25-06 twist rate

Calibres, cartridges, ballistics tables and ammunition information.

25-06 twist rate

Post by Member-Deleted » 31 Jul 2017, 8:28 pm

Anybody have any experience with 25-06 twist rates ?
I have one in 1-10 twist and having trouble with grouping from 100gr projectiles up to 120gr
Tried large number of various brands in this weigh range but no better, different powders,primers and still average
110gr@ 1'' TO 117-120GR @21/2'' TO 3'' , compared to cutting 5 holes to clover leaf with 100gr sierra matchking
Been told and read on many occasions that 1-10 won't stabilize projectiles over 105gr but when i bought the rifle gunsmith at the gunshop
maintained it would , maybe i should have stuck with getting a 1-9

although it does the job with 100gr i would like to have used 117gr for piece of mind on larger animals


Cheers
Member-Deleted
 

Re: 25-06 twist rate

Post by bladeracer » 31 Jul 2017, 11:58 pm

grandadbushy wrote:Anybody have any experience with 25-06 twist rates ?
I have one in 1-10 twist and having trouble with grouping from 100gr projectiles up to 120gr
Tried large number of various brands in this weigh range but no better, different powders,primers and still average
110gr@ 1'' TO 117-120GR @21/2'' TO 3'' , compared to cutting 5 holes to clover leaf with 100gr sierra matchking
Been told and read on many occasions that 1-10 won't stabilize projectiles over 105gr but when i bought the rifle gunsmith at the gunshop
maintained it would , maybe i should have stuck with getting a 1-9

although it does the job with 100gr i would like to have used 117gr for piece of mind on larger animals


Cheers


I don't have any experience with 25/06, but from what I'm seeing a 10" twist is really only useful under about 100gn, above that and the manufacturers are specifying tighter twists.
Berger want 9" for the 115gn VLD.
Barnes want 9" for their 115gn TSX.
Cutting Edge want 10" for their 100gn MTH, but 8" for their 115gn MTH.
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12654
Victoria

Re: 25-06 twist rate

Post by Member-Deleted » 01 Aug 2017, 3:08 am

Yeah that sounds pretty much the situation with 1-10 just that the smithy was so sure it would work and that had me wondering
Up until i bought this 25-06 i hadn't had much to do with that caliber at all
Berger and Barnes wouldn't call for 1-9 twist for their 115 gn if there wasn't something behind it
I can't keep spending money trying to develope a load for 110gr up to 120gr when it most likely won't shoot any better
Like i said in the question it shoots quiet well with 75gr up to 100gr projectiles,so it looks as though i may have been better off with a 1-9
I suppose i'll have to make do with it now after all its only a new rifle and i don't think the wife would be too happy if i wanted to rebarrel it especially
after deciding to go with the 1-10 after talking to the gun smith

Anyway thanks for the info Cheers
Member-Deleted
 

Re: 25-06 twist rate

Post by Gwion » 01 Aug 2017, 10:53 am

Good lord. This sounds like the LGS owners in another thread who maintain there is no such thing as a .224cal bullet!!!

F'gods sake, how can you call yourself a gunsmith and not even be able to look up twist rates on a bullet manufacturer's web site!??!

:thumbsdown:

I'd be having some polite but serious words with this "gunsmith" pointing out the available information on twist rates and that you expressly asked to be able to shoot the longer bullets! He has wasted your money and not delivered what was requested. :thumbsdown:
User avatar
Gwion
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3978
-

Re: 25-06 twist rate

Post by Member-Deleted » 01 Aug 2017, 1:29 pm

Yeah Gwion your right and i have but after thinking about it maybe i should shoulder a little blame for not doing my homework better
rather than rely on his say so after all he was trying to sell something
But he is only hurting himself by handing out information like that because i'm thinking of rebarreling another rifle and he won't be doing it

You know its funny that shop with a different gunsmith put a 26''s/s 1-7 or 8 barrel on my 22-250 ackley and i couldn't get it to shoot anything over 60gr
projectiles , i happen to chase up all the paper work up on it just lately and it was actually a 1-10 or 1-12 i'm not sure just offhand

