450 Bushmaster

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450 Bushmaster

Post by Goshawk » 29 Jun 2017, 5:48 pm

Hi all,
Has anyone used 450 Bushmaster for hunting yet? What did you think of it? Looking at it for a possible next bush rifle. Pigs, sambar and odd rabbit...

Is it more powerful than 308w, 357w, 338 federal (the larger short action cals).

Cheers
Last edited by Goshawk on 29 Jun 2017, 7:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 450 Bushmaster

Post by bladeracer » 29 Jun 2017, 6:49 pm

My local has some .450 Rugers arriving in a couple weeks so I might grab one then.
I have four moulds for my .45 blackpowder rifle so it just seems neat to use them in the .450 Bushmaster as well :-)

I doubt it has the punch of the full-power short-action cartridges. I'm guessing it'll be more akin to a 16" 45/70.
It's an odd bullet size though as it's .452" rather than the more usual .458". Hornady do a single 250gn FTX .452" specifically for the Bushmaster. Pistol bullets will probably be the fodder of choice.
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Re: 450 Bushmaster

Post by AZZA'S HJ47 » 06 Jul 2017, 10:15 pm

Had a look at the 450 when i was last at the gun shop not a great deal of ammo or even projectiles on paper it looks like a promising cal i ended up purchasing a 45/70 expensive but almostv every gun shop has something available if i wanted anything.
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Re: 450 Bushmaster

Post by Mitch » 07 Jul 2017, 5:15 am

I didnt like the lack of projectiles available.
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Re: 450 Bushmaster

Post by bladeracer » 07 Jul 2017, 3:27 pm

Mitch wrote:I didnt like the lack of projectiles available.


I've had a look around already.
One thing I've noticed is that often manufacturers list .451" bullets for cartridges that specify a .452" bullet.
If .451" bullets work fine in the BM than that opens up the whole range of 45ACP handgun bullets.

Hornady - .452"
200gn FTX
225gn FTX
250gn FTX
240gn XTP
250gn XTP
300gn XTP
300gn XTP Mag

200gn Lead CT
200gn Lead SWC
230gn Lead LRN
255gn Lead FP Cowboy - .454"
They also do .45 caliber sabots with a 200gn .40-cal SST - no idea if they'll work in a rifle barrel though.

Speer .452"
250gn DCHP
300gn DCHP

250gn Lead 45 Colt SWC

CEB .452"
160gn FB Copper Raptor
250gn FB Copper Raptor

LeHigh .452"
250gn XTP
220gn XTD
135gn XTD
300gn WFN
245gn Bushmaster XTP
And they offer four .452" muzzleloader bullets

Sellier & Bellot .452"
230gn FMJ

Swift .452"
265gn AFHP
300gn AFHP
325gn AFHP

Hawk .452"
260gn HP
300gn HP
300gn SPZ
300gn FP
350gn FP

CBE moulds
.455" 250gn FNBB
.454" 365gn FNPB
.454" 350gn RNGC
.454" 310gn CNGC
.454" 280gn FNGC
.454" 270gn FNGC
.454" 255gn WA
.454" 250gn SWCGC
.454" 240gn FNPB
.454" 220gn RNPB
.453" 235gn BNWCPB
.453" 170gn BNWCPB
And another eighteen .452" moulds that could work.

Lyman moulds
.454" 250gn RN

Ammunition for 450 Bushmaster
Remington 260gn Premier Accutip
Remington 275gn Barnes XPB? (listed in Remington's ballistic chart)
Hornady 250gn FTX
Hornady 250gn FTX Black
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Re: 450 Bushmaster

Post by bladeracer » 07 Jul 2017, 8:14 pm

bentaz wrote:So not many then lol!



