.22Hornet or .22LR & .223Rem

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.22Hornet or .22LR & .223Rem

Post by JimTom » 20 Dec 2017, 9:05 am

G’day All
I am currently rebuilding my rifle collection after disposing of some of my older rifles.
I am after a .22cal for small game out to 150M. Would you go for a .22LR and a .223Rem or do you think a .22Hornet would cover it.
In the perfect world I’d buy one of each bit of course cost is a factor.
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Re: .22Hornet or .22LR & .223Rem

Post by Cooper » 20 Dec 2017, 12:36 pm

.223. Over kill for close rabbits. But so many more ammo choice compared to 22 hornet. And much better performance. Really I reckon everybody needs a 22lr as well. But if you can only have one. I'd go .223
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Re: .22Hornet or .22LR & .223Rem

Post by Oldbloke » 20 Dec 2017, 12:41 pm

Cooper wrote:.223. Over kill for close rabbits. But so many more ammo choice compared to 22 hornet. And much better performance. Really I reckon everybody needs a 22lr as well. But if you can only have one. I'd go .223


Definitely agree, also consider 222, but it's almost the same as 223.
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Re: .22Hornet or .22LR & .223Rem

Post by JimTom » 20 Dec 2017, 12:51 pm

Thanks for the reply. Much appreciated. I agree and think the .223 is the better choice.
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Re: .22Hornet or .22LR & .223Rem

Post by bladeracer » 20 Dec 2017, 12:56 pm

Scooter wrote:G’day All
I am currently rebuilding my rifle collection after disposing of some of my older rifles.
I am after a .22cal for small game out to 150M. Would you go for a .22LR and a .223Rem or do you think a .22Hornet would cover it.
In the perfect world I’d buy one of each bit of course cost is a factor.


I would go for the .223 and load it back to .22LR and .22 Hornet. If you want to do heaps of plinking as well then you'll need a .22LR anyway. You can cast .225" lead bullets and shoot .223 at 1100fps almost as cheap as .22LR, but it's still fun just emptying box after box of .22's down range.

My .204 load of 32gn ZMax at 2400fps is perfect for close range small game, and cheap enough. It's sort of halfway between the .22WMR and the Hornet. You can shoot these loads all day without getting the barrel warm.

I'm making test loads in .223 today with the 35gn NTX, 55gn RooMax, 80gn ELDM and a 52gn open-tip bullet swaged from .22LR brass by a guy in Tasmania. I'm hoping these swaged bullets will make good cheap low-velocity loads.
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Re: .22Hornet or .22LR & .223Rem

Post by JimTom » 20 Dec 2017, 1:04 pm

Thanks for your reply mate, yes the .223 is far more versatile and can shoot a greater variation of projectiles, so I think Ive made up my mind. Off to the shop to order one. Have been looking at either the Lithgow or Tikka. I have already read the forum on this site comparing the two. Tough choice I think.
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Re: .22Hornet or .22LR & .223Rem

Post by marksman » 20 Dec 2017, 1:24 pm

tikka is the ducks nut's for a 223 shooter :drinks:
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Re: .22Hornet or .22LR & .223Rem

Post by JimTom » 20 Dec 2017, 1:36 pm

marksman wrote:tikka is the ducks nut's for a 223 shooter :drinks:



Yes I really like the Tikka, however the lure of having a rifle that is Aussie made, and performs equally as well, is quite tempting. Still, I am still thinking about it.
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Re: .22Hornet or .22LR & .223Rem

Post by Stix » 20 Dec 2017, 3:56 pm

Hi Scooter,
personally i think all three are the go...eventually....

Im a believer that every man needs a .22lr--even before he gets a dog & a car...!!--Honestly if i leave the city to go out bush & dont have at least me 22 with me i feel naked.

That said, bladeracer's advice is the go...do the .223 first & go the trailboss route for bulk shooting, then get the .22lr, ... ...then... ... ...well then you're in trouble man...!!!
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Re: .22Hornet or .22LR & .223Rem

Post by JimTom » 20 Dec 2017, 8:32 pm

Thanks Stix

Yes I will end up with a .22LR in due course too mate. I think you are 100% correct.
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Re: .22Hornet or .22LR & .223Rem

Post by JimTom » 20 Dec 2017, 8:34 pm

I have had a look at the Howa, and the Weatherby Vanguard Mk2. Both looked good. Think the Tikka or Lithgow are mildly superior. Seem to be spoiled for choice.
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Re: .22Hornet or .22LR & .223Rem

Post by bigrich » 20 Dec 2017, 8:57 pm

got a mate with a cz 527 in 22 hornet that is awsome accurate out to around 170 with hornady factory ammo.
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Re: .22Hornet or .22LR & .223Rem

Post by JimTom » 20 Dec 2017, 9:49 pm

Yep I have had the opportunity to shoot a few groups with the cz527 in .22Hornet. I couldn’t agree more, impressive to shoot.
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Re: .22Hornet or .22LR & .223Rem

Post by Apollo » 20 Dec 2017, 10:20 pm

Scooter wrote:Yep I have had the opportunity to shoot a few groups with the cz527 in .22Hornet. I couldn’t agree more, impressive to shoot.


