments and shoot some groups. See where it is tightest and watch for pressure.
User avatar
Gwion
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3978
-

Re: Norma Brass

Post by bigfellascott » 11 Jun 2017, 8:29 pm

Gwion wrote:
grandadbushy wrote:Hi Gwion

Yeah mate thats what I was after a bit of info like that,you suppose 3 gr's be enough?
Then go up in 1/2 gr at a time
Thanks for that info

cheers


Really not familiar with that cartridge but i would be thinking of dropping back to about half way between your min load and the load you have now. Load about 5 each in either 1/2 grain or 0.3gn increments and shoot some groups. See where it is tightest and watch for pressure.


Never bothered mucking around with changing loads when using diff brass (I use 3 or 4 diff brands in the 222) mind you I only hunt so not concerned if groups open up slightly (I don't even batch them into diff brands anymore) I just load em up and shoot em - stuff falls over in the paddock and that's all that's important to me - mine aren't running flatout either so no real issues with pressure spikes etc.
User avatar
bigfellascott
Lieutenant General
Lieutenant General
 
Posts: 5289
-

Re: Norma Brass

Post by Gwion » 11 Jun 2017, 9:32 pm

Only mention it because he wasn't sure if it would effect accuracy, which it could slightly. The Norma (if similar to other cartridge sizes) will be heavier than the Rem brass and so have a different capacity. It does have the potential to throw the load out a bit so in my book it's easier to just run a test session than it is to find out in the field that POI or group size has been effected. It may not, as you have found BFS, but it also may.
User avatar
Gwion
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3978
-

Re: Norma Brass

Post by bigfellascott » 11 Jun 2017, 11:03 pm

Gwion wrote:Only mention it because he wasn't sure if it would effect accuracy, which it could slightly. The Norma (if similar to other cartridge sizes) will be heavier than the Rem brass and so have a different capacity. It does have the potential to throw the load out a bit so in my book it's easier to just run a test session than it is to find out in the field that POI or group size has been effected. It may not, as you have found BFS, but it also may.


Yeah I'd recommend using the same load he knows shoots well, see how that load goes in the new brass and make any changes after he knows what it's doing and if it needs it. :thumbsup:
User avatar
bigfellascott
Lieutenant General
Lieutenant General
 
Posts: 5289
-

Re: Norma Brass

Post by Member-Deleted » 12 Jun 2017, 10:02 am

Hi all ,
I run 25-06, 100 gr sierra with ar2209, 51 gr, only 1gr above adi max for that projectile
Getting 1/2''and less at 100yds so would like to keep that
I also hunt but mostly shoot wild dogs in my area and properties further out
The 25-06 is my go to gun on windy days and open country i normally shoot with 22-250,55gr but a bit iffy in the wind
It's like all feral shooting some shots are close and some are long so i would like to keep that accuracy
So now i should ease back a bit and be on the safe side and work up to my existing load
At the moment i'm getting 3249 fps average

I also shoot different brass in my 22-250 with no visable effect but did hear that it did affect larger calibers
So i will take all this info on board

Thanks again
Cheers
Member-Deleted
 

Re: Norma Brass

Post by Gwion » 12 Jun 2017, 10:30 am

If you are running a hot load I would at least drop back and load a series of single shot testers. A reduced case capacity will effect pressure, even if the case is stronger. I just work from the premise that it is better to be safe than have your face blown off...

