8mm Lebel (8×50mmR Lebel)

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8mm Lebel (8×50mmR Lebel)

Post by Pilch » 14 Feb 2018, 2:11 pm

A snippet of history here:

The 8mm Lebel rifle cartridge was the first smokeless powder cartridge to be made and adopted by any country. It was introduced by France in 1886. Formed by necking down the 11mm Gras black powder cartridge, the smokeless 8 mm Lebel cartridge started a revolution in military rifle ammunition. Standard 8mm Lebel military ammunition was also the first rifle ammunition to feature a spitzer boat tail bullet (Balle D), which was adopted in 1898.


8mm-lebel.jpg
8mm-lebel.jpg (57.3 KiB) Viewed 3132 times


I thought the case was a bit interesting with that bell shape. I wonder how it goes burning powder, but be a hell of a pressure spike as it concentrates under the shoulder there.

Just thought it was interesting :)
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Re: 8mm Lebel (8×50mmR Lebel)

Post by No1Mk3 » 14 Feb 2018, 5:30 pm

G'day Pilch, it is more than interesting, it is FUN! A very capable cartridge, but it's physical dimensions became obsolete for modern warfare quite quickly and if you locate a picture of a Chauchat machine gun you will see why! The case has an annular ring on the base, it's purpose was to accept the point of the spitzer bullet as this round was originally used in a tube magazine rifle, the 1886 Lebel, then later in the vertical magazine Berthier, with Mannlicher style clips. If you want more fun, watch a mate shoot 500m comps with it in a 1907/15 Berthier rifle, and BEAT the Mauser fanboys with their K98k's and Swedish M96's, a laugh (with garlic) a minute, Cheers.

PS: It's my wifes favourite in a carbine 1892 Berthier 3 shot.
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Re: 8mm Lebel (8×50mmR Lebel)

Post by sungazer » 14 Feb 2018, 7:59 pm

Ok I googled the Chauchat and it seems like it was well ahead of its time with some of the design features "The Chauchat combined a pistol grip, an in-line stock, a detachable magazine, and a selective fire capability in a compact package of manageable weight (20 pounds) for a single soldier. Furthermore, it could be routinely fired from the hip and while walking (marching fire)." from Wiki but was poorly built due to cost savings due to the war and the American adaption in 30 06 was a failure. A very interesting read No!MK3 you know your history of weapons. But I dont see the point you are making about the cartridge. It actually looks like it would be an efficient cartridge with the tapered sides As Pauline would say "please explain"
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Re: 8mm Lebel (8×50mmR Lebel)

Post by No1Mk3 » 15 Feb 2018, 6:07 am

G'day sungazer,
The tapered design of the cartridge caused the magazine to resemble a banana, and even in the enclosed model, which was less affected by dirt than the open seam mag, it led to unreliable operation. Clearing stoppages became a "national pastime" for soldiers, and their skill is a testament to the gun serving through the war. When the Belgians adopted it in 7.65 Mauser it proved a great LMG and served with them up to WW2. When the Lebel was used in the M1914 Hotchkiss MG, with it's straight feeder clips, it proved a very effective cartridge, as it did in the rifles it was used in. The fact is in modern arms, fairly straight sided cartridges are more efficient than the older black powder based designs, so France moved to the 7.5x58 in 1924, then modified it to the 7.5x54 in 1929. I would add that in the M1917 and M1918 semi auto rifles, using the 3 and 5 round clips, the cartridge worked very well, but an experimental 10 round clip wouldn't feed after the first few shots. Cheers.
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Re: 8mm Lebel (8×50mmR Lebel)

Post by Xerox » 15 Feb 2018, 1:07 pm

No1Mk3 wrote:then later in the vertical magazine Berthier, with Mannlicher style clips


I can see why they had trouble stacking it in a vertical mag. The mag would have to be shaped like a slice of pie almost to stop them rattling everywhere.
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