.222 Magnum build

[marksman]

my suggestion would be to polish the throat area with a tight patch and autosol
check the crown, check the bedding, no oil under the action ect...
l agree it is a good idea to pull apart your rifle and put it back together carefully cleaning as you go

if it shot well once it should again, what has changed

[Am88]

my suggestion would be to polish the throat area with a tight patch and autosol
check the crown, check the bedding, no oil under the action ect...
l agree it is a good idea to pull apart your rifle and put it back together carefully cleaning as you go

if it shot well once it should again, what has changed

havent polished with autosol, all of Allan's barrels are hand lapped. Have stripped, cleaned and reassembled. The reason I started playing around, was when I first shot the rifle, I loaded the vmax's to the Hornady Manuals length, however when I took a fired case, bent the neck and found COL it was shorter then the Hornady manual, so I got a bit paranoid as in the past, when my brother had a caliper operator error, he loaded bullets too long, results were 3 stuck bullets, and 3 ejected cases flinging powder around in my ute, at night, with head lights lol. So I backed off the length.

This is why I found Erik Cortina's video about finding JAM not the lands so interesting, I found Jam using his method with a sized case and found I am good for length.

[Am88]

And jam measurements compared to find COL by bending the neck, 55gr sierra's came out 35 thou longer, 55 v maxes came out 20 though longer. Funnily enough, the COL to the tip of the vmax I originally loaded. Was jam minus 20 thousandths.

[bigrich]

what you need AM88 is a handy hornady designed/made tool for finding the correct COL . i have one and it is invaluable . the threaded, modified cases for odd calibers can be a wait, but my local gun shop , brown's plains firearms (free plug ) , ordered me in a case for my 358 winchester from the USA . check it out, they are not overly expensive either

[Am88]

I have always thought about them bigrich, but never found the need for one, I don't have target rifles they are all for hunting bar this .222M. So length to me has always been kept on the conservative side anyway. So I have now given the rifle another wipe through with hoppe's, loaded some tests at the original load being 23gr of 8208, and the length which gave me 20 though jump to Jam not to the 'Lands'. we shall see.

[bigrich]

I have always thought about them bigrich, but never found the need for one, I don't have target rifles they are all for hunting bar this .222M. So length to me has always been kept on the conservative side anyway. So I have now given the rifle another wipe through with hoppe's, loaded some tests at the original load being 23gr of 8208, and the length which gave me 20 though jump to Jam not to the 'Lands'. we shall see.

i'm not a "jam to the lands" type loader either . i've backed off COL in my 6.5x55 win 70 in the interest of reliable feeding over bughole accuracy in what essentially is a deer/pig rifle . however, knowing what limits in COL you can use can be helpful . i've found most of my rifles get good accuracy around the 30 thou mark and start most new loads/projectile combo's around this limit .the hornady tool is very useful for load setup

my 222 when it had a new barrel could shoot amazing one hole groups , all with a refurbished/bedded factory stock and a heavy sporter barrel and a tweaked standard trigger . which makes for a great humane culling/varmit rifle .

have i mentioned on this forum i'm partial to winchester 70's .......

[deanp100]

I had a look through the thread quickly and couldn’t see it, but have you ever tried a different scope. I have a sako hb 222 that is doing basically what your gun is doing. It always shot well, but not brilliantly and it should have . I tried a huge variety of loads and it was always ok. Different points of impact for different loads . An inch left here , an inch low there and never terrible. It had a beautiful 6-18 redfield that had been serviced on it so I never suspected the scope. I had been to the range many times trying everything and one trip the poi had jumped 6 inches. I swapped scopes to a 4-12 that I knew was good and it instantly became a half inch gun. The scope wasnt broken, just tired and springs had a bit of play, just enough to think it was something else.

[Am88]

I have mate actually yes, the meopta 3.5-10x44 I had on it I just removed, I have now fitted a fixed 7x50 Meopta I just scored, old steel tubed model, Solid old scope, set on this one now. POI never changed, just grew bigger.

[bigrich]

i have a story for you AM88 , i had one of my win70's rebarreled in 243, it's original caliber . i used new brass and got good accuracy . reloading the once fired brass, i neck sized and the groups opened up like what you described . i put some of this down to barrel heat for want of a better explanation

i got the sh!ts with it and rebarreled it again to 358 win for a project . and it shot great groups until i neck sized my once fired brass and found it wouldn't chamber a lot of the brass. i checked everything , and then another forum member , stoney , being a enfeild nut said it sounded like a out of sqaure receiver, a problem he'd come across in old milsurps (haven't come across that in old mauser 96 and 98's but..... )

so i marked a case with a marking pen and sure enough that was the issue . the receiver was not sqaure, after it had been rebarreled TWICE ,by a reputable smith

the issue wasn't apparent when it was 243 on account of the long shoulder and small-for-case neck bending to suit the chamber . which did horrible things for accuracy and gave me a dislike for 243's . the 358 with it's very minimal shoulder, less iclined to conform to the out of sqaure chamber ,made this problem more obvious

so try this with a fired case. as you open the bolt slowly, mark the case with a marker as a reference point, then turn it 180 degrees and see if it will rechamber and close the bolt with minimal resistance . that may reveal if you have any issues .

as another poster said, maybe your scopes just gone "off"

i hope this may help your situation , as i was dumbfounded how my accurate rifle lost it's accuracy and would consistantly only shoot around 2" at 100 after it was shooting 1/2" with the new unfired brass previously

good luck, cheers

[Am88]

Hey Bigrich, Im still working through my first 100 brass, so haven't even sized any yet. Same brass that it shot at the start. It's defffinataly frustrating, but hopefully now I may have some luck knowing how far I can get the bullet out.