With a lot of fiddling, which is fun, and custom loads it is pretty easy to get a 22 Hornet (CZ 527) to shoot sub 0.5 moa groups at 100m but go further and you can suffer. The trick is the correct bullet weight (like 30gr), the correct Powder and Primer then crimp the bullet to improve pressure.

22 Hornet is a great calibre and very impressive out around 150 Metres. Go further then go to the likes of a .223R or something custom like a .22BR or .204 Ruger.

Got them all.. pick one based on what the day looks like and have great accurate fun.
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Re: .22Hornet or .22LR & .223Rem

Post by GLS_1956 » 21 Dec 2017, 1:25 am

I"m glad you've made you choice, but I'm still putting in my two cents worth. :-)) I have guns chambered in all three calibers, well 5.56 instead of .223 but still. 22LR are almost obligitory or d*mn well should be, believe me if you don't jave one now when you get one you'll wonder how you got along with out it.

I got my first 22Hornet nearly 40 years ago with the idea of turkey hunting and going after varmints which the llargest I was going to go after would be coyotes, which run in the 20 to 30 pound range, and figured that my range would be no more than 150 yards. Never go to take a turkey or hunt crows with it, but what it does to crows is give you a cloud of feathers at 50 yards, give or take.

The 223 is good for coyotes out to 300ish yards, I've not gotten them at that range but they were closer for me. So depending on the shooter's and the gun's ability it should work well at that distance.

I''ve also got a 22-250 and a 220 Swift. The 220 Swift has never made it out in the field, but what a 22-250 did to turtles in my grandfather's farm ponds was quite impressive.
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Re: .22Hornet or .22LR & .223Rem

Post by bigrich » 21 Dec 2017, 7:31 am

one caliber for consideration is 22 mag. i have a weihrauch HW60J that has just passed the 250 round mark and is settling down to shoot 1" at 100 with winchester 45 gr copper coat power points. it likes a clean barrel but, groups open up after 30 rounds. a good anzchutz or a cz heavy barrel might be a good thing as well. 22mag is a bit cheaper to shoot factory than hornet.and 22mag and 17 hmr are only cat A. horses for coarses .......
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Re: .22Hornet or .22LR & .223Rem

Post by JimTom » 21 Dec 2017, 3:58 pm

Funnily enough mate I did actually look at getting a .22WMR along the way. I previously had a .22LR and as people have said you wonder how you do without one. I will definitely get a .22, and in time once the bank balance builds back up I may even treat myself to a Hornet in addition to the .223. Can’t have to many rifles after all.
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Re: .22Hornet or .22LR & .223Rem

Post by bladeracer » 21 Dec 2017, 4:06 pm

I had a .22WMR but I also had the .222Rem so the WMR rarely got used.
I loaded the .222 down to the performance levels of the Hornet, WMR, .22LR and very subsonic loads for less money and better accuracy than the WMR gave me, plus the ability to shoot heavier bullets at equivalent velocities.
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Re: .22Hornet or .22LR & .223Rem

Post by RoginaJack » 21 Dec 2017, 4:32 pm

My 2cents worth, I think 150yds is stretching it for a 22lr in the field. The 22 Hornet ammo, unless your reloading is dearer than 223 and not as readily available plus a greater choice of projectile weights and design, so go the 223 and in a Tikka and for the closer shots, just don't stalk so close.
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Re: .22Hornet or .22LR & .223Rem

Post by bigrich » 21 Dec 2017, 6:07 pm

loading down is something i hadn't considered when buying my rifles. you fellas have given me something to think about. i have read ( think it was terminal ballistics site ) that 22-250 is extremely flexiable for down loading while still maintaining good consistant accuraccy. any opinions or experience with this fellas ? does twist rate have any effect ?
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Re: .22Hornet or .22LR & .223Rem

Post by Oldbloke » 21 Dec 2017, 6:12 pm

Yeah, I have worked up a load for my 223 mmmmm, about 2000fps I think. You can do it with any rifle. Just got to do some homework.
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Re: .22Hornet or .22LR & .223Rem

Post by bigrich » 21 Dec 2017, 6:36 pm

2000 fps OB ? that's 22 mag teritory. hmmmmm. think i need to look harder at this reloading caper. dunno if i should but. might make some of my rifles redundant. so you just do soft loads of established data and do a bit of range time with a chrono ?
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Re: .22Hornet or .22LR & .223Rem

Post by bladeracer » 21 Dec 2017, 6:54 pm

bigrich wrote:loading down is something i hadn't considered when buying my rifles. you fellas have given me something to think about. i have read ( think it was terminal ballistics site ) that 22-250 is extremely flexable for down loading while still maintaining good consistent accuracy. any opinions or experience with this fellas ? does twist rate have any effect ?


