2 shot semi auto Cat B centrefire

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Re: 2 shot semi auto Cat B centrefire

Post by Ecobogan » 06 Dec 2018, 2:26 pm

Yes that's the one.... jewelry with a trigger.
Refer me to your other thread crazy, sounds cool
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Re: 2 shot semi auto Cat B centrefire

Post by bigpete » 06 Dec 2018, 2:28 pm

Seems like an answer to an unasked question...its real simple,if its semi auto it's not category B,whether it holds 2 rounds or 20.

As for "are double rifles a done thing".
Well,yes,yes they are. Plenty of offerings under 10k,several substantially less. And all available under category B....
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Re: 2 shot semi auto Cat B centrefire

Post by Crazy » 06 Dec 2018, 2:38 pm

Ecobogan wrote:Yes that's the one.... jewelry with a trigger.
Refer me to your other thread crazy, sounds cool

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=10906
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Re: 2 shot semi auto Cat B centrefire

Post by bladeracer » 06 Dec 2018, 2:39 pm

Ecobogan wrote:Maybe the double rifle is the way forward and I'd be very interested in it's development too.
Found this piece of 10/10 awesomeness.... possibly what you were referring to? Umm...still working out how to upload attachments.
Anyway it's the Sceszi&Fuchs double barrel bolt action and looks nothing short of amazing....85k later though
Also the 'Yarra Shelia' is such a bent name for a gun it'd be worth signing up for one based on that alone!


That is the action I was referring to.
There's no reason for that price as the actual mechanism would be fairly simple to gear two bolt heads together.

If you're interested in the Yarra, follow Acmefirearms on Facebook as they're keeping us updated with construction and design videos, and also asking our opinions on things.
http://www.acme-firearms.com.au/ideal%20small%20arms/yarra-sheila.html

I'm not particularly enamoured with the rifle or the design, as I'm sure a bolt-action will be a more useful rifle in every way possible - at half or even a third of the cost. My offer of support is primarily because they're trying to do this at a reasonable price for our market. If it comes out over $2K I won't be buying it.
Last edited by bladeracer on 06 Dec 2018, 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2 shot semi auto Cat B centrefire

Post by bladeracer » 06 Dec 2018, 2:40 pm

Crazy wrote:I have also had an idea which i have created a thread for a couple of weeks ago, i had the idea of creating a double action semi-auto. Very similar to a striker fire but instead of a firing pin being lifted by the trigger a hammer would be. Considering double action carbines are a thing i don't see how this could be illegal but like many things its a grey area.


I think semi-auto mainly refers to the automatic feeding of ammunition rather than how the hammer is dropped.
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Re: 2 shot semi auto Cat B centrefire

Post by Ecobogan » 06 Dec 2018, 4:37 pm

Fair point bigpete and this notion I'm raising is somewhat ambiguous and is probably more a legislative one rather than firearms technology.
I perhaps should've asked " If proof could be (somehow) provided of an untamperable 2 shot semi auto, would that be grounds to approach the authorities to reclassify Cat D to state ' semi auto centrefire of more than 2 rounds'?"
Of course now the validity of a 2 shot semi auto is questionable however if it's effectively the same as a double barrel Cat B rifle then maybe it could work.
Motorcycle licences were kind of reviewed in a similar way. They're now power to weight based not cubic capacity....you can ride a neutered 600 on your P's. How about a neutered semi auto for Cat B.....
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Re: 2 shot semi auto Cat B centrefire

Post by cracker » 06 Dec 2018, 5:05 pm

Ecobogan wrote:Fair point bigpete and this notion I'm raising is somewhat ambiguous and is probably more a legislative one rather than firearms technology.
I perhaps should've asked " If proof could be (somehow) provided of an untamperable 2 shot semi auto, would that be grounds to approach the authorities to reclassify Cat D to state ' semi auto centrefire of more than 2 rounds'?"
Of course now the validity of a 2 shot semi auto is questionable however if it's effectively the same as a double barrel Cat B rifle then maybe it could work.
Motorcycle licences were kind of reviewed in a similar way. They're now power to weight based not cubic capacity....you can ride a neutered 600 on your P's. How about a neutered semi auto for Cat B.....


