30-06 variants

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Re: 30-06 variants

Post by straightshooter » 14 Dec 2017, 7:22 am

Every calibre / cartridge combination seems to have a bullet weight 'sweet spot'.
By that I mean, for hunting purposes, you seem to get an optimum combination of velocity, energy and flatness of trajectory compared to other weight projectiles.
For a 25/06 that appears to be with a 100 grain projectile.
These days I use Nosler partition projectiles as a happy balance between expansion and penetration.
I have tried Nosler 115 grainers and they don't seem to shoot any worse than the 100 grainers in my 10" twist so I would treat web based recommendations of twist vs. bullet weight with caution.
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Re: 30-06 variants

Post by Gamerancher » 14 Dec 2017, 8:31 am

I have gotten excellent results with the 115 gr partitions out of my Roberts. It also has a 10'' twist , 26" barrel. Knock down on pigs and goats was awesome.
Preferred load was 100gr sierra game kings for general walkabout shooting, good mild working load velocity around 3100f/s with a 3" high @ 100m zero they only drop 10" @ 400m. Makes for good open country shooting. The .25-06 can do a bit better than this by a couple of hundred f/s, albeit using more powder, but still makes for an even flatter shooting round.
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Re: 30-06 variants

Post by Member-Deleted » 14 Dec 2017, 8:41 am

What would the sweet spot weight projectile for 7mm rem mag would anybody have any knowledge of that
a little off subject but curious to know if there is one

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Re: 30-06 variants

Post by marksman » 14 Dec 2017, 9:37 am

grandadbushy wrote:TRUE, TRUE Marksman but if every gun had an areshole behind it we would only have more disagreement :thumbsup: :lol: :lol:
So might we leave it at caliber vs caliber and agree :allegedly: :thumbsup: :lol:
cheers


well that was worth the wait :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
especially given that I recon the 25-06 is a flatter long distance shooter than the 243 anyday :thumbsup:
if you make it fair using the same weight projectiles, say berger 115 grain hunting the 25-06 sails past the 243 as it hits the dirt even though the bc's are much better for the 243 :drinks: bc's 6mm .568 and 25 cal .483
the thing that the 25-06 doesn't have is heavier projies for bigger varmints, the only thing that lets it down :friends:
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Re: 30-06 variants

Post by marksman » 14 Dec 2017, 9:40 am

Gamerancher wrote:Like I said, thin skinned. :lol: I wish I could get the fish to bite as hard as you lot. :thumbsup:
Okay, .257 calibre actually has as wide of a range of hunting bullets from light weight 60 grainers you can get out at ridiculously flat shooting speeds around 3900 f/s for varmints through to 120 grainers that can still be gotten out at around 3000+ f/s. Try that with your .243. Do the down range trajectory and energy equations , the 1/4 bore kicks butt! :D :thumbsup: ( Especially in a Roberts ;) )


sometimes when the fish are biting you need to look around as you may be the bait :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :drinks:
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Re: 30-06 variants

Post by sungazer » 14 Dec 2017, 10:00 am

Dont think I could get a 115 to stabilize in the 243 its best load is probably the 90gr Berger Target/Varmint I also load both the Sierra 100gr Pro Hunter and Gameking both go well. I have some Hornady 105s which I am yet to try Hornady recommend a tighter twist than I have. I notice that this projectile seems to have stopped being manufactured.
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Re: 30-06 variants

Post by marksman » 14 Dec 2017, 10:29 am

if we were talking about calibers not cartridges my answer would have been different to above,
to be fair you would compare the 6mm-06 with the 25-06 with the same brand and weight projectiles in a barrel that can stabilise the projectile at the same speed
or 25-08 against the 243 with the same brand and weight projectiles at the same speed
that's when the bc's would kick in a bit but I don't think by much at all

IMHO the 6.5 cals all kill the 24 and 25 cals anyhoo :crazy: :drinks: :allegedly: :sarcasm:
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Re: 30-06 variants

Post by marksman » 14 Dec 2017, 10:47 am

sungazer wrote:Dont think I could get a 115 to stabilize in the 243 its best load is probably the 90gr Berger Target/Varmint I also load both the Sierra 100gr Pro Hunter and Gameking both go well. I have some Hornady 105s which I am yet to try Hornady recommend a tighter twist than I have. I notice that this projectile seems to have stopped being manufactured.


I use the 100gr sierra pro hunters for head shooting rabbits :allegedly:
and I shot a fallow that the farmers hay baler contractor mowed over when I went to look for it a few weeks ago
bloody mongrel :violin:
they work very well in my 6mm dasher 1 in 8 twist @ 3100fps for 32.5 gr's of powder
one hole at 200 and so far kill good, when I shoot the rabbits for practice there is a good blast hole in the ground behind it
I think you will find that shot placement is more important than projectile weight as long as you use good projectiles :thumbsup:
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Re: 30-06 variants

Post by wrenchman » 14 Dec 2017, 12:16 pm

i am a gun geeg i have wanted a 35 for years also i have read they are great bear guns and moose i have een looking for years for a rem 600 it would be a bone cruncher
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Re: 30-06 variants

