Can a gunsmith in Australia make a magazine?

[<<Genesis93>>]

I dont see why heat treating is necessary, the mag isn't subject to repeated loading, bending, stress... even the lips contact a softer material.

Because the lips are under pressure of the spring as well as the following round coming up to them as the bolt moves reward.
If the lips aren't strengthened they don't last long at all.
The best way I've found is to cut the feed lips out of billet and just hang a box off that.

No... the steel, even mild steel / carbon steel, formed into the lips [plastic deformed] has a tensile strength that would withstand the relatively insignificant spring force without approaching anywhere near a limit ...my opinion is no heat treatment necessary...but thats only my opinion.

[bladeracer]

I dont see why heat treating is necessary, the mag isn't subject to repeated loading, bending, stress... even the lips contact a softer material.

Because the lips are under pressure of the spring as well as the following round coming up to them as the bolt moves reward.
If the lips aren't strengthened they don't last long at all.
The best way I've found is to cut the feed lips out of billet and just hang a box off that.

No... the steel, even mild steel / carbon steel, formed into the lips [plastic deformed] has a tensile strength that would withstand the relatively insignificant spring force without approaching anywhere near a limit ...my opinion is no heat treatment necessary...but thats only my opinion.

You're right for short-term use. If you want to get a reasonable amount of life out of it without having to reshape the feed lips constantly, heat treat them or make the feed lips from billet. Feed lips don't need to bend very much at all to cause feed problems. Heat treating the feed lips is _very_ easy and quick with no downside.

[Oldbloke]

Why dont you buy the galil magazines? If 12 is too big, shorten it

[Mr.Seacucumber]

Why dont you buy the galil magazines? If 12 is too big, shorten it

Victoria police only accepts magazines at the original capacity.

[Chronos]

Any old school gunsmith (by that I mean not some guy with a lathe that threads barrels and calls himself a gunsmith) should be able to modify something to work, I'd be looking at actually modding the Vektor to accept something like an AI mag or P-mag or something else with a retention system that can be made to work

Chronos

[bladeracer]

A quick Google says you can get mag well adaptors for the Galil to take AR15 mags, does this adaptor fit your Vektor?
I saw at least two manufacturers of these adaptors so I would think it'd be fairly easy to make something similar for the Vektor to allow you to use 10-round AR15 mags.

Is a D-class licencee or Collector or dealer allowed to import the larger capacity mags? Then they can shorten them to 10-rounds and sell them on to you as 10-round mags?

I also saw that IMI made 5-round mags for the Galil which you could then extend to 10-rounds if you must have ten.

[Bills Shed]

I dont see why heat treating is necessary, the mag isn't subject to repeated loading, bending, stress... even the lips contact a softer material.

Because the lips are under pressure of the spring as well as the following round coming up to them as the bolt moves reward.
If the lips aren't strengthened they don't last long at all.
The best way I've found is to cut the feed lips out of billet and just hang a box off that.

I have built a couple of magazines for the old hornets and as a machinist all I can say it is the time taken for the build that will cost. As it is a one of and if you do not have very specific drawings, the build will be one of trial and error. That said I have found that the hardest part was not the build but the function of the mag. There is plenty of forums out there stating how the mag fits but does not feed. If it looks pretty but does not work you have done your dollars. The build is not that hard if you have one to measure up and the springs and followers are easy. What it will take is a lot of is time and patience, same as any one off, hand built and fitted part.
Best of luck
Bill

[Mr.Seacucumber]

A quick Google says you can get mag well adaptors for the Galil to take AR15 mags, does this adaptor fit your Vektor?
I saw at least two manufacturers of these adaptors so I would think it'd be fairly easy to make something similar for the Vektor to allow you to use 10-round AR15 mags.

Is a D-class licencee or Collector or dealer allowed to import the larger capacity mags? Then they can shorten them to 10-rounds and sell them on to you as 10-round mags?

I also saw that IMI made 5-round mags for the Galil which you could then extend to 10-rounds if you must have ten.

Yep they make the adapters but for the semi auto Galil, they won't fit in this Vektor as it has a different receiver, that's if I was able to important them in the first place which I can't due to customs being customs.

Nope even if they are shortened th still count as the original capacity.

Those mags are beyond impossible to find, like on a whole other level or rarity.

[Mr.Seacucumber]

Any old school gunsmith (by that I mean not some guy with a lathe that threads barrels and calls himself a gunsmith) should be able to modify something to work, I'd be looking at actually modding the Vektor to accept something like an AI mag or P-mag or something else with a retention system that can be made to work

Chronos

Yea this is the same conclusion I came to aswell, I've been contacting a few gun smith, I think modifying the gun itself will be the "easiest" way to go.