It is a problem ;-)
They only range from 135gn up to 350gn as well which limits its uses a bit.
I would expect you would have to order the bullets you want, I wouldn't expect to find many sitting on shelves.
But I think the real solution is casting your own.
CBE moulds are made here and cover 170gn up to 365gn cast bullets.
They're not cheap at $100+post for a single-cavity, but .462" bullets aren't cheap either. The mould would probably pay for itself within 200 bullets.
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Re: 450 Bushmaster

Post by Goshawk » 08 Jul 2017, 5:22 pm

One review recommends barnes projectiles
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Re: 450 Bushmaster

Post by bladeracer » 08 Jul 2017, 6:09 pm

Goshawk wrote:One review recommends barnes projectiles



I've seen a few mentions of Barnes, but I haven't found any .452" Barnes bullets.
Until I try .451" bullets myself I can't really say whether they work effectively in the 450 Bushmaster or not.
The .450 doesn't make huge velocities though so I can't see a real need to run jacketed bullets. The Ruger American is a 16" twist which should work just fine with cast lead.
They're running 400gn bullets at 1500fps, and 300gn at 1800fps.
http://www.450bm.com/

I look at the 450BM as nothing more than a snub-nosed 45/70.
Although it has the .308 case head, the case is larger than the .308 so the 10rd AICS mags only hold nine rounds. Not sure I'd really want to shoot ten in one go though :-)
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Re: 450 Bushmaster

Post by DEADMEAT » 26 Aug 2017, 2:11 pm

.451 is fine. I loaded some today for snitz and giggle, and the flames were intense (180gn pistol projectiles....useless but amusing) . The SAMMI tolerance is ..4525 - .003, so with 3 thou available, going one thou down to .451 is sweet. I mic'd the .452 Hornady XTPs at .4515 anyway.

Just be careful with the Hornady dies; the instructions include how to crimp using the built in ROLL CRIMP in the bullet seating die. DO NOT WANT!!

Only use the TAPER CRIMP die and crimp to .476 measured at the top of the case mouth.
This cartridge headspaces off the case mouth. If you roll a crimp into the cannellure you might end up with the brass and bullet going into the throat....and pressure will spike dramatically on ignition. That would be bad, mmmkay.
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Re: 450 Bushmaster

Post by bladeracer » 26 Aug 2017, 6:14 pm

DEADMEAT wrote:.451 is fine. I loaded some today for snitz and giggle, and the flames were intense (180gn pistol projectiles....useless but amusing) . The SAMMI tolerance is ..4525 - .003, so with 3 thou available, going one thou down to .451 is sweet. I mic'd the .452 Hornady XTPs at .4515 anyway.

Just be careful with the Hornady dies; the instructions include how to crimp using the built in ROLL CRIMP in the bullet seating die. DO NOT WANT!!

Only use the TAPER CRIMP die and crimp to .476 measured at the top of the case mouth.
This cartridge headspaces off the case mouth. If you roll a crimp into the cannellure you might end up with the brass and bullet going into the throat....and pressure will spike dramatically on ignition. That would be bad, mmmkay.


Good info.
Do they need crimping? I've only really had to crimp 6.5x52mm as the 160gn bullets come loose in the mag.
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Re: 450 Bushmaster

Post by DEADMEAT » 27 Aug 2017, 1:20 am

Yes. If starting out for the first time using the 1in16" RAR or GSR barrels from ruger, please taper crimp to .475-.476.5 This is where you want to be for safe pressures during development, which is where we all in Australia are I think.

Im off tommorrow to do some Lil' Gun and W296 testing. Just for pressure signs using the 300gn XTP to get some data. Picking up new chrono and will report back in the arvo methinks.

(I had a chrono for archery some years back. It.........fell down some stairs?)
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Re: 450 Bushmaster

Post by DEADMEAT » 27 Aug 2017, 1:21 am

Yes. If starting out for the first time using the 1in16" RAR or GSR barrels from ruger, please taper crimp to .475-.476.5 This is where you want to be for safe pressures during development, which is where we all in Australia are I think.

Im off tommorrow to do some Lil' Gun and W296 testing. Just for pressure signs using the 300gn XTP to get some data. Picking up new chrono and will report back in the arvo methinks.

(I had a chrono for archery some years back. It.........fell down some stairs?)
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Re: 450 Bushmaster

Post by DEADMEAT » 27 Aug 2017, 4:56 pm

Bad News: The Chrony is fubar :( cheap caldwell P.O.S. thinks Im doing 5700fps.

Good news: Didn't stop me doing the following pressure tests with Lil Gun and W296.