I'd be willing to bet that a direct swap over load will no longer shoot the 1/2MOA you are currently getting. Might still be under a minute but I'd say there will be a difference. Depends how fussy you want to be. I can get very fussy indeed! :lol:
User avatar
Gwion
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3978
-

Re: Norma Brass

Post by Member-Deleted » 12 Jun 2017, 11:26 am

Gwion, yes i can get very fussy when it comes to accuracy because i like to know that what i shoot at hopfully gets hit
With the change with less capacity it would require a drop in powder to lessen pressure
I will have to fiddle with it to get the required outcome
Mate you wouldn't believe how finicky this rifle is i've used 3 boxes of 117gr hndy and 4 diff powders to no avail,1 box 115 nosler partition also to no avail
changed primers,fed,rem,cci and found rem 91/2 the best also fed GM210m not bad
It shoots any 100gr below 3/4'' It's a sako roughtech 26''barrel 1-10
I'm coming to the conclusion that it will only shoot the lighter bullets although i haven't tried 110gr
I would like a slightly heavier bullet than 100gr so as to shoot wild cattle when required by the property owners

Anyway thanks for the info
Member-Deleted
 

Re: Norma Brass

Post by Cooper » 26 Jun 2017, 10:01 pm

I only just worked out you get an extra case (1 extra piece of brass) per pack of Norma brass. Only had three packets to check and were 100 packs. Maybe it's different for 50 packs. But now I have 101 pieces to fit in my 100 ammo case.
Cooper
Sergeant
Sergeant
 
Posts: 539
Victoria

Re: Norma Brass

Post by juststarting » 26 Jun 2017, 10:34 pm

Cooper wrote:I only just worked out you get an extra case (1 extra piece of brass) per pack of Norma brass. Only had three packets to check and were 100 packs. Maybe it's different for 50 packs. But now I have 101 pieces to fit in my 100 ammo case.


I've noticed the same thing for a couple of calibers with Norma packs.
---
https://reloadingstudio.com
User avatar
juststarting
Captain
Captain
 
Posts: 2738
Victoria

Re: Norma Brass

Post by Member-Deleted » 01 Jul 2017, 7:33 pm

G'day juststarting

I hope that is the case of 1 extra case for 100 pack
Recieved my 25-06 100 pack of norma the other day and the first 20, one was dented bad enough i couldn't use it
I don't think it's a norma fault more so a transit handling fault,even so they do look to be a cut above the other brass
I've been using .

cheers
Member-Deleted
 

Re: Norma Brass

Post by Member-Deleted » 30 Aug 2017, 10:42 am

Well been there and done that, I 've been running the norma brass now for about 1mth and got it back to full load and shooting .3moa
exactly where it was when i spoke earlier in this forum on norma brass
There was no visible signs of any difference between the rem and norma brass only that the norma brass sealed better around the neck when fired
it didn't let gases back along the neck to leave soot along the length of the neck
The norma brass was left rather clean after firing
Also i found that the primer sockets were a better,tighter fit than the rem brass
So all in all the norma brass turned out excellent thanks for the info one and all

My next question though would be',' how often would you suggest annealing the necks'' ?
I've never really had a need to do so always had plenty of brass on hand but the old 25-06 brass has been a trifle hard to get so don't want to get
caught out and annealing looks like the way to go to get a bit more out of them
Although i've been getting about 5-8 loadings with my other rifles with rem and win brass
Member-Deleted
 

Re: Norma Brass

Post by bladeracer » 30 Aug 2017, 2:48 pm

sungazer wrote:if you are using the brass in the same rifle and only neck size, there are some very knowledgeable people who say annealing is not required. Then there are other that would say for the same parameters that every 3-5 firings and annealing should be done. Then there are others that have expensive machines that they are either selling or those that have bought them and they would say after every firing.


The brass work hardens every time you size it so eventually it will require annealing regardless of FLS or neck sizing. You fire the cartridge which stretches the neck out to fit the wall of the chamber. Then you compress it undersize to grip a bullet. Then you seat a bullet which stretches it out a little again. Every time you do this you are stretching and compressing that strip of brass by one or two percent of its length. Eventually when it blows opens to fit the chamber it will no longer stretch so it will split. It might happen after firing it five times or fifty times depending on a list of variables.
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: Norma Brass

Post by bladeracer » 30 Aug 2017, 5:11 pm

sungazer wrote:I know the process and like I say some very knowledgeable people including at least 1 long time gun smith to the precision shooters industry read benchrest and F class would disagree. I am only passing on information no need to try and argue the point with me. In fact this topic was recently brought up on ozFclass so have a look over there and you can argue with some of the countries top shooters.
In my custom guns the amount the neck size changes is next to negligible. There is no feel when resizing and I often wonder if it has changed. The neck opens only enough to release the projectile.


