Gunsmith Victoria

[madang55]

Sorry to bring it up again, but...it is 2019 and the last posts were a while ago....Gunsmiths....Victoria
Who to take a Martini Cadet in 218 Bee to? I need to determine whether or not to have suspect chamber re-done, or complete re chamber to another caliber, probably 22Hornet. New acquisition shows fired cases to have head expansion, but more so on one side.....and when I full length re-size, changes shoulder shape and angle significantly to closer to what the book drawings show.. The re sized cases are definitely longer, as they are slightly harder, but not out of the question harder, to close the action on, meaning the newly formed shoulder is probably making contact with the chamber throat. The un-sized cases no problem.

[No1_49er]

Have you tried neck-sizing only, rather than full length? I'd guess that you only have this one rifle in 218Bee, so not much chance of mixing cases up and using in the wrong rifle.
22Hornet is much smaller diameter, so re-chambering not really feasible. Re-cutting a 218Bee chamber would still require setting the barrel back in the action and re-cutting for extractor, indexing sights etc.
If it were me, I'd stick with neck-sizing only. Unless you've got a pile of $$, or you can do your own 'smithing.

[marksman]

New acquisition shows fired cases to have head expansion, but more so on one side

this is because the chamber is sloppy, a bit oversized so when the case is loaded it lays on the bottom of the chamber and when fired blows out more where there is room, the fix is a rechamber with a tighter fit reamer, I have heard of people getting around this by using thin tape at the case head so the case head expands equally when fired so it forms to the chamber, after only neck sizing to keep the body shape, the fix is a theory I cant say is true or not

when I full length re-size, changes shoulder shape and angle significantly to closer to what the book drawings show.. The re sized cases are definitely longer, as they are slightly harder, but not out of the question harder, to close the action on, meaning the newly formed shoulder is probably making contact with the chamber throat.

I suspect you are trying to take out the lop sided bulge in the case head when fls'ing but if you back the die out a bit the case will fit easier because you will not be crushing the shoulder down that is bulging the shoulder slightly making the case harder to chamber

as No1_49er suggested neck sizing would probably be the go

[madang55]

All good info, thanks guys. I believe yr correct about the neck sizing. BTW, the case on the left is the FL, on the right is unsized. I found a martini guru local who is going to run a finishing reamer thru and see if that does anything. Cheers

[madang55]

Neck sized a few and strange thing is that they were just as "sticky". So...going to wait a couple of weeks when this new best friend of mine takes a finishing reamer to the chamber to ensure that all is well in that regard. Put a few factory rounds through and look at the result. If things are still poopy I will get it re-chambered to a hornet, or something else in .224 or 300BLK or see what's developing with the 350 Legend.

[SCJ429]

How will you rechamber it in 300 blackout or 350 legend?

[No1_49er]

I think you'd be well advised to get yourself a reference book that gives dimensions of cartridges. "The Handloaders Manual of Cartridge Conversions" is one such.
If you had such a work, you would find that re-chambering to 22Hornet would be practically impossible, without a lot of work, because the 218B chamber is much larger diameter than 22H

Remove barrel.
Cut sufficient length to remove old chamber.
Re-cut barrel tenon thread.
Fit up to action and determine extractor location - dependent on sight indexing. No open sights - not so much of a problem.
Remove barrel and mill for extractor.
Cut chamber and headspace check.
Hand over a stack of $$$ to your 'smith.
Have you asked any 'smith how much he is going to charge you, and what the wait time might be?
Good luck.

[madang55]

Sorry, bad choice of words. Re-barrel to 300. 350, probably not, case too long. 300 he has already done for another guy, and a pretty good job as well. Put it this way, I ain't gonna throw money away. Preferably can make the 218 work. If not, the possibilities are vast and this gentleman does nice work.

[Varmtr]

Madang by the picture you are showing your chamber looks like 218 Bee improved with a 30 degree shoulder angle. As the case on the right looks like it has no body taper or very minimal and 30 degree shoulder angle.
Get a vernier and cross measure a fired case to a standard case and then compare the fired case to. 218 Bee improved dimensions.
IF it is a improved chamber the standard case when intially fired formed it will shorten very slightly.

[Oldbloke]

Madang by the picture you are showing your chamber looks like 218 Bee improved with a 30 degree shoulder angle. As the case on the right looks like it has no body taper or very minimal and 30 degree shoulder angle.
Get a vernier and cross measure a fired case to a standard case and then compare the fired case to. 218 Bee improved dimensions.
IF it is a improved chamber the standard case when intially fired formed it will shorten very slightly.

I reckon your onto something there. I was puzzled that the cases looked quite different.

[duncan61]

keep the bee.cool little .224

[madang55]

Guys, I didn't even know there was an "Improved" version. This may be the case. The rifle did apparently start life as a benchrest. So...maybe the builder thought it was the best way to go. Problem is that it doesn't cure the definite case expansion on one side of the case. It's just me myself and I and we can't live with that. We will see what happens when the guru puts a dreamer in. If it fixes the problem, happy days. If not, I have lots of options

[madang55]

Ok....showed the photo to a guy in a shop, (whom I trust) and the immediate answer was....IMPROVED shoulder. Just neck size and yr good to go....Ok, go home, set up and neck size about 100. Thinks to myself...try these in the chamber, Yay!!!!......noooooo, still hard to chamber. Has to be a result of the expansion of the body. Stuff it. When I FL size I usually wind the die down to the shell holder then back off a turn. So, this time I wind all the way down and leave it there. Resize a case, and, it drops neatly into the chamber and the breech block glides closed. SOD IT!!! Because I've been playing so much with these cases and I'm not sure how many firings they've had, I think, in for a penny...Got the hot torch out, made myself a handle and set about annealing all the cases before I ran them thru the FL again. Now all I have to do is get to the range on Friday and see what really happens. If it turns out that the chamber is really that sloppy, I don't think I'll risk it any further. (read throw more money at it) Sooner or later I'm going to get a proper stuck case, or a case separate, and that's just plain frustrating. I'm going to re-barrel to 17 Hornet

[madang55]

OK, the story so far....
Chamber not so much sloppy, (probably is) but a little spy camera shows the chamber to be rough as guts. Not very well looked after. IS IT SAFE to give it a polish and what with? I have set myself up with a drill attached to a piece of brass cleaning rod with a jag attached which will grab anything from Steel Wool, to cloth. I have 0000 StWool, I also have some of the white Auto polishing pads (finest non scratchy stuff I can cut to size). I also have Brasso. I have spoken to Mr Simplex who will make me a set of dies for the improved neck after I send him some fire formed brass. BUT, I would like to clean up the chamber first. Is it worth it? Am I throwing money away? I think yes and no. Its a grand little round, and a joy to shoot now I have the trigger down to about 2lb. I put a much better scope on it, and I reckon will do beautifully as a light varminter.