Cleaning, Inox/lanox

[Pinkmus]

Hi everyone,

New to cleaning firearms. Seems like there's a lot of difference on the subject but: Is it appropriate to use a couple of patches of inox mx3 or similar to "clean" fouling from the barrel of my 22lr as long as I pass a couple of dry patches afterwards and then back in the safe?

I do have a solvent (boretech eliminator) but not sure if it would be overkill to use this everytime I fire my rifles. I'm typically cleaning both the 308 and the 22 everytime I shoot them which is typically 20rds and 150 rds respectively. Should I use the solvent each time or not worry about it unless the rifles get really fouled?

I'm yet to use the bronze brushes.

Thankyou.

Cheers,

Will

[Apollo]

Hi Will,

Well I'm an old codger. Been shooting / reloading for well over 50 years.

I started with all sorts of cleaning agents and was told that Sweet's was the go to... Bull droppings... I changed to Boretech Eliminator after I did a Sweets clean and saw what Sweets didn't remove. I've had a bottle of Sweets here untouched ever since (10 odd years).

I clean my Centrefires often, especially after a competition shoot BUT I do NOT clean my Brno Model 2 unless I change the brand (Wax Coating) of my Rimfire Ammo. It shoots one hole at 50 Metres with it's desired breed of ammo. Target being Lapua Centre-X or hunting Winchester Power Points but the old version, which I have thousands of. If I clean my Brno it will not shoot accurately for 30-40 rounds later so it's always dirty but never subject to moisture.

BTW... Inox (not sure of Lanox) but Inox I use is from a Supermarket (Food Grade) like spray it on your Fry Pan and cook a Steak. It's a great moisture protector and I spray the outside of my Firearms with it then a rag and coat everything. It doesn't dry out like WD40 and the like. Smells great, run it down the barrel on a loose patch and then put away....

[Wm.Traynor]

Boretech C4 is THE STUFF for removing the Carbon Ring from the Leade, once it has built up after some hundreds of rounds or when accuracy deteriorates. Apply a patch to a jag. I use Parker Hale. Soak the patch with C4 and insert in to the chamber until you feel the rifling/leade start to grip. Leave it there, I know not how long. Overnight? The subject is dealt with at length on RimfireCentral.com.
A bronze brush would do the same job but they leave "coppery" streaks in the bore which can be removed with Boretech copper remover. Cannot recall its name.
When you have cleaned all that out you could stop rust with Ballistol, short term, 6 months or you can get Lanolin based bore preservatives by WD40, I think. However that stuff is something that I clean out with a few metho soaked patches, before shooting. Ballistol is much friendlier and it only takes a couple of patches,

Never used Inox for cleaning but there was a variety of it that was a good preservative. The spray pump kept breaking down though.

[Apollo]

Information from my Gunsmith who happens to be the Consultant Gunsmith for the NSW NRAA.

The Boretech and a few other so called Carbon Removers don't work 100%... For Carbon, Nulon Upper Engine Cleaner and let it SOAK.....!! Then patch out, scrub with JB Bore Paste and then Clean that Out... Repeat if you have access to a Bore Scope to see if the Carbon has been removed.

Then clean as normal with Boretech Eliminator...

Forget Sweets... it's long lost history....

[LawrenceA]

Its a 22 long rifle. Don't bother cleaning every time. It is not usually necessary. AS Wm Taylor said you do need to but only occasionally.

The 308 is a different subject.
First you need to know that different solvents work better on different things.
Nothing beats Sweets for Copper but it is not that crash hot on powder fouling.
Ballistol is pretty good all rounder as is Bisley's.
Neither is any good on leading.
I thought Inox was more a protector than a solvent.
Anyway that is my 2 cents worth

[Apollo]

Clean your rifle with Sweets until you think it's perfectly clean, then get ahold of some Boretech Elininator and run a patch or two of that down and be amazed at the amount of Copper Fouling you drag out.... Like I said... Sweets is long gone old tech.

Do the test like I have with a Gunsmith that has decades of experience with a Bore Scope and can tell you what he sees that is left behind....

[LawrenceA]

Clean your rifle with Sweets until you think it's perfectly clean, then get ahold of some Boretech Elininator and run a patch or two of that down and be amazed at the amount of Copper Fouling you drag out.... Like I said... Sweets is long gone old tech.