I make reduced loads in every caliber I shoot just to expand the versatility, reduce the cost and reduce the wear on the firearm.
Can't comment on the .22-250 as I've never owned one but I'd be surprised if there's any difficulty with doing so.
Trailboss is your friend when it comes to reduced loads.

My brother's favorite .243 load is the 58gn VMax on 12gn of Trailboss at 2020fps - just like a .22WMR with a 50%-heavier bullet. We can shoot them all day without the barrel even getting warm.
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Re: .22Hornet or .22LR & .223Rem

Post by bladeracer » 21 Dec 2017, 7:06 pm

bigrich wrote:2000 fps OB ? that's 22 mag teritory. hmmmmm. think i need to look harder at this reloading caper. dunno if i should but. might make some of my rifles redundant. so you just do soft loads of established data and do a bit of range time with a chrono ?


I've rarely found any data for reduced loads in most calibers.
ADI suggest with Trailboss to fill the case to the base of the seated bullet, then start at 70% of that.
I pretty much just fill a case to around about the base of the bullet, test shoot it to measure velocity and accuracy and then work up and down to get what I want. My TB loads are anywhere from 50% to 100% of actual case capacity and I've been right down to 3.7gn in the .243 with the 58gn VMax making about 300fps. But two of those stopped in the muzzle, so I would consider 4gn to be about the minimum load with the 58gn in .243. Any useful load though will need to be at least around 6-7gn with the lighter bullets - 7gn pushes the 58gn at about 1350fps. In the 6.5x55mm 8gn of TB pushes the 95gn VMax just below supersonic (no crack) and gives me 1Moa to 100m.
Keep in mind for hunting that bullets require a minimum terminal velocity at which they start to expand, below that velocity they're just FMJ's.
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Re: .22Hornet or .22LR & .223Rem

Post by Oldbloke » 21 Dec 2017, 7:18 pm

Just checked the load is 7.6gr As 50N. 55gr Hornady so for about 2200fps.
As50N is a rough equivient to green dot. So you can use that data. Just need to be cautious, as it's not exact.

I use the same powder for cast bullets in my 3006 .

It can make a rifle very versatile.

Trail boss is very popular.
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Re: .22Hornet or .22LR & .223Rem

Post by sungazer » 21 Dec 2017, 7:47 pm

Bladeracer how did you get the bullet out of the barrel? Was it very hard? Lucky you looked and didn't put another one down the tube as well that could have been a real mess.
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Re: .22Hornet or .22LR & .223Rem

Post by bladeracer » 21 Dec 2017, 8:20 pm

sungazer wrote:Bladeracer how did you get the bullet out of the barrel? Was it very hard? Lucky you looked and didn't put another one down the tube as well that could have been a real mess.


The first one I thought I'd fired a primer only and forgotten the charge so I pulled a bullet from the next round and fired it out with that charged case. After a few more my final test round stopped at the muzzle so I walked back to my office with it in place.

Just pushed it out with a cleaning rod. The only effort in pushing a jacketed bullet through a bore is engraving the rifling, once it's engraved it doesn't take much effort to push it through.

These were 300fps loads so I doubt there would've been a mess. The bullet was right at the muzzle, as in you could touch the tip of it. I would expect a second round probably would've just popped it out before itself stopping in the bore. Worst case it might've bulged the barrel a little but I doubt it.

I forgot to add, I found a bullet lying on the ground a few feet before my bullet stop, unmarked other than the rifling. I reckon that was the bullet I fired out of the muzzle and it barely traveled 50m.
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Re: .22Hornet or .22LR & .223Rem

Post by bigrich » 21 Dec 2017, 8:37 pm

real eye opening info guys. i got a mate who rags on me cause he doesn't like high velocity stuff. this really changes how i'm looking at my 22-250. i could download to 222/223 velocities and still have the ability to load right up if need be. if i lower velocity on my 22-250 it sort of makes sense to go with a 1-12 twist barrel to shoot heavier projs in the 60 grain range as well doesn't it ? the rifle does need rebarreling. not really intending to shoot lighter than 55 gr slugs
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Re: .22Hornet or .22LR & .223Rem

Post by Stix » 21 Dec 2017, 8:50 pm

Ive never tried, & dont have any immediate plans to load down any of my 22-250's bigrich....
Ive dabbled with the 7-08 & 204, but think ill leave the 250 as it was so designed...velocity...
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Re: .22Hornet or .22LR & .223Rem

Post by Oldbloke » 21 Dec 2017, 9:00 pm

This subject often comes up so I will just post this from the adi loading manual.

reduced loads .jpg
reduced loads .jpg (39.15 KiB) Viewed 8086 times
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