I had ordered a 1-8 so as to shoot much heavier projectiles as i already had a 22-250 with 1-14 twist shooting 55gr

The other gunshop is about 400klm away but it probably would be cheaper and better to deal with them

Cheers
Member-Deleted
 

Re: 25-06 twist rate

Post by Member-Deleted » 01 Aug 2017, 1:49 pm

On a lighter note just returned from out the paddock where i sight my rifles in , just put a new swarovski z3 4-12x50 on the 25 /06 after the vortex that came with it
shat itself
Had all figures from swarovski ballistic calculator away i went 100gr matchking, 51gr 2209 and ''WOW'' finally my luck has changed
zero @ 200yds worked up to 407yds run out of paddock got about 3'' group at that , better than i expected after all the drma with the barrel twist rate

I am now a happy old vegemite

Cheers
Member-Deleted
 

Re: 25-06 twist rate

Post by 308cool » 01 Aug 2017, 4:02 pm

Hey mate I have a 25-06 in a 24" x-bolt (1:10 twist) and I went through about 200 reloads before I could get below 1 Moa. It's a finicky caliber. One thing I definitely noticed is that flat based bullets shot a lot better then boat tails in my rifle. I tried 100g nosler balistic tips and 117g sst's and only one powder charge well above max charge with the nosler BT's resulted in a group less then 1 Moa. I then tried sierra 100g pro hunters and got down to about .8 moa (my goal was .6 Moa or better). I started doing some research as I heard the caliber and the x-bolt are both accurate and a load I often saw posted was 49grs h4350 (use ar2209) with sierra 117g pro-hunters (don't use the game king) seated About 15-20 thou off the lands. Loaded these up and straight away I got consistent .4-.5" groups at 100yrd. Decided to try .5 gr up and .5 gr down and both groups opened slightly to about .7 moa so I'm going to leave it as is. Give these a try and let me know how you go. The bullets are also the cheapest I tried at $50 for 100.
Cheers
- Browing X-Bolt .25-06 / Meopta Meopro 4-12x50
308cool
Private
Private
 
Posts: 74
New South Wales

Re: 25-06 twist rate

Post by Gwion » 01 Aug 2017, 4:44 pm

grandadbushy wrote:On a lighter note just returned from out the paddock where i sight my rifles in , just put a new swarovski z3 4-12x50 on the 25 /06 after the vortex that came with it
shat itself
Had all figures from swarovski ballistic calculator away i went 100gr matchking, 51gr 2209 and ''WOW'' finally my luck has changed
zero @ 200yds worked up to 407yds run out of paddock got about 3'' group at that , better than i expected after all the drma with the barrel twist rate

I am now a happy old vegemite

Cheers


Nice! Swaros are just too nice. Stop it, you're making me jealous! :problem: :silent: :unknown: One day... maybe....

What Vortex was on it that crapped out??? You know they will replace it, don't you? Vortex lifetime warranty, that's life of the product, no matter first, second or 58th owner, no questions asked. That's their warranty claim anyway.
User avatar
Gwion
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3978
-

Re: 25-06 twist rate

Post by Bent Arrow » 01 Aug 2017, 6:02 pm

Hmmm. I've got a tikka T3 Hunter in 25-06 that's (meant to be) 1in10 twist and I get reasonable groups with federal 117 gn factory ammo. This is is good as I've managed so far at 100m over a bipod, but I'm a crap shot and need to work on my technique.

Im pretty sure my bad groups are all me. But... based on your comments that a 1:10 will struggle with projectiles over 100 gn maybe I should buy a couple of boxes of lighter projectiles just to see what happens.......
Attachments
_20170801_172756.JPG
_20170801_172756.JPG (1.08 MiB) Viewed 9002 times
Bent Arrow
Staff Sergeant
Staff Sergeant
 
Posts: 753
South Australia

Re: 25-06 twist rate

Post by Gwion » 01 Aug 2017, 7:01 pm

Bent Arrow wrote:Hmmm. I've got a tikka T3 Hunter in 25-06 that's (meant to be) 1in10 twist and I get reasonable groups with federal 117 gn factory ammo. This is is good as I've managed so far at 100m over a bipod, but I'm a crap shot and need to work on my technique.

