Cutting barrel down. Yes or no?

Improving and repairing firearms. Rifle bedding, barrel work, stock replacement and other ways to improve your firearms.

Re: Cutting barrel down. Yes or no?

Post by Rod_outbak » 25 Aug 2018, 5:07 pm

[quote="Toolnup"]

[quote="SCJ429"]A Remington that shoots really well? When did this happen? Must be a A or B series. How well does it shoot?[/quote]

Yeah I know they get a bad rap but mine will shoot sub MOA all day if I do my part.

[/quote]

Yeah, my Rem 700 VSF in .308 has been a pearler since day 1.
6 years old to date, and never had a day when I regretted buying it.

I know that I've been told that there are plenty of later model Remingtons that had serious quality control issues, but mine has been proven to be a fantastic rifle.
My mate who worked up loads for me, found he could shoot ragged 1-hole groups(5 rounds) at 100m with it.
I know Remington have been hit & miss in the recent past, but I couldnt complain about mine at all.
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Re: Cutting barrel down. Yes or no?

Post by SCJ429 » 25 Aug 2018, 7:11 pm

Sorry Toolnup, I didn't mean to have a laugh at your expense. I have a friend who has a Remington 5R Sendero that shoots in the .4s. Remington does seem to do better with Varmint barrels in 30 cal. I have another friend with a 22/250 who couldn't hit the side of a barn door. I thought that he was just a terrible shot but after hundreds of rounds load testing it would not shoot better than five inches. He sold it and moved on. That rifle was soul destroying for a new shooter.
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Re: Cutting barrel down. Yes or no?

Post by Toolnup » 25 Aug 2018, 8:18 pm

All good, no worries.

Yeah I've had mine for a while and i do remember ordering it and then having second thoughts as the qc issues came to light.

The only drama i have had was the trigger recall a few years ago that needed to be done. But ended up with a much nicer trigger out of it so that was good.

Still like the idea of having a short heavy barreled rifle of some kind.
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Re: Cutting barrel down. Yes or no?

Post by Oldbloke » 25 Aug 2018, 8:24 pm

No expert here. But I think all you need is a mate with a half decent lathe
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Re: Cutting barrel down. Yes or no?

Post by bigpete » 26 Aug 2018, 5:04 pm

Oldbloke wrote:No expert here. But I think all you need is a mate with a half decent lathe


I've done them with a hacksaw lol.
Shot 3/4" groups before and after.
Too easy
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Re: Cutting barrel down. Yes or no?

Post by Oldbloke » 26 Aug 2018, 6:22 pm

bigpete wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:No expert here. But I think all you need is a mate with a half decent lathe


I've done them with a hacksaw lol.
Shot 3/4" groups before and after.
Too easy


Same here.. Did a 22lr yonks ago and used a hack saw, then file then counter sink drill. Finished it off by lapping. Lol shot great after the job was done..
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Re: Cutting barrel down. Yes or no?

Post by marksman » 26 Aug 2018, 6:34 pm

I fixed one for a guy who attacked his barrel with a hacksaw after doing the projectile test on the muzzle and the projectile fell into the bore a bit
I draw filed it flat and square but couldn't give a guarantee it would be any better than what he had done
I squared it by poking a rod that fitted fairly tight into the bore and putting a square against it and the messy muzzle
I did the crown with a brass dome nut on a bolt in a drill with valve grinding paste and some metal polish
made it better, went from 4" moa to 3/4" at 100, it was an old sporter 303, he still has it and it still shoots as good
a lathe is a much smarter thing to use :drinks:
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Re: Cutting barrel down. Yes or no?

Post by Oldbloke » 26 Aug 2018, 6:40 pm

"I did the crown with a brass dome nut on a bolt in a drill with valve grinding paste and some metal polish "

I did the same. But used a ball bearing welded to a rod with lapping paste.
:D
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Re: Cutting barrel down. Yes or no?

Post by bigpete » 26 Aug 2018, 7:45 pm

Didn't bother doing the crown on any of mine. Eventually got a gunsmith to crown one,made not one jot of difference.
Even coned the barrel of my hawken using hand tools. Also made zero difference
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Re: Cutting barrel down. Yes or no?

Post by Oldbloke » 26 Aug 2018, 9:03 pm

Interesting.. Makes you wonder just how important is the crown.. The way some people talk it's critical. But from above experience not so important......?
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Re: Cutting barrel down. Yes or no?

Post by bigpete » 27 Aug 2018, 6:12 am

I've no doubt it can affect the direction of bullet travel,after all,I have removed metal from the inside of the crown of a sxs shotgun to regulate the barrels together.
And I'm sure that I wouldn't hacksaw up a long range rig. But I'm positive that as long as the crown is cut straight and even most guys wouldn't be able to tell much difference. I've done 2 22s,a22wmr,a 308,a 303,and a 223, and none of them shot worse after being done
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Re: Cutting barrel down. Yes or no?

Post by straightshooter » 27 Aug 2018, 8:08 am

The importance of the crown is vastly over rated, especially by target shooters, provided the rifle bore has no defects at the muzzle.
Think about it, again provided the bore is sound and correctly dimensioned at the muzzle, what changes from shot to shot even with hack sawn at a 45 degree angle?
Because the crown is readily visible, gunsmiths take particular care as it is an indicator of their skill and workmanship and thus the crown is regarded with unwarranted reverence by many shooters.