Post by Member-Deleted » 14 Dec 2017, 12:17 pm

My choice 22-250, 25-06, 7mm
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Re: 30-06 variants

Post by marksman » 14 Dec 2017, 1:11 pm

wrenchman wrote:i am a gun geeg i have wanted a 35 for years also i have read they are great bear guns and moose i have een looking for years for a rem 600 it would be a bone cruncher


another good one would be the Elmer Keith's .333 OKH ;)
Image
I have personally held this rifle and just love it, it's hard to find well made rifle's like this
.333 OKH made from necking up a 30-06 to take 250 and 300 grain projies used for the .333 jefferys
Image
Image
from his African hunt using this rifle
and by the way, that rear scope mount does not touch the scope, it is there to protect it only

I have to many favourites to list including a lust for the 25-06 (ok I'm greedy) :lol: :lol:
but my 30-06 is what I carry mainly for hunting although I could carry others :drinks:
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Re: 30-06 variants

Post by sungazer » 14 Dec 2017, 4:38 pm

Money is the large limiting factor on me having a collection of any real size. then I am torn between beautiful classics with fine woodwork and finish coupled with hopefully an acceptable accuracy. Then I have a small side of me that like the military rifles and even going as far as today's taticool contraption as long as they are very practical and not just wank factor. I would like a couple of or at least one semi auto centrfire. Then the engineer side of me says just bugger it I can build a better shooting rifle than that (meaning any of the above) with custom parts and barrels. There are some awesome actions and barrels that people have specialized in.
I can see my self at one time having every calibre in 0.5mm increments and a few of the same for different purposes and perhaps in different twist rates.
There is so much overlap in a lot of the rifles that discussions about which one is better are not worth the argument. The interesting discussion is about the pros and cons of each one and be honest and accept you can be talking about rifles that may seem to be identical to you at first only to learn that one has a different barrel profile and that is enough to be a complete game changer.
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Re: 30-06 variants

Post by Gamerancher » 14 Dec 2017, 4:45 pm

Wrenchman, if you want a .35 based on the '06 case get the Ackley version instead of the Whelan. Better case capacity and more distinct shoulder than the Whelan.
Also, forget about the Rem, get one built on a commercial '98 Mauser action if you want a reliable hunting gun. :thumbsup:
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Re: 30-06 variants

Post by Gamerancher » 14 Dec 2017, 4:51 pm

Sungazer, it comes down to efficiency. If you can get one cartridge to duplicate the attributes of another using less powder, in a more compact action, or gives better case life due to the dynamics involved, etc, then that is my preferred option. You can always get some over-bore case to push a bullet faster but it follows a law of diminishing returns.
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Re: 30-06 variants

Post by Daddybang » 14 Dec 2017, 4:54 pm

marksman wrote:
wrenchman wrote:i am a gun geeg i have wanted a 35 for years also i have read they are great bear guns and moose i have een looking for years for a rem 600 it would be a bone cruncher


another good one would be the Elmer Keith's .333 OKH ;)
Image
I have personally held this rifle and just love it, it's hard to find well made rifle's like this
.333 OKH made from necking up a 30-06 to take 250 and 300 grain projies used for the .333 jefferys
Image
Image
from his African hunt using this rifle
and by the way, that rear scope mount does not touch the scope, it is there to protect it only

I have to many favourites to list including a lust for the 25-06 (ok I'm greedy) :lol: :lol:
but my 30-06 is what I carry mainly for hunting although I could carry others :drinks:


Is that a warthog in the last photo!!!?
I've always wanted to hunt warthog..it's about the only animal in Africa that I really want to hunt. Thats not to say I wouldn't hunt other critters but the warthog is top of the list for me !!! :D :drinks:
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Re: 30-06 variants

Post by marksman » 14 Dec 2017, 8:39 pm

Gamerancher wrote:Wrenchman, if you want a .35 based on the '06 case get the Ackley version instead of the Whelan. Better case capacity and more distinct shoulder than the Whelan.
Also, forget about the Rem, get one built on a commercial '98 Mauser action if you want a reliable hunting gun. :thumbsup:


now you are talking gamerancher :thumbsup: very good advice :drinks:
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Re: 30-06 variants

Post by marksman » 14 Dec 2017, 8:58 pm

yes that is an ugly warthog in the second animal photo daddybang, Elmer shot 30 head of game with this rifle including a leopard on this his first trip to Africa
the rifle is your typical blued fn action with a 26 inch round tapered barrel, the fiddle back is amazing
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Re: 30-06 variants

Post by wrenchman » 15 Dec 2017, 9:13 am

i would love to hold any of his guns i have read a few of his books i think hell i was there is his best
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Re: 30-06 variants

Post by wrenchman » 15 Dec 2017, 9:13 am

i would love to hold any of his guns i have read a few of his books i think hell i was there is his best
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Re: 30-06 variants

Post by BRNO_Bigot » 21 Dec 2017, 7:33 pm

marksman wrote:
Gamerancher wrote:I so desperately want to give my honest opinion on .243 vs .257 but .243 owners tend to be thin skinned and "blinkered" when it comes to any criticism of their cherished round so I had better not. :silent: ;)


go ahead, opinions are like arseholes everyone has one even me :allegedly: :sarcasm: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :drinks:



And just like arseholes, many don't smell great .... ;)



But if people are wanting to laud the 25-06, then they should look at the .270W. Anything the 25-06 can do, the 270 can probably do better.
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Re: 30-06 variants

Post by BRNO_Bigot » 21 Dec 2017, 7:55 pm

wrenchman wrote:i would love to hold any of his guns i have read a few of his books i think hell i was there is his best



Years ago, I was walking past a bookshop in Johannesburg that was closing down and I found a few copies of "Keith: An Autobiography" - I bought 2 for R1 each - at that time about $1.20.