With confirmation of the GSR being tough enough, I will have some FPS load data tomorrow with another chrony, and then some accuracy testing. Today I just want to confirm durability and safety and I began with Hornadys load data from a few years ago. From what I gathered without a chrony, looking at physical pressure signs only there is a lot more to go with the Ruger Scout rifle using the 300 XTP and powder combos that Hornady tested.

***AS ALWAYS dont take my word for it. Find and use the published Hornady data as I did.

I only post this as confirmation that in my experience using the Hornady data, a brand new cleaned and inspected Aus delivered Ruger Gunsite Scout chambered in 450 Bushmaster and using quality reloading equipment, that the published data is accurate in my testing. Also, Lil' Gun and W296 are filthy s**ty powders to work with. They stick to everything and are a pain in the arse to empty from the RCBS Chargemaster. They are nothing like the rifle powders Im used to loading anyway. Pistol loaders will agree im sure :)

For todays results: Only two rounds of each were fired using the data from Hornady to confirm the 1in16" Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle can handle them. As there is no factory loaded ammo available here (yet), I shot and observed the following at Mickett Creek SSAA range, 27-08-2017, 12.20pm Darwin NT. 33 degrees, sunny, dry and the gentlest of breeze. Shooting offhand at a 25m target through the irons. Ammo was loaded the night before in air conditioned room with Biggy Smalls playing on the Sonos.

300gn Hornady XTP projectile. (not the Mag)
New Hornady case, FLS in Hornady die. Flared, Seated, Crimped with the same die set. (546452) Forster press,forster primer, chargemaster scale double checked on RCBS beam scale, RCBS tin of lube was used and the cases measured ~1.698 ave using a digital mitutoyo caliper. Overall length they came to 2.065. At $85 a bag for the brass, they still resemble the ****** Starline stuff :(

CCI small rifle BR-4 primer
COAL 2.065
Taper Crimped only to .476@case mouth.

Hodgdon Lil' Gun:
25.5 No pressure signs. Very comfortable
27.2 No pressure signs. Very comfortable
28.8 No pressure signs. Very comfortable
30.5 No pressure signs. No bolt lift change, no extractor smears or other visible signs. Starting to see some good muzzle flash from observers P.O.V.
32.2 Just starting to see the slightest cratering beginning on primer. Bolt lift is the same, no smears on case head from ejector or extractor.
***33.0 NOT TESTED BY HORNADY Similar cratering to 32.2 load. No smears, no bolt lift issue. Starting to feel like 45-70 short barrel recoil.
***33.5 NOT TESTED BY HORNADY Cratering is visible, primer is starting to flatten. Bolt lift is still the same. Case soot is starting to clear.

Winchester 296
28.7 Noticibly sharper recoil than Lil' Gun. More crack than whack. No pressure signs at all on the case. Flames already. (cool!)
30.6 Same as above, no pressure signs, bolt lift the same, every thing looking good. Much less soot on case exterior.
32.6 No pressure signs, starting to feel the recoil but maybe thats just me. Felt like limits must be approaching, but apparently not
34.5 Starting to see some cratering. Bolt lift feels great, no smears. Recoil is starting to be rather firm.
*** 35.0 NOT TESTED BY HORNADY Really starting to feel like my 45-70. Muzzle flash is farkin awesome!! Bolt lift is fine, cant see any smears but on both cases, there is prominent cratering compared to the 34.5 load.



Back tomorrow :)
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Re: 450 Bushmaster

Post by Kiwi Greg » 04 Sep 2017, 12:59 pm

Been mucking around with the 450 BM for a few years, mainly in bolt actions, lately in a couple of AR15 uppers.
Great wee round tons of punch & generally pretty accurate both sub & supersonic.
A few rifles Iv'e built here

These both have 12" barrels & McMillan stocks.

The first one is a T3 Tikka, for supers & maybe subs.

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Kimber 84M actioned 450 Bushmaster

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Another one

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Amazing how far you can shoot a 250 FTX - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqkLUrfuFDs

A recent victim of the AR15 with 275 TSX.

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Re: 450 Bushmaster

Post by bladeracer » 24 Sep 2017, 5:49 am

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