Edit: I forgot to say that in a 308 a 22" barrel is an excellent compromise in weight, handiness and velocity potential.
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Re: Cutting barrel down. Yes or no?

Post by Rod_outbak » 27 Aug 2018, 10:30 am

[quote="Homer"]
G'Day Fella's,

Basically Toolup, I'd say No.
Better to sell it and buy a new one that has the features you now require.
The reason I suggest this is, most rifle barrels these days, have a slight restriction (referred to as Choke), in the last part of the barrel, near the muzzle.
If you shorten the barrel, you may loose this and no longer have the same accuracy, that you presently have at 26"???

Hope that helps

D'oh!
Homer
[/quote]

Homer, I'd REALLY like some more info about this.
The only rifles I can find any reference to having any sort of choke, are some vague mentions of some high-end air rifles, and some target .22's.

I've seen NOTHING about centrefire rifles having any sort of barrel restriction near the muzzle.
From what I've since read about the various techniques for producing a barrel and boring/rifling same, it seems a rather hard thing to achieve in a centrefire rifle without causing excessive/dangerous pressures.
Can you point me towards some online info about restrictions/chokes in centrefire rifles?

Cheers,

Rod.
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Re: Cutting barrel down. Yes or no?

Post by straightshooter » 28 Aug 2018, 7:28 am

Rod
Most production barrels today are cold forged. The predominant process is hammer forging. These processes generally can't easily introduce a taper into the bore.
It can be done on a custom basis with button rifling but adds to considerably to production cost.
So the answer is generally there is no intentional taper in production barrels but with target barrels things are different.
Where commodity production barrels might cost $50 to produce a custom target barrel might cost $250.
Don't confuse production cost with selling price.
With a custom target barrel a taper can be introduced with hand lapping in the best barrels or machine lapping in cheaper barrels. The taper will be barely measurable with normally available measuring instruments rather it will be 'felt' while lapping.
Generally speaking it has been found that with quality projectiles a bore tapering towards the muzzle does not seem to offer any advantage. Not so if the taper is in the wrong direction.
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Re: Cutting barrel down. Yes or no?

Post by marksman » 28 Aug 2018, 3:59 pm

here's what Dan Lilja has to say about what makes a rifle barrel accurate
http://riflebarrels.com/what-makes-a-ri ... -accurate/

I have had many discussions with very smart machinists who chamber barrels and have been told in the past that a slight restriction at the end of the bore is a good thing, especially in a rimfire, how it was explained to me was that when you get a hand lapped match barrel it has been lapped from one end and makes the bore slightly restricted at the end that the lap does not exit so the chamber is always put at the end that has the stamps that the lap was put in the bore, and when a bore is burning out it is looser at the chamber and tighter at the muzzle?
its what I have been led to believe for a long while :unknown:
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Re: Cutting barrel down. Yes or no?

Post by Rod_outbak » 28 Aug 2018, 6:01 pm

marksman and straightshooter; Many thanks.
You confirmed what little info I could find on the subject.

From what I could learn, I'd be pretty close to mark in saying that VERY FEW modern production-line rifles have this restriction in the barrel.

However, it raises a further question as a result.

Why is Homer advising against reducing the length of the OP's barrel, in a firearm that is HIGHLY UNLIKELY to have such a restriction at the muzzle end of the barrel, in case the OP loses that restriction?
I quote: "The reason I suggest this is, most rifle barrels these days, have a slight restriction (referred to as Choke), in the last part of the barrel, near the muzzle.
If you shorten the barrel, you may loose this and no longer have the same accuracy, that you presently have at 26"???"

What do you reckon the chances are that a Remington 700 Varmint has a restriction in the barrel to enhance accuracy?
Hint: Buckleys and none...

I remain confused.

Rod.
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Re: Cutting barrel down. Yes or no?

Post by bigpete » 28 Aug 2018, 7:25 pm

Sprinter firearms still make 22lr choked to .20 at the end. Nearly thinking about buying one,but I don't have a spare $600....
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Re: Cutting barrel down. Yes or no?

Post by Stix » 28 Aug 2018, 11:15 pm

bigpete wrote:Sprinter firearms still make 22lr choked to .20 at the end. Nearly thinking about buying one,but I don't have a spare $600....


Gee for that money you'd just buy a cz 452 or similar...get an entire rifle for just a little more. :unknown:
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Re: Cutting barrel down. Yes or no?

Post by bigpete » 29 Aug 2018, 5:53 am

Yes,but they'd still just be a standard 22 or 17.....
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Re: Cutting barrel down. Yes or no?

Post by Toolnup » 03 Sep 2018, 7:50 pm

Got a quick price from a gunsmith today.

Cut and recrown barrel = $100
Cut and thread barrel = $110
Supply and fit new chrome moly barrel = $740

Still procrastinating about it. If I went to the trouble of changing barrels I would maybe stick with the long barrel and swap to 6.5 CM, apparently It's a fairly easy conversion? This would be my range gun.
I could then look around for a cheap more portable 308.

Hmm, first world problems.
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