Later my dad got "Hell, I was there" - same book.

I suspect, but I have no proof, that in later years (Guns & Ammo) he rambled into a tape recorder and some poor junior copy editor was responsible for turning it into golden prose, without losing the spirit (a losing proposition).

Boddington, many years later mentioned that when he was a junior at Petersen's that turning Elmer's contribution into something printable was a task given to recalcitrant juniors (ie a punishment),

Anyway - I am far off topic, I believe that the 30-06 variants I would like depend on what I want them to do.

>25-06 - goats, small deer, varmints
>270 - same, but bigger deer
>280 Rem - my perfect, all round cartridge
>30-06 - what can I say?
>338-06 - probably would replace 30-06 in my arsenal.
>35 Whelan - a big deer stomper - sambar slapping territory
>9.3x62 - Not a real descendant of the dirty-ought-six, but the case head is within 5 thou and the case length is just a bit shorter and it has taken every African game animal - not so much varmints, though
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Re: 30-06 variants

Post by slickncghia » 24 Dec 2017, 9:58 am

I own a 30-06 but since getting into reloading and becoming a ballistics nerd I would love to swap a 280AI tube on there.

280AI would be right up there for the best all round big deer species load out there especially for longer shots with reasonable recoil.

A 168 grain Accubond long range bullet with .652 BC at 2970 ft/sec = 2000ftlb at 475yards

80ft/sec short of a 7mm rem mag with 15-20% less powder and less recoil all from a non magnum action.

Another great option would be a fast twist 270 but bullet selection isnt great for >150s

That said the brand new 30 cal 168 grain ABLR might keep me satisfied with .598

Now to find a bloody deer
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Re: 30-06 variants

Post by marksman » 24 Dec 2017, 10:17 am

I went through a phase that I was going to rebarrel my favourite 30-06 into the 280AI and l have cases for it,
I just never burnt out the barrel and don't think I will unless I decide to trash it on paper, I do have a real fondness for the 30-06 though
the 280AI is a really sexy looking cartridge and it is a great 30-06 variant :thumbsup:

I have heard a few storeys about Elmer that are negative but I like the rifle, it is very skillfully constructed and it works :drinks:
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Re: 30-06 variants

Post by slickncghia » 24 Dec 2017, 10:27 am

Right there with you. My 06 has had less than 300 rounds through it and the barrel would cost more than the whole rifle did lol.

also most of the deer i have seen so far have been 20m away and when I'm still in the car so those 475 yard shots might not be super realistically for me at this stage.
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Re: 30-06 variants

Post by Oldbloke » 24 Dec 2017, 10:49 am

"also most of the deer i have seen so far have been 20m away and when I'm still in the car so those 475 yard shots might not be super realistically for me at this stage."

I assume your talking sambar. Shots up to 100yards are about 10x more common than long shots. But it changes a bit with ambush strategies. But I'm no expert.
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Re: 30-06 variants

Post by sungazer » 24 Dec 2017, 11:12 am

My next rifle will be the 7mm SAUM. It really seems to be the winning cartridge in a lot of disciplens http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/7mm/ or the new 6.5 PRC. Although I just invested in a cheap Howa 6.5 creedmoor. Already thinking of selling it to fund a new scope which probably would have been more logical to my needs but not given me more Fun sorry gun's
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Re: 30-06 variants

Post by straightshooter » 25 Dec 2017, 7:54 am

BRNO_Bigot wrote:But if people are wanting to laud the 25-06, then they should look at the .270W. Anything the 25-06 can do, the 270 can probably do better.


Not quite.
25-06 can "shoot a little bit flatter or further" whereas the 270 can deal with a little bit bigger game.
But for either it has to be in the right circumstances.
Otherwise there is not enough difference that being the owner of one I would be dreaming of replacing it with the other.
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Re: 30-06 variants

Post by Oldbloke » 25 Dec 2017, 8:53 am

It's just about hedging your bets and compromise. You take out what you hope is the best option.
Your sneaking around looking for a fox with a 223 and a huge pig presents a shot, do you take it?
Or carrying a 3006 loaded with 220gr interlock looking for sambar, a dog shows up, you know it will pencil through. Do you take the shot?.

That's why 308, 270. 3006, 7*57, 7-08 are all popular. They are a good compromise, and will do the job well in most situations.
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Re: 30-06 variants

Post by wrenchman » 26 Dec 2017, 3:24 am

the 25-06 is real popular with mountain goat hunters and sheep hunters here in the states my knees are bad so i will never know if it is true
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