Im pretty sure my bad groups are all me. But... based on your comments that a 1:10 will struggle with projectiles over 100 gn maybe I should buy a couple of boxes of lighter projectiles just to see what happens.......



Wouldn't be complaining about that from a hunter weight barrel. But then, we all have different expectations and standards for accuracy (precision). Also, i'd be expecting more from a rebarrelled rifle with a premium barrel than from a factory Tikka..... not that they are in any way a bad rifle.
User avatar
Gwion
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3978
-

Re: 25-06 twist rate

Post by Member-Deleted » 01 Aug 2017, 7:31 pm

Gwion it was a vortex h-st 6-24x50 with ballistic turrets it was supposed to be made i the usa but they are actually made in the philipines under contract
the pst models are made in the usa

The local gunshop realy didn't want anything to do with it saying it was probably my shooting because they had had no complaints ever about vortex scopes
Since then i have learnt otherwise because word gets around in small areas
Anyway i got intouch with an importer of vortex in brisbane and he actually said that it was a fault of the innerds and they would come loose
he said that he would replace it eventually but by this time i had had vortex and got in touch with the local gun shop by fronting up early one morning before any customers had arrived a few heavy exchanges of me going public with this soon got them to agree on exchanging the vortex plus a couple of hundred dollars
for the swarovski, ''Happy Days''

Cheers
Member-Deleted
 

Re: 25-06 twist rate

Post by Gwion » 01 Aug 2017, 7:51 pm

Ah... good result!

I was thinking you must have shelled out for the Swaro on top of losing the Vortex.

So, are you saying that the HS-T has the dodgey internals as a known fault common to the model?
User avatar
Gwion
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3978
-

Re: 25-06 twist rate

Post by Member-Deleted » 01 Aug 2017, 7:52 pm

308cool i actually recieved some 100gr GameKing projectiles in the mail this arvo and quickly loaded 5 with 51gr 2209 also same as the matchkings 100gr
got exactly 1'' nothing like the MatchKings''clover leaf''

But it looks as though they may shoot well so i'll tinker with them a bit more
And yes i also think it is a finicky caliber a gr either way makes a big difference

I'll use the MatchKings for my every day wild dogs because i got a big bitch at about 5.30pm today and ''YEP'' ample for that

Thanks for the info C heers
Member-Deleted
 

Re: 25-06 twist rate

Post by Member-Deleted » 01 Aug 2017, 8:12 pm

Well Gwion mine did and i was told by the fellow i contacted in brisbane that he had had quiet a few comebacks in that model but on saying that how many do they sell
probably thousands but i wasn't going to take that risk after all the drama i've had with this rifle, and now finally sorted

Also i do know of 4 in my area same hst having tracking problems and i presume its loose innerds because thats how mine started before having 12mths of frustration

I'm not qualified to say it is an inherent fault in them but it is shaping up like that

And no i didn't fork out for the lot again i think they realized i was prepared to get a fair outcome for both sides what ever road they wanted to take

Cheers
Member-Deleted
 

Re: 25-06 twist rate

Post by Member-Deleted » 01 Aug 2017, 8:29 pm

GEEZ Bent Arrow nothing wrong with that with 117gr, Tikka you say well theres a bloke up here with a Tikka in 25-06 and it shoots any thing from
75gr to 120gr ''go figure'' and i've got a sako roughtech range 25-06 26'' heavy barrel same1-10 twist and $450 dearer than his and he has the more versatile
rifle maybe i should have bought a Tikka they seem to have a good rifling