Do the test like I have with a Gunsmith that has decades of experience with a Bore Scope and can tell you what he sees that is left behind....

Well there you go.
I do powder solvent first then copper solvent then finish with an oil or Ballistol.
But depends in the gun. Some need it some don't.
I suppose as long as it works it really doesn't matter.

[No1Mk3]

I use a modified Ed's Red, no ammonia, for all my firearms except black powder. It cleans carbon well and constant use helps prevent copper buildup. It has the added bonus of being much cheaper than commercial products. I only use nylon brushes and then cloth patches. Cheers.

[straightshooter]

There is a vast amount of Bovine Excrement floating about regarding rifle bore cleaning, some of which has been repeated in a few of the preceding posts.
Rimfire cleaning:
I know some very successful smallbore shooters who have never cleaned their barrels and have shot in some cases 50000+ rounds through a barrel. But they shoot regularly and often.
For a not so regular rimfire shooter I would suggest that after shooting, a moist (not dripping wet) patch with a very light oil such as inox be pushed through the bore. The purpose is to supplement the wax coating of the bore by filling in any gaps to ensure complete protection of a chrome moly barrel. The barrel must be dry patched before use.
As for carbon rings, much like UFO's, I have heard a lot about them but never actually seen one.
One thing about carbon must be understood, nothing dissolves it. It has to be removed mechanically either by washing, scrubbing or abrading.
Centerfire cleaning:
The two principal cleaning ingredients over the years have been either Ammonium Hydroxide or Ammonium Oleate. Both are safe and effective in their own way when applied properly.
The new 'wonder' cleaning agents are 80-90% water and I would be reluctant to use them in a chrome moly barrel.
Their vociferous proponents use them in lapped stainless target barrels which generally don't copper foul much in any case.
The only way be certain that a centerfire barrel is free of copper is with a borescope inspection a couple of weeks after cleaning when any remaining copper has had enough time to either tarnish or react with preservative oil and thus become visible.

[Pinkmus]

Thanks for the advice guys. The advice makes sense. I'll lay off neurotically cleaning the 22, except to wipe down the bolt and exterior metal and might pick up some boretech eliminator for the 308 - turns out I have boretech c4. I'll look into a bore guide because I'm worried I might cause more harm than good cleaning.

Cheers,

Will.

[SCJ429]

https://riflebarrels.com/support/22-rim ... intenance/
This is what Dan Lilia says about cleaning rimfire barrels. He is an industry expert.

[Wm.Traynor]

Thank you for that SCJ429
However, I would point out that a tropical, salty environment, such as where I live, warrants the use of a bore preservative/rust inhibitor, after Lilja's procedure.

[in2anity]

My Lithgow consistently puts one high after a full clean. I sneakily put two in the dirt before a match, just before my sighters, to settle it down.

[disco stu]

Was going to start a thread along these lines, but figure I'm better asking here. I'm a hunter, so not many shots being made and rifles get wet often when out and about.

So on a 22-just run an oil patch through before storing and dry it out before shooting, and don't stress unless you see lead fouling? Anything change if its a new to me second hand rifle-as in should I get it back to mickey mouse clean and start from there?

With centrefire, I've got a stainless Howa. Club member told me not to stress too much and just run an oil patch through the bore when I get home and clean it out before leaving for next hunt. Not many shots being made while out on these hunts (unfortunately). Just say I make a shot or 2, or I've taken a few shots at the range-what exactly should my cleaning process be? Starting to get confused by many of the discussions and different opinions. I've read the Dan Liljia articles for both types. I'm starting to think I should brush and patch with something like Ed's Red or similar, but still uncertain.

[Faedy]

There is a vast amount of Bovine Excrement floating about regarding rifle bore cleaning, some of which has been repeated in a few of the preceding posts.
Rimfire cleaning:
I know some very successful smallbore shooters who have never cleaned their barrels and have shot in some cases 50000+ rounds through a barrel. But they shoot regularly and often.
For a not so regular rimfire shooter I would suggest that after shooting, a moist (not dripping wet) patch with a very light oil such as inox be pushed through the bore. The purpose is to supplement the wax coating of the bore by filling in any gaps to ensure complete protection of a chrome moly barrel. The barrel must be dry patched before use.
As for carbon rings, much like UFO's, I have heard a lot about them but never actually seen one.
One thing about carbon must be understood, nothing dissolves it. It has to be removed mechanically either by washing, scrubbing or abrading.
Centerfire cleaning:
The two principal cleaning ingredients over the years have been either Ammonium Hydroxide or Ammonium Oleate. Both are safe and effective in their own way when applied properly.
The new 'wonder' cleaning agents are 80-90% water and I would be reluctant to use them in a chrome moly barrel.
Their vociferous proponents use them in lapped stainless target barrels which generally don't copper foul much in any case.
The only way be certain that a centerfire barrel is free of copper is with a borescope inspection a couple of weeks after cleaning when any remaining copper has had enough time to either tarnish or react with preservative oil and thus become visible.