[bigrich]

Hey Bigrich, Im still working through my first 100 brass, so haven't even sized any yet. Same brass that it shot at the start. It's defffinataly frustrating, but hopefully now I may have some luck knowing how far I can get the bullet out.

ahh, okay . that rules out what i was refering to

i have noticed in some of my rifles the load formulas change as the barrel wears in . after 100 rounds through some of my rifles their powder preference can change too . my 358 went from 2206h to ar2208 with the same projectile for awesome accuracy. your 222mag may not settle down in it's load preference until you've put more rounds through it maybe

if this reloading capper was easy it wouldn't be any fun !

[marksman]

l'm waiting with bated breath to see how this turns out for you Am88

its interesting to hear you still haven't put through 100 yet and IMO you need to shoot the barrel a bit more to see it settle down before worrying too much
there would have been a burr from chambering that is probably not there now or burnt down and has changed the OAL reading
what does the bore feel like when you push a patch down, is it a smooth push all the way, does it go smooth then grab ect...
pretty sure you and BR had your barrels changed at the same place, do they air gauge the barrel after lapping to check the uniformity of the bore

[Am88]

Not sure on Thier full process marksman, all I know is I had a win!

So I went back to basics, loaded 10 rounds total, 5x 55gr vmax, 23gr 8208 and 20 though shorter then jam measurement. Another 5 as above but with the Sierra's.

Before each 5, hoppes no 9 patch and wipe out. Bore is very smooth marksman BUT when I found jam I noticed the grooves seem to have a very abrupt start to them as seen on the bullets with 6 sharp little notches.

Vmax shot a 1" group, first shot with clean barrel was high as expected. Next four shot into a 1/2" group.

The Sierra's shot a 3/4" group, first shot clean shot high again, next four shots went into a 7mm hole.

So I feel much better

[bigrich]

Not sure on Thier full process marksman, all I know is I had a win!

So I went back to basics, loaded 10 rounds total, 5x 55gr vmax, 23gr 8208 and 20 though shorter then jam measurement. Another 5 as above but with the Sierra's.

Before each 5, hoppes no 9 patch and wipe out. Bore is very smooth marksman BUT when I found jam I noticed the grooves seem to have a very abrupt start to them as seen on the bullets with 6 sharp little notches.

Vmax shot a 1" group, first shot with clean barrel was high as expected. Next four shot into a 1/2" group.

The Sierra's shot a 3/4" group, first shot clean shot high again, next four shots went into a 7mm hole.

So I feel much better

congradulations mate great to hear ya sorted it and it's shooting like a champ i think your barrel might need to run in a little more running in

i don't think swan barrels are air gauged MM

[Am88]

I'm thinking that as well bigrich, going to break open my second box of brass and load a mob up and shoot the thing.

Just looked back through my loading notes and seen I had tried the same load of 23gr with the Sierra's, but 25 though shorter it was one of the better groups I had at 1 1/8" while I was having issues.

[marksman]

the abrupt start of the grooves is the lead angle that is important to the start of the bullet making its way down the bore
my projectiles dont jam or get stuck because l have my reamers made with a lead angle that compliments the bullet l am going to use so there is no abrupt start,
better chance to start straight better chance to shoot straight although some say its like wearing the lands down at that point, l suppose it is
you could liken this to a car having to jump over a curb before it gets started and is something to consider when having a new chamber cut

l'm glad your happy with how the rifle is going and there is no guarantee that even an air gauged barrel will shoot better,
but honestly l haven't seen one yet that wont, 1/2" moa is the max average l would hope for but usually nearly always get way less, at least 1/4 moa max
when having a rifle rebarreled it is essential that the receiver face is squared to the bore, the threads chased with the lugs lapped, bolt face squared, then make the barrel to suit and fit. everything squared to the bore or you are really pissing into the wind and tossing a coin, but who knows you may get lucky
air gauging is how some barrel makers check for uniformity of the bore and is how they are graded, its the difference between knowing you have a really good barrel

as l said earlier l would be advising to shoot the rifle for a while, maybe 200 rounds then seriously look at tuning your loads,
l'm sure you will have a real winner

[deanp100]

So after all that was the difference was bullet seating length ?

[Am88]

It appears so yes. unsure if it has something to do with the short throat in it. I really do not know

[deanp100]

I should probably pay more attention to it. I seat bullets purely for visual effect.

[Am88]

I can't say I have ever had the issue

[Am88]

Shoots pretty flat, each square is an inch, 3 shots at 100m 1 of which was a clean patched barrel, top 2 are in the same hole, then 3 shots at 200m. Not making excuses but I only have a fixed 7 power on this and had the morning sun shining at me was actually pretty hard to see that thing at 200 not gunna liethe crosshair filled the lines up a little too much so I was just doing my best. Not sure on velocities but it seems to be up there with these results according to Strelok and the bullet BC, Approx at least.

After all the rubbish I went through I cant believe seating depth changed the whole outcome.