[Supaduke]

Do you really need more than 2 mags? Sounds like a lot of time and money for a small amount of convenience. From what I'm reading it really doesn't seem cost effective. Money better spent on something else, like another rifle. Can't imagine many situations where you would really need that 3rd mag in a hurry. They don't take that long to load up. Just an observation, it is your money of course , to be spent however you see fit.

[Mr.Seacucumber]

Do you really need more than 2 mags? Sounds like a lot of time and money for a small amount of convenience. From what I'm reading it really doesn't seem cost effective. Money better spent on something else, like another rifle. Can't imagine many situations where you would really need that 3rd mag in a hurry. They don't take that long to load up. Just an observation, it is your money of course , to be spent however you see fit.

I have one mag, the 12 round one had to be given to somone who isn't me due to the legislation state you can't posses a mag which is high capacity and have the rifle it goes into, which I only just found out it was 12 so yea, I have one mag now haha.

Yea I could spend it on something else but at the end of the day it raises the selling price of the rifle so it's a kind of investment. Plus I'm not aloud anymore rifles, the misses is onto me haha finally caught up to the fact the fun safe was filling up haha.

[bladeracer]

I have built a couple of magazines for the old hornets and as a machinist all I can say it is the time taken for the build that will cost. As it is a one of and if you do not have very specific drawings, the build will be one of trial and error. That said I have found that the hardest part was not the build but the function of the mag. There is plenty of forums out there stating how the mag fits but does not feed. If it looks pretty but does not work you have done your dollars. The build is not that hard if you have one to measure up and the springs and followers are easy. What it will take is a lot of is time and patience, same as any one off, hand built and fitted part.
Best of luck
Bill

Yep, making the mag is easy, making it work is much harder
It's a lot easier if you start with a mag with feed lips that work and simply modify the capacity.

[VICHunter]

This beast of a thing, Vektor H5, it takes standard Galil magazines which cant be purchased in less then 12 rounds :/

I wonder (haven't checked the legalities) could a dealer/smith order in a factory 12-shot magazine and fill/modify the base to lower the capacity to 10 rounds?

I would think that's a more effective alternative to making one from scratch (assuming it's possible).

I think I remember from past conversations somewhere if the capacity of a magazine is reduced by a gunsmith it is ok for cat B.

[bladeracer]

Yep they make the adapters but for the semi auto Galil, they won't fit in this Vektor as it has a different receiver, that's if I was able to important them in the first place which I can't due to customs being customs.

Nope even if they are shortened th still count as the original capacity.

Those mags are beyond impossible to find, like on a whole other level or rarity.

I assumed you couldn't import the adapter, but it should be a fairly easy job to make one.
Whether that would allow you to keep the Vektor though I don't know, perhaps if it were welded in place? But the rifle seems to have some rarity and collector value so I wouldn't be wanting to modify it just to be able to shoot it.
I would just keep it on a Collectors licence as you aren't allowed to shoot it then anyway.

How do they know whether or not you have any magazines of any capacity? If IMI produced 5-round mags for it I can't see why you can't own it while you try to source such magazines for it.

[Mr.Seacucumber]

Yep they make the adapters but for the semi auto Galil, they won't fit in this Vektor as it has a different receiver, that's if I was able to important them in the first place which I can't due to customs being customs.

Nope even if they are shortened th still count as the original capacity.

Those mags are beyond impossible to find, like on a whole other level or rarity.

I assumed you couldn't import the adapter, but it should be a fairly easy job to make one.
Whether that would allow you to keep the Vektor though I don't know, perhaps if it were welded in place? But the rifle seems to have some rarity and collector value so I wouldn't be wanting to modify it just to be able to shoot it.
I would just keep it on a Collectors licence as you aren't allowed to shoot it then anyway.

How do they know whether or not you have any magazines of any capacity? If IMI produced 5-round mags for it I can't see why you can't own it while you try to source such magazines for it.

I can keep the Vektor no matter what, I have a 10 shot magazine for it, I just wanted more haha. Yea it's rare but it's an amazing shooter so I'm not going to stuff it away and keep it in a safe.

I can own it, and they don't.

[Mr.Seacucumber]

This beast of a thing, Vektor H5, it takes standard Galil magazines which cant be purchased in less then 12 rounds :/

I wonder (haven't checked the legalities) could a dealer/smith order in a factory 12-shot magazine and fill/modify the base to lower the capacity to 10 rounds?

I would think that's a more effective alternative to making one from scratch (assuming it's possible).

I think I remember from past conversations somewhere if the capacity of a magazine is reduced by a gunsmith it is ok for cat B.

I asked licensing and registration a few days ago and it's if it was a 30 round magazine it's always a 30 round magazine. It's pretty stupid.

[bladeracer]

I asked licensing and registration a few days ago and it's if it was a 30 round magazine it's always a 30 round magazine. It's pretty stupid.

How would they know a shortened mag was ever anything other than a ten-round mag?