Im going to respectfully disagree with you on carbon removal - an easy way to remove it is to Oxidize it - I do it regularly at work in Fire Restoration - If you are into chemisrty ike me, there are plenty of chems to do it.

[in2anity]

Was going to start a thread along these lines, but figure I'm better asking here. I'm a hunter, so not many shots being made and rifles get wet often when out and about.

So on a 22-just run an oil patch through before storing and dry it out before shooting, and don't stress unless you see lead fouling? Anything change if its a new to me second hand rifle-as in should I get it back to mickey mouse clean and start from there?

With centrefire, I've got a stainless Howa. Club member told me not to stress too much and just run an oil patch through the bore when I get home and clean it out before leaving for next hunt. Not many shots being made while out on these hunts (unfortunately). Just say I make a shot or 2, or I've taken a few shots at the range-what exactly should my cleaning process be? Starting to get confused by many of the discussions and different opinions. I've read the Dan Liljia articles for both types. I'm starting to think I should brush and patch with something like Ed's Red or similar, but still uncertain.

I don't think it's wise to leave any fouling in your barrel long term, particularly copper fouling. As inconvenient cleaning your rifle is, wouldn't you sleep better at night knowing your barrel is resting cleaned and oiled? In my eyes cleaning is just the conservative option... I've seen guns that have been left "fouled" after hunting, long term, and sad to say but eventually it pits the f***k out of the barrel. I saw a beautiful old SAKO ruined like this...

[disco stu]

Was going to start a thread along these lines, but figure I'm better asking here. I'm a hunter, so not many shots being made and rifles get wet often when out and about.

So on a 22-just run an oil patch through before storing and dry it out before shooting, and don't stress unless you see lead fouling? Anything change if its a new to me second hand rifle-as in should I get it back to mickey mouse clean and start from there?

With centrefire, I've got a stainless Howa. Club member told me not to stress too much and just run an oil patch through the bore when I get home and clean it out before leaving for next hunt. Not many shots being made while out on these hunts (unfortunately). Just say I make a shot or 2, or I've taken a few shots at the range-what exactly should my cleaning process be? Starting to get confused by many of the discussions and different opinions. I've read the Dan Liljia articles for both types. I'm starting to think I should brush and patch with something like Ed's Red or similar, but still uncertain.

I don't think it's wise to leave any fouling in your barrel long term, particularly copper fouling. As inconvenient cleaning your rifle is, wouldn't you sleep better at night knowing your barrel is resting cleaned and oiled? In my eyes cleaning is just the conservative option... I've seen guns that have been left "fouled" after hunting, long term, and sad to say but eventually it pits the f***k out of the barrel. I saw a beautiful old SAKO ruined like this...

Cheers. Isn't there the argument that they shoot better with that copper fouling, and after a thorough clean you need to have at least a few shots to get it grouping well again?

[Wm.Traynor]

in2anity (8:53 am) is exactly right. One and only one, of my barrels pitted owing to inadequate cleaning.

disco stu (1:48 pm). Your rifle, rimfire/centrefire, might shoot better when fouled. Quite a few do including one that was sold. It was an irritating rimfire that needed 50 shots before coming good, after cleaning and oiling. The question as I see it is, "Do you want your rifle to group or do you want it to rust?" That is the harsh reality, IMO. To put it another way, it is the chance that we take when buying a rifle. It is not a truth that we like to think about or confront. Instead, we pays our money and takes our chances.

Of course, there are ways to compromise: balancing the two risks, corrosion and inaccuracy. On a prolonged hunt of several days, you might not clean at all until it's all over and you are going home. Same goes for multi-day Prize Meetings. The prevailing wisdom is that "next-day-shooting", removes the previous days' rust and overall the damage is negligible and you would suffer it for the sake of a good time.

