Discoloration in barrel / cleaning

[Wm.Traynor]

Did "pitted" equal rooted?

No. It still shot quite well. I got a silver badge with that rifle when new bit subsequently, 5 shots grouped 1.25 moa.

[sungazer]

That's copper fouling and easily removed with an ammonia based solvent. My favourite is the Robla Solo Mil 65 made by Ballistol but any copper specific solvent can be used. Clean the carbon first then then remove the copper, use a plastic brush and stainless steel jag if possible.

http://brtshooterssupply.com.au/products/robla-solo-mil-65.html

+1 for the Robla Solo Mil by Ballistol. And the stainless or aluminium jag. BRT usually have a good stock, and are very quick.

FWIW, this is MY cleaning procedure. I also know quite a number of others who use the same method and achieve the same results.
With a new barrel it can take a while for things to settle down, but you will hopefully reach a stage whereby there will be no copper fouling laid down after your shooting. Happy days.
One piece cleaning rod with bearing handle.
Bore guide - custom made for rifle, or multi-fit such as a Lyman 04045 Universal.
1) - patch out with Windex until patches come out clean. You might be surprised how many you'll need.
2) - patch bore dry.
3) - patch out with brake cleaner until patches come out clean.
4) - patch bore dry
5) - use a loose patch to wet the bore, or if you have a bore guide with a solvent port, start with a nylon bristle brush, wet it and scrub the bore. Nylon bristles are forgiving so OK to reverse the direction when just reaching muzzle.
6) - patch out bore
7) - continue with wet patches until no colour (blue/green) showing. If you use stainless, or aluminium, jags you will not get a false indication of fouling because of the solvent acting on the brass jag. Same reason for using a nylon brush. If you do use a more sturdy brass brush, no problem. Just be sure to wash it with very hot water to remove the solvent/ammonia.
8) - I usually finish with Windex to ensure that the solvents are gone, then a pass with Hoppes.
Remember to patch the bore dry before you start shooting again.

Some people think that's all a bit OCD. I'll tell you why.
With ANY new rifle, I will fire ONE shot then clean per above. One more shot and repeat. For at least five shots. Then, maybe groups of 3, 5, then 10. There comes a time that there is NO copper fouling, at which stage you can be reasonably certain that sufficient rounds have traversed the barrel and the rifling/lands are burnished to the extent that copper fouling doesn't show its head again. Sure, there will still be carbon/powder fouling to clean out, but that's a "seasoned" barrel. So much easier to clean then. Tedious to begin with, but the long term dividends are worth the effort. TMWOT.

Good advice no need to use the expensive stuff to remove the easy to get out stuff , other than I put a few wet patches down the tube as soon as I can and let it soak on the way home.

[straightshooter]

This This This This all the way to the end. An old Full-bore Armourer told me that you can pin-prick the bore at the muzzle if you reverse a bronze brush. You need the rifle in a vice. Detach the brush when clear of the muzzle. Re-attach and push it through again. Very slow and boring. Patch out after ten strokes and check for fouling In The Bore, not on a patch. It is true that the solvent, like Sweets, will react with the bronze/brass/whatever(?) in the brush so it will leave a trace on the patch. That old bloke said "One stroke for every shot fired", so you have a lot of work to do mate. Just be patient

Nonsense!
It's one thing to listen to nonsense, it's another to regurgitate it without thought.
On the expanded Moh's scale of hardness (Talc=1,Diamond=15) phosphorbronze = 4 and steel = 5 to 8.5 so there is no prospect of phosphor bronze ever scratching steel.
As for 'pin-pricking' steel the phosphorbronze would need to acquire a massive amount of kinetic energy to do so.
That just aint going to happen.

Under the copper is where the burnt carbon lies and it holds atmospheric moisture in contact with the steel.

For starters burnt carbon is known as carbon dioxide, that well known gas beloved by the greens and their fellow travellers.
The etching has nothing to do with carbon and everything to do with galvanic corrosion.
This goes some way to explain why it is more pronounced in chrome-moly than so called stainless barrels.

[SCJ429]

I use BoreTec for carbon but I am sure quite a few products work well. I have used Balistol at the range for initial cleaning and it gets a large amount of carbon. Nothing like a bit of agitation with a brush to remove the carbon at the edges of the lands. I cannot say I have seen Windex used on the line but I have used Mobil 1 as a rust preventer before.

[SCJ429]

I think you will find that diamond Is ten on The Mohs hardness scale.

Also combustion always produces carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide and water. The stuff in your barrel is none of those, it is carbon particulate. Just saying.

[straightshooter]

I think you will find that diamond Is ten on The Mohs hardness scale.

On the expanded Moh's scale of hardness......etc.

[sungazer]

Have you worked out what the point pressure is on the point of the brass when trying to lay the bristles from one direction to the other? The fact that in most cases with a new brush it just cant be done. I would bet that the pressure on the point of the bristle would be enough to mark steel without a worry. Take a brass brush that you buy at the hardware and a piece of mild steel " that is all a barrel is even the Stainless ones are softer makes them easier to machine" and brush away you will see the marks. Start bashing the brush into the steel like a hammer and look for marks. Then tell me it does no damage.