it would be honestly easier to get a handgun,collectors or dealers license then try and get legislation changed.
your not getting a semi auto other wise.
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Re: 2 shot semi auto Cat B centrefire

Post by Ecobogan » 06 Dec 2018, 5:17 pm

Gotcha....worth me asking you guys about though!
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Re: 2 shot semi auto Cat B centrefire

Post by Wombat » 06 Dec 2018, 6:04 pm

Crazy wrote:I have also had an idea which i have created a thread for a couple of weeks ago, i had the idea of creating a double action semi-auto. Very similar to a striker fire but instead of a firing pin being lifted by the trigger a hammer would be. Considering double action carbines are a thing i don't see how this could be illegal but like many things its a grey area.

Not really a grey area. Like I said on your earlier thread "So a rifle version of a Glock". A Glock is both double action AND semi automatic. :unknown:
What you are describing is a self loading rifle - or semi auto, a Revolving Rifle is a completely different action.
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Re: 2 shot semi auto Cat B centrefire

Post by Ecobogan » 06 Dec 2018, 6:36 pm

I mean gotcha as in I understand but may still probe it in my own way. Don't want to bore anyone
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Re: 2 shot semi auto Cat B centrefire

Post by Ecobogan » 06 Dec 2018, 7:06 pm

And thanks bladeracer for the link.. I'll keep eyes on it
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Re: 2 shot semi auto Cat B centrefire

Post by GojiraSteve » 07 Dec 2018, 7:53 am

With a bit of luck you might just get it through legislation, perhaps by lobbying for a 6th category (with a bit more luck you might get 2 shot semi-auto shotguns lumped in with it and lower the bar for ownership of those too (Cat F sporting semi-autos?).

The question is would anyone buy a 2 shot semi-auto centrefire?

I'm not sure I would, basically it sounds like the difference between 5 shots in 5 seconds with a standard bolt action (without even rushing too much) vs your semi-auto offering 2 shots in one second with 3 or 4 seconds to reload and then two more shots in quick succession. So one shot less on target for the same amount of time.
Now how often will you need five shots at something to do the job? Not that often, but I reckon on the times one isn't enough, you'll want three as often as you need two.
My feeling is, your standard bolt action is the more efficient system, unless we use a pretty narrow set of parameters. And its the more versatile system under any set of parameters we might use.
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Re: 2 shot semi auto Cat B centrefire

Post by Ecobogan » 07 Dec 2018, 8:41 am

Thanks mate that's a very good point. The vast bulk of the shooting I do is rabbits, foxes and hares with a 10 shot CZ453
Not even a week ago a hare came into the yard, this is a six acre yard. I took aim and shot it...the hare was moving slightly and I missed a kill shot. It was knocked down, got up sat there stunned for a second then took off. Damn! I took off after it and it stopped at the fence, this time a lot further away. I managed to get in a second shot and it was dead.
It occurred to me that a 2 shot semi auto having a near instant follow up shot would probably have put it down in the first instance.
I then got to thinking... could that be a thing?
A friend down the road who's an avid deer hunter agrees. Yes we could all be a better shot and I practice pretty much everyday hitting the head of a batten screw at 50m with 6-7/10 hits and want to keep getting better.
Truth is we don't always get it right and an instant follow up shot may just prevent a wounded animal escaping.
It was just an idea which is why I put it to you guys....maybe the double barrel rifle or others are the way to go
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Re: 2 shot semi auto Cat B centrefire