[disco stu]

I've been doing a fair bit of reading and it seems I've collected some incorrect info as far as the cleaning goes. It appears the info is right for rimfire though. Thanks for that.

Just to note, I wasn't ever thinking of not protecting from corrosion. I like to oil the bore and dry it out before next hunt. The cleaning itself doesn't protect from corrosion anyway, just the oiling afterwards

[disco stu]

Actually, another question along these lines (sorry, never been able to ask before). I've noticed that solvent is recommended to just be dried out with patches. My preference when using cleaning chemicals for technical process is to wash it out rather than just dry it, especially something that affects certain metals. Anyone do this with rifles, and what do you normally use? I'm assuming most of the copper stuff would be water based, and for carbon be hydrocarbon based

[in2anity]

Cheers. Isn't there the argument that they shoot better with that copper fouling, and after a thorough clean you need to have at least a few shots to get it grouping well again?

Oh yes definitely. Happens to all my rifles. Hence the value of your sighting shots.

[disco stu]

Cheers. Isn't there the argument that they shoot better with that copper fouling, and after a thorough clean you need to have at least a few shots to get it grouping well again?

Oh yes definitely. Happens to all my rifles. Hence the value of your sighting shots.

I think that might have been you who mentioned here, or elsewhere, that you shoot a few into the dirt first. I gather then that it's only a few rounds and it's fine? I was picturing 20+ rounds through it. I'm coming from a hunting perspective, where I might only take a few shots per year (let's be realistic here, that's a good year for me!), yet a lot of info seems to come from target shooters who are shooting more in one session than I would in whole years sighting in and hunting combined. Still, definitely learning the do's and dont's

[disco stu]

Just to note, I wasn't ever thinking of not protecting from corrosion. I like to oil the bore and dry it out before next hunt. The cleaning itself doesn't protect from corrosion anyway, just the oiling afterwards

I've now realised that the "cleaners" used contain oil and therefore do protect from corrosion. What I was meaning was that I wasn't leaving it unprotected.

That's the issue I'm having here with getting my head around it all. Coming from non shooting background the terms used leave me with a different idea of what's happening. Solvent in my experience would be something like acetone alone, which cleans things off but doesn't leave any protection at all. In my science and mechanical background, a solvent would never be mixed with a protector, that would be a separate step

[in2anity]

I think that might have been you who mentioned here, or elsewhere, that you shoot a few into the dirt first. I gather then that it's only a few rounds and it's fine? I was picturing 20+ rounds through it. I'm coming from a hunting perspective, where I might only take a few shots per year (let's be realistic here, that's a good year for me!), yet a lot of info seems to come from target shooters who are shooting more in one session than I would in whole years sighting in and hunting combined. Still, definitely learning the do's and dont's

Yes that opening shot is always a little dubious. Lead slingers like the 22lr are particularly prone to it. You can actually see and smell any oil residue being vaporized on the line for shot #1. For high-power, of course it will effect the trajectory - but only slightly, in most cases. More of a concern for the F guys. IMO not enough to worry about out in the sticks, especially if you keep your shots under reasonable distances. I guess if you think it could cause problems, you should keep track of how your specific gun/load/cleaning-regime behaves in this manner? And just factor the behavior in on your odd hunting trip? Either that or put a fouling shot or two into the dirt before you set off...

[disco stu]

I think that might have been you who mentioned here, or elsewhere, that you shoot a few into the dirt first. I gather then that it's only a few rounds and it's fine? I was picturing 20+ rounds through it. I'm coming from a hunting perspective, where I might only take a few shots per year (let's be realistic here, that's a good year for me!), yet a lot of info seems to come from target shooters who are shooting more in one session than I would in whole years sighting in and hunting combined. Still, definitely learning the do's and dont's

Yes that opening shot is always a little dubious. Lead slingers like the 22lr are particularly prone to it. You can actually see and smell any oil residue being vaporized on the line for shot #1. For high-power, of course it will effect the trajectory - but only slightly, in most cases. More of a concern for the F guys. IMO not enough to worry about out in the sticks, especially if you keep your shots under reasonable distances. I guess if you think it could cause problems, you should keep track of how your specific gun/load/cleaning-regime behaves in this manner? And just factor the behavior in on your odd hunting trip? Either that or put a fouling shot or two into the dirt before you set off...

Thanks. All the info is starting to fall into place, makes sense