If this was the worst miss information that was on this site it would be a great site for information. You should get out and read and comment on a lot of the other posts that are just pure BS.

[Bill]

sungazer do you own a borescope ?

and whats mild steel got to do with hammer forged barrels ? is it too early for popcorn

[marksman]

shooters will work out there own regime on how to clean there bores and firearms
it's always good to get advise for what works and even older hands can learn something
just remember to lubricate your bore after cleaning to stop it corroding, especially when putting them away for a while

[bladeracer]

Have you worked out what the point pressure is on the point of the brass when trying to lay the bristles from one direction to the other? The fact that in most cases with a new brush it just cant be done. I would bet that the pressure on the point of the bristle would be enough to mark steel without a worry. Take a brass brush that you buy at the hardware and a piece of mild steel " that is all a barrel is even the Stainless ones are softer makes them easier to machine" and brush away you will see the marks. Start bashing the brush into the steel like a hammer and look for marks. Then tell me it does no damage.

If this was the worst miss information that was on this site it would be a great site for information. You should get out and read and comment on a lot of the other posts that are just pure BS.

The point pressure wouldn't be any different if the material were wood or plastic, and they won't mark steel either. Pushing the brush through lays the bristles backwards at an angle to the surface. The reason you can struggle to pull a brush backwards through a barrel is because you are trying to compress the length of each wire bristle. To be able to compress them they must be making significant friction with the surface - ie, digging into it. While it is possible somebody has made mild steel barrels in the past, barrels are usually made from at least 4140 or chrome-moly steel. Take a length of 20mm mild and a length of 20mm chrome-moly and try to wrap both around a tree.

[TassieTiger]

Based on some ppl's cleaning regiments vs my own, obviously "poor" maintenance practices - I imagine I am going to open my safe one day to find a pile of dust from whence my firm arms used to live...

[sungazer]

This is exactly what I am trying to say The reason you can struggle to pull a brush backwards through a barrel is because you are trying to compress the length of each wire bristle. To be able to compress them they must be making significant friction with the surface - ie, digging into it And trying to compress a very short piece of wire is even harder. It has a very small end surface which increases the pressure just like high heels on a wooden floor. And if you cant lay them over then you are going to be dragging them backwards pointy end first.

I wouldnt take any barrel to hit against a tree that I ever wanted to shoot straight again. They are not as hard as you think. I have worked on them in a lathe and they are pretty soft compared to other metals esp the stainless ones.

[Oldbloke]

I think you will find that diamond Is ten on The Mohs hardness scale.

Also combustion always produces carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide and water. The stuff in your barrel is none of those, it is carbon particulate. Just saying.

I also spotted those errors. U are correct
SCJ429

[bladeracer]

I wouldnt take any barrel to hit against a tree that I ever wanted to shoot straight again. They are not as hard as you think. I have worked on them in a lathe and they are pretty soft compared to other metals esp the stainless ones.

So have I, they're lovely steel for machining, but they're tougher than mild.

[SCJ429]

You need to be careful with everything you push through your barrel even of it is softer than the barrel. You can do considerable damage with a Cotton pull through after a few thousand passes. Cotten is obviously not as hard as steel.

[bladeracer]

You need to be careful with everything you push through your barrel even of it is softer than the barrel. You can do considerable damage with a Cotton pull through after a few thousand passes. Cotten is obviously not as hard as steel.

Yep, I rarely use a metal brush, and only occasionally find a nylon brush required. I prefer to let the solvent do the work and just patch it out.

[Patty93]

After working my barrel and brushing it a fair bit with a nylon brush, and allowing the sweets to soak for up to 20 minutes I don’t think I am getting anywhere with this removal. Maybe I am more paranoid now than I ever was.

I really am not sure where to go from here, I have used the sweets and put a dry patch through directly after with almost nothing coming out on the patch (including minimal moisture - probably all on the brush rather than in the barrel), then following up with a second patch which comes out looking as clean as it did going in.

I can only assume the barrel at this point is as clean as it’s going to be.

[bladeracer]

After working my barrel and brushing it a fair bit with a nylon brush, and allowing the sweets to soak for up to 20 minutes I don’t think I am getting anywhere with this removal. Maybe I am more paranoid now than I ever was.

I really am not sure where to go from here, I have used the sweets and put a dry patch through directly after with almost nothing coming out on the patch (including minimal moisture - probably all on the brush rather than in the barrel), then following up with a second patch which comes out looking as clean as it did going in.

I can only assume the barrel at this point is as clean as it’s going to be.

Just go shooting and forget about it.

[GQshayne]

After working my barrel and brushing it a fair bit with a nylon brush, and allowing the sweets to soak for up to 20 minutes I don’t think I am getting anywhere with this removal. Maybe I am more paranoid now than I ever was.

I really am not sure where to go from here, I have used the sweets and put a dry patch through directly after with almost nothing coming out on the patch (including minimal moisture - probably all on the brush rather than in the barrel), then following up with a second patch which comes out looking as clean as it did going in.

I can only assume the barrel at this point is as clean as it’s going to be.

I have found that one of the specialist copper removers, with a nylon brush, works better than the old Sweets. I use Boretech, and reckon it works very well. A while back I was at a gunsmith, and asked what he used. Boretch copper remover.