Post by marksman » 07 Dec 2018, 9:54 am

my favourite thing when we had self loaders was to have a mate back to back with me on the top of a good warren with a bucket of shells and ferrets chasing the rabbits out at 100mph :lol: :lol: :drinks: better fun than shooting clays :thumbsup:
it was great fun and you really thinned out the rabbits for the farmers, we used to take 500 or so shells and usually go home with empty's
it was well and truly worth reloading a shotgun shell then
those were the days :thumbsup: :drinks:

it would be good to get them back for hunting, even in 2 shot as a start, a push for more capacity later on would be expected
you have to remember that in vic the shooting clubs were the ones who told us to except that loosing the self loading shotguns was inevitable
there was no fight to stop the gun laws changing, the clubs were trying to stop any effect on them and what they did,
field and game were just one of the clubs happy with 2 shot under and overs so did not care if the self loaders were taken
I think now it would be a bit different as they are not scurrying around trying to protect there little patch or I should hope so
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Re: 2 shot semi auto Cat B centrefire

Post by Rod_outbak » 07 Dec 2018, 11:30 am

Yeah; I still dont see that there is a use for a 2-shot centrefire semi.

The scenario you describe would be just as quickly dealt with using a pump-action or lever-action Cat B rifle.
A nice little BLR in 22-250, or maybe a Savage 99 in .243, would do the job nicely.

To be honest, the times I've used a semi rifle(and I've used quite a few of what are now deemed Cat D), I've found the easy availability of follow-up shots has lowered my expectations on my shooting skills.
Maybe thats just me, but having another shot available with just a squeeze of the trigger, has reduced the pressure to get the shot right in the first place.
I work a that much harder with every shot, when I know I've got to cycle the bolt before I'll be able to send another round down-range.

Myself; I dont really have a problem with Cat D weapons being heavily restricted; most people dont need the rapid-fire capability.
[And I would be able to justify being eligible to possess a CatD if I wanted one]
It's not like a semi-auto centre-fire rifle is useful on the range for target work, and it's not like it's ideal for shooting clays or ducks.
Even in the event of needing quick follow-up shots, I just dont see that a pump-action or lever gun dont give you very similar results.

I've seen people who run helicopter hire businesses, who will come and hunt down dingoes and/or mobs of feral pigs for us.
They dont bother with owning a Cat D; it's less paperwork and hassle to use a Pump-action rifle like a 7615.
When DQC shot the many, MANY thousands of pigs down in the channel country a few years back, while they had ample justification to use Cat D rifles, they chose Ruger scout(.308) rifles for the work.

So, I keep coming back to the fact that I cant see a niche where a 2-shot semi-auto centrefire rifle fills a need.

I appreciate the thought experiment, and desire to 'think outside the box', but it's kinda in the same light of how if/when I get the cash to replace my elderly Landcruiser 100 series, the ideal replacement WONT be a Lambhorghini LM002...
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Re: 2 shot semi auto Cat B centrefire

Post by Ziad » 07 Dec 2018, 12:42 pm

Lamborghini do make a SUV.... just saying
Blame it on the phone auto correct
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Re: 2 shot semi auto Cat B centrefire

Post by Rod_outbak » 07 Dec 2018, 2:13 pm

Yeah, I see that.
Still cant say that it's be the smartest choice for me....

But part of me STILL says it'd be awesome to own a car with that logo on the bonnet...
[Even thought about stealing the emblem off a tractor at one stage....]
Lamboghini Urus - Twin-turbo V8 punching out 478kw, 21" rims and a top speed of 300kph...
Whats not to like??
Kinda looks like a REALLY beefed-up Prado....
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Re: 2 shot semi auto Cat B centrefire

Post by GojiraSteve » 07 Dec 2018, 3:21 pm

Rod_outbak wrote: dont really have a problem with Cat D weapons being heavily restricted; most people dont need the rapid-fire capability.
[And I would be able to justify being eligible to possess a CatD if I wanted one]
It's not like a semi-auto centre-fire rifle is useful on the range for target work,


At the risk of hijacking the thread, I do disagree with you on the above Rod. There are a number of practical shooting disciplines for which semi autos are useful if not required (3-gun being probably the most popular).
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