I'm not arguing with you :-)
In a custom F-Class chamber there would be less stretching of the brass, but I assume we're talking here about general firearms. They often also have very light grip on the bullet, which we wouldn't want in magazine-fed rifles.
And I would also expect precision shooters probably replace their brass long before they'd see any splitting anyway, or are you suggesting they go hundreds of loads with no annealing and no splitting on their brass?
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: Norma Brass

Post by Gwion » 31 Aug 2017, 2:35 am

It's not about a "good" chamber or a bad one. It is weather or not the chamber is reamed to match custom specs. Many custom chambers are reamed for turned necks to have as little a one thou clearance on a turned neck. In these instances and when neck sizing with a collet die, the brass would undergo very little work.
People who speak in absolutes about weather annealing is necessary are not taking in the whole story. I don't care how much 'experience' they have. In their application, with their gear, they may not find it necessary but there is no question that in many cases, annealing is definitely required if you don't want to replace brass all the time. I've had Remington brass fail at the neck on the 7th firing, or there abouts, in my 223 and that was neck sized from day one.
User avatar
Gwion
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3978
-

Re: Norma Brass

Post by marksman » 31 Aug 2017, 8:41 am

Gwion wrote:
I'd be willing to bet that a direct swap over load will no longer shoot the 1/2MOA you are currently getting. Might still be under a minute but I'd say there will be a difference. Depends how fussy you want to be. I can get very fussy indeed! :lol:


I agree
IMO any change to the recipe needs to be worked up again, or at least tested cautiously
norma brass is consistent but a bit soft I have found it gets a bit loose in the primer pockets quicker than some others with the same loads
I use it in 308 and 30-06
“If you do not read the newspapers you are uninformed. If you do read the newspapers you are misinformed”. Mark Twain
User avatar
marksman
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3660
Victoria

Re: Norma Brass

Post by Gwion » 31 Aug 2017, 9:27 am

You're getting the good accuracy but is it the same load as you were using with your old brass or is the charge and other specs slightly different?
User avatar
Gwion
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3978
-

Re: Norma Brass

Post by Member-Deleted » 31 Aug 2017, 3:57 pm

Yeah mate its exactly the same load as before, quiet surprising i thought maybe 1/2gr here 1/2gn there but no exactly the same
Also i dropped it back 2gr and worked it back up to 51gr of AR 2209 for 3232fps AV got 30fps difference between shots of 8
I'm also fussy maybe too much so in my honest opinion if i can't get a rifle to shoot .7 i don't use it for my work i sell it so how fussy is that
Not a skite just a fussy old bastard who likes to kill with one shot where possible if i don't then its not the rifles fault and then i know what to fix
When i first bought the 25-06 i wasn't impressed couldn't get it to shoot until i found out it wouldn't shoot 110-120gr accurately but since using
100gr and new glass it is lethal i use it more for dogs than my 22-250 now mainly because i don't have to get too close and risk loosing them
Member-Deleted
 

Re: Norma Brass

Post by Gwion » 31 Aug 2017, 4:00 pm

Nice one. Interesting that new brass has exactly the same load! I would have done my dosh on a bet for that one.
User avatar
Gwion
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3978
-

Re: Norma Brass

Post by Member-Deleted » 31 Aug 2017, 4:03 pm

Marksman what type of loads are you putting in them are they light or hot ?
I run 1gr over max in the adi book But will keep an eye on it

Thanks
Member-Deleted
 

Next

Back to top
 
Return to Calibres, cartridges and ballistics