But, if for some reason you ever got pulled up for having a modified "twelve-round mag" I would think it'd be sufficient to demonstrate that it only holds ten rounds.
Might be worth discussing it with one of the firearm lawyers to apply for a chief commissioner's permit for a prescribed item (under 57(2)(b)) due to the value and rarity of the rifle to allow you to modify the mags to hold ten-rounds?

[Mr.Seacucumber]

I asked licensing and registration a few days ago and it's if it was a 30 round magazine it's always a 30 round magazine. It's pretty stupid.

How would they know a shortened mag was ever anything other than a ten-round mag?

But, if for some reason you ever got pulled up for having a modified "twelve-round mag" I would think it'd be sufficient to demonstrate that it only holds ten rounds.
Might be worth discussing it with one of the firearm lawyers to apply for a chief commissioner's permit for a prescribed item (under 57(2)(b)) due to the value and rarity of the rifle to allow you to modify the mags to hold ten-rounds?

How much would that cost do you think?

[<<Genesis93>>]

I asked licensing and registration a few days ago and it's if it was a 30 round magazine it's always a 30 round magazine. It's pretty stupid.

Thats the thing with Vicpol.... THAT MAKE IT UP as they go along......what a L.O.S.

Its not 'illegal' to own unless in combination with a firearm... so technically your mate could import or otherwise acuire a mag, modify it to the appropriate capacity then give possession to you..

If it holds 10 rounds.... then it holds 10 rounds...

[bladeracer]

How much would that cost do you think?

Couldn't even guess but you did say that cost wasn't a problem.

I was looking through the Act though and I can't find any magazine capacity restriction on pump-action centre-fire rifles in there.

Cat A is airguns, non-semi-auto rimfire rifles, non-semi-auto or pump-action shotguns, combination shotgun/rimfire rifles.
Cat B is muzzle loading firearms, non-semi-auto centrefire rifles, combination shotgun/centrefire rifles, black powder cannons.
Cat C is semi-auto 10-round rimfire rifles, semi-auto and pump-action 5-round shotguns, tranquiliser guns.
Cat D is semi-auto 11+round rimfire rifles, semi-auto and pump-action 6+round shotguns, semi-auto centrefire rifles, firearms prescribed or declared by the Chief Commissioner.

Is magazine capacity restricted for pump-action rifles somewhere other than the Firearms Act?

[Mr.Seacucumber]

How much would that cost do you think?

Couldn't even guess but you did say that cost wasn't a problem.

I was looking through the Act though and I can't find any magazine capacity restriction on pump-action centre-fire rifles in there.

Cat A is airguns, non-semi-auto rimfire rifles, non-semi-auto or pump-action shotguns, combination shotgun/rimfire rifles.
Cat B is muzzle loading firearms, non-semi-auto centrefire rifles, combination shotgun/centrefire rifles, black powder cannons.
Cat C is semi-auto 10-round rimfire rifles, semi-auto and pump-action 5-round shotguns, tranquiliser guns.
Cat D is semi-auto 11+round rimfire rifles, semi-auto and pump-action 6+round shotguns, semi-auto centrefire rifles, firearms prescribed or declared by the Chief Commissioner.

Is magazine capacity restricted for pump-action rifles somewhere other than the Firearms Act?

It is a cat B centrefire rifle

haha a couple thousand is a problem, a couple of tens of thousand and I might run into issues with the misses, much harder to hide that amount of money spent haha

[Supaduke]

There is no restriction on 'fixed' magazines for pump action ie: tube mags

Detachable mags are restricted to 10 in vic.

[Mr.Seacucumber]

There is no restriction on 'fixed' magazines for pump action ie: tube mags

Detachable mags are restricted to 10 in vic.

Shame I cant weld it to the rifle and feed with stripper clips :/

[Homer]

G'Day Fella's,

Seacucumber, I'm sure the Vector rifles, use AK-47 or SKK magazines?


Doh!
Homer

[Mr.Seacucumber]

G'Day Fella's,

Seacucumber, I'm sure the Vector rifles, use AK-47 or SKK magazines?

Nope, it uses Galil magazines

Doh!
Homer

[<<Genesis93>>]

Isnt the Galil based on a rifle based on an AK??

[Mr.Seacucumber]

Isnt the Galil based on a rifle based on an AK??

Yep but it's far enough down the line where the magazines no longer fit, not that I would give it a shot if I had some.

[Blackjack]

Hey sydor - do you have contact details for David Waters? The email addresses on the website aren't working.

[Mr.Seacucumber]

Hey sydor - do you have contact details for David Waters? The email addresses on the website aren't working.

I just emailed him on the website with the sales email. Nice guy.

[ICEng]

Nik (head gunsmith) here from Ignition Custom Engineering.

We can help out, we are full D class manufacturing gunsmiths and do plenty of mag conversions for just about anything.

We can also import if something isn't readily available here.

Give me a call tomorrow and I can talk you through some options 0402 219 831 or email [email protected]