Cheers
Member-Deleted
 

Re: 25-06 twist rate

Post by Strikey » 01 Aug 2017, 8:52 pm

The 1 in 10 twist rate is correct for the 25 cal, I had a 25/06 for a quite a few years, loved it, but could never get it to group all 5 shots under a 1 inch, always one or two fliers, but it would tighten up if run at max loads of 2209 or 2213 and later on with 2213sc. There is a theory that the long powder column is not conducive to accuracy, good hunting accuracy just not good on paper. I have stayed with the 25 calibre, my favourite being the 250 Savage Ackley Improved, not finicky to reload and is a tack driver with identical or slightly better velocities than the 25/06 with less powder, great round :thumbsup:

Edit:: forgot to add the Berger 115VLD's are the most accurate projectile I have used in the 250AI, with 1 in 10 twist, consistently well under •5moa but they do like a bit of jump, in my rifle others may vary.
Strikey
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 316
Queensland

Re: 25-06 twist rate

Post by Member-Deleted » 01 Aug 2017, 9:11 pm

Yep i'm hearing you Strikey but i tightened mine up with MatchKing 100gr just touching the lands, move them away and it would open the group
slightly also found 2209 had an edge on 2213sc with the lighter projectiles

If 100gr 25 cal won't do the job for me after all the drama i've had with rifles this year i'll sell them all and get a 7mm with a twist to shoot 168gr to 175gr
Back to one rifle

Cheers
Member-Deleted
 

Re: 25-06 twist rate

Post by Gwion » 02 Aug 2017, 12:25 am

grandadbushy wrote: i'll sell them all and get a 7mm with a twist to shoot 168gr to 175gr
Back to one rifle

Cheers


Now you're talking sense! :lol: :clap: :drinks: :lol: :silent:
User avatar
Gwion
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3978
-

Re: 25-06 twist rate

Post by Member-Deleted » 06 Aug 2017, 10:38 pm

Well got out in the wide open spaces for two days this weekend to set up the new swarovski on the 25-06 and tinker with more load finding and
boy what an eye opener grouping 2.5'' @ 400yrd only got to 400yrd run out of daylight on last day, but do expect grouping to open up beyond 400yrd
4-12x50 swarovski etched reticle , once load is developed visit swarovski ballistic caculator on line ,feed in info on ammo and it will calculate all you need to know
about that bullet
What i did find out was the height from sight to bore has to be exact,it took me two goes because it stated that .2'' was tolerable but its not
So once info was correct and got the calculations it was perfect out to the 400yrd
Next weekend i will tread from 400yrd into the unknown and hopfully have some luck on the way
Member-Deleted
 

Re: 25-06 twist rate

Post by Gwion » 06 Aug 2017, 10:48 pm

Good stuff!
User avatar
Gwion
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3978
-

Re: 25-06 twist rate

Post by Member-Deleted » 06 Aug 2017, 11:00 pm

Mate i've never been known to shoot that good so its gota be the swaro (LOL)
Geez the glass is so clear and once you get used to the z3 etched reticle its a breeze, by the way it shoots as good as my 22-250 and handles a better breeze
Finally mate, Finally

Cheers
Member-Deleted
 

Re: 25-06 twist rate

Post by Gamerancher » 07 Aug 2017, 10:29 am

Mate, a 25cal 100gr bullet @ over 3000f/s will drop anything that breathes. ( Ask me how I know ;) )
Then you tell us the rifle shoots under 3" @ 400yds? Where is the problem? :unknown:
Go the 1/4 bore!!! :thumbsup:
Top shelf Euro optics, those that reckon their "better value" scopes are just as good have obviously never looked through any. :allegedly:
User avatar
Gamerancher
Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major
 
Posts: 1596
New South Wales

Re: 25-06 twist rate

Post by Member-Deleted » 07 Aug 2017, 11:47 am

Yeah Gamerancher i hear you ,although the 1/4 bore is still new to me at present but she will be my third arm shortly
No problems yet with euro scope and rifle but had problems with another scope that come with the rifle as a package deal ( Hence the Finally,Finally bit )
Also had a few problems with bullet weight she only likes 75 -100gr anything over that opens up to 2'' or above @100yds at best
The reason i'm amazed with the 25-06 is that it seems about 50% of people with them say they're only getting around 1'' grouping @ 100yds with various ammo
If i do my bit i can put 5 shots into a clover leaf under the size of a ten cent piece

I'm getting average of 3232 fps with 51gr AR2209 with 91/2 rem primers
I have a zeiss 3-12x50 on my 22-250 but the swaro has the edge on sharpness and focus although the zeiss is still a very good scope
And yes if some people could take a look through a euro optic maybe they would put an extra few cents away each week just to have one i know i would again
As you stated ( ask me how i know ) So how do you know mate ?

Cheers
Member-Deleted
 

Re: 25-06 twist rate

Post by Gwion » 07 Aug 2017, 11:52 am

Stop talking about that bloody Swaro; you're making me anxious and look for things i can sell... :lol: :thumbsup:
User avatar
Gwion
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3978
-

Re: 25-06 twist rate

Post by Member-Deleted » 07 Aug 2017, 12:43 pm

Come on mate chin up it's only a few cents extra per week and you've got one ( LOL)
G0 the''SWARO''
cheers
Member-Deleted
 

Re: 25-06 twist rate

Post by Gamerancher » 07 Aug 2017, 1:55 pm

How do I know? Many thousands of rounds at many critters from rabbits to scrub bulls and a bunch more at metallic silhouettes when I first got into it.
If you want to talk versatility, from "hot" 75gr H.P "varmint" loads @ 3600f/s that literally vaporized rabbits, 100gr spitzers @ 3300f/s that would stop anything with hair or fur to 120gr loads that never failed to knock down 500m silhouette rams. What's not to like about the 25 calibre. Mine was a custom built rifle on an L61R Sako action in .257 Roberts. 1 in 10" twist, 26" barrel if you were wondering. :thumbsup: :drinks:
User avatar
Gamerancher
Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major
 
Posts: 1596
New South Wales

Re: 25-06 twist rate

Post by Member-Deleted » 07 Aug 2017, 2:12 pm

Yeah gamerancher mine is factory sako A7 roughtech range 26'' barrel
You say you shoot 120gr how well do they shoot ?
Mine doesn't like over100gr to much
I mainly shoot wild dogs and scrubbers

Your rifle sounds impressive and i'm starting to like the 1/4 bore as well

Cheers
Member-Deleted
 

Re: 25-06 twist rate

Post by Gamerancher » 07 Aug 2017, 2:56 pm

Stupidly retired it and built a new silhouette rifle on the action. Didn't get away enough at the time and got bitten by silhouette bug.
The 120's shot well enough for the off-hand rams @ 500m, used to hit more of them than 200m chickens. :unknown:
I ran a bunch of 115gr Nosler partions through it on a pig hunt once. Nothing long range but the effect was pretty impressive. Hit one 70-80kg boar front on in the chest at about 20 yards, bullet went diagonally clear through him and took his off his back leg at the hock. Done an "autopsy" on him, man the damage inside was incredible, no wonder he went down instantly.
User avatar
Gamerancher
Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major
 
Posts: 1596
New South Wales

Re: 25-06 twist rate

Post by Member-Deleted » 07 Aug 2017, 5:39 pm

Not bad pig wouldn't have felt a thing
Actually i normally use 22-250 for wild dogs and 303 for scrubbers but after the weekend i may just swing to 0ne gun for all @25-06
22-250 is ideal for dogs but doesn't like wind way out its too much messing around trying to compensate in blustery conditions in hilly country the 25-06 is less affected
shooting at 400yrd with 15 knot cross wind needs bugger all compensation heaps less than the 22-250
So will have a good think on 25-06 as a one gun option
I would have liked to have shot 117gr but that isn't going to happen unless i rebarrel and that isn't going to happen anytime soon

Cheers
Member-Deleted
 


Back to top
 
Return to Calibres